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Nature of Victoria's dark streaks, swept clean, deposited, or other?
dvandorn
post Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
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Now that we're finally about to do a detailed inspection of the darkest of the dark streaks emanating from the north-northeast portion of the crater rim, it's time for final speculations before we know the truth of the matter.

I'm in the clean-sweep camp. The large-scale orbital observations make these streaks appear almost definitely of aeolian origin -- the manner in which the streaks feather along the edges, and the way in which they curve off as they extend out from the crater, are all consistent with wind/ground interactions.

Observations of the lighter, western streak seem to show more visible concretions right up on the surface. If this holds true of the darker streak, I think that proves the clean-sweep theory.

Think of it this way -- if you packed pebbles and dry dust as a pavement and then let the wind strip away at this surface, the dust would blow off and the pebbles would remain. What dust remained would sit in the lee of the pebbles.

This seems to be exactly what we're seeing in the first dark streak -- the lighter soil component has been blown away entirely, and the darker component (probably eroded concretion material) has been mostly blown away but its remnants sit in the lee of the concretions.

I would expect that any depositional streak would appear as dust or fine-grained soils which cover over the materials we see on the surface outside of the streaks. That's *not* what we're seeing.

In addition, I'd have to treat any suggestion that the blueberries themselves are being blown out of the crater to form the streaks with an awful lot of skepticism. Martian winds aren't strong enough to move the relatively large-and-heavy concretions along level ground -- it would be absolutely impossible for these thin-air winds to have blown them entirely out of the crater and up to a crater diameter's distance away.

Now, if the MIs in the darker streak show that dark dust is consistently filleted on the upwind side of the concretions, and shadowed with less dust downwind of the concretions, *that* would be an indication that the streaks are depositional. But, so far, that's not what we're seeing.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Shaka
post Apr 3 2007, 10:36 PM
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I've searched in vain for a nice clear discussion (with diagrams) of the effect on prevailing winds by impact craters. No doubt the effects would vary significantly with a wide assortment of variables: The diameter and depth of the crater, the height of the rim, its profile and planview shape, the prevailing wind direction and speed, its seasonal and longer term variations, the sediment substrate, its grain sizes, density etc. etc.
Somebody should write one. It's not what I would term a "no-brainer" (as the beacon was wink.gif ), but a lot of brain power has already been devoted to the issue (Search at adsabs.harvard.edu for crater wind trails Mars .)
There is a fairly broad consensus that wind streaks are downwind of the crater, that they are light or dark in albedo depending whether they are depositional or erosional in nature, that one crater can produce both types of tail, and that the local wind speed across the surface will govern whether deposition or erosion of dust occurs. We may be confident of the prevailing winds in this area of Meridiani (and there are lots of MSSS images showing dark trails extending NNW from Meridiani craters, but we know much less about what the unique topography of Victoria Crater (no raised rim, cape-and-bay planview) will do to the velocities of those winds. Both the pattern of ripples on the bottom, and the traces of trails around the crater show that the wind patterns are complex over the short to medium term.

What we learn here at VC will comprise an important contribution to the field.


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Posts in this topic
- dvandorn   Nature of Victoria's dark streaks   Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
- - BrianL   Ooh, I love adding my completely geologically untr...   Apr 3 2007, 06:20 PM
- - Shaka   I certainly hope the plan codes show an MI sequenc...   Apr 3 2007, 07:23 PM
- - imipak   QUOTE (BrianL @ Apr 3 2007, 07:20 PM) Ooh...   Apr 3 2007, 08:02 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   This one's a no-brainer. The dark streaks are...   Apr 3 2007, 08:07 PM
- - Juramike   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2007, 01:12 PM) I...   Apr 3 2007, 08:35 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE What do you think is particularly special ab...   Apr 3 2007, 09:03 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (helvick @ Apr 3 2007, 09:03 PM) Li...   Apr 3 2007, 09:47 PM
- - Juramike   I'll buy that. So...the faster windspeeds are...   Apr 3 2007, 09:18 PM
- - fredk   I've been leaning into the dark deposit camp. ...   Apr 3 2007, 09:30 PM
- - helvick   I think it can be argued either way. _If_ cleaning...   Apr 3 2007, 09:56 PM
- - fredk   There was the dark dust piled up beside rocks on t...   Apr 3 2007, 10:05 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   I don't buy it completely, because of the prep...   Apr 3 2007, 10:08 PM
- - Juramike   Hmmm. Both very good hypotheses. There's no ...   Apr 3 2007, 10:14 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   - There IS dark matterial at the base of the cliff...   Apr 3 2007, 10:27 PM
- - Shaka   I've searched in vain for a nice clear discuss...   Apr 3 2007, 10:36 PM
- - atomoid   Since the dark streaks only seem to be emanating f...   Apr 4 2007, 01:08 AM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 3 2007, 03:08 PM) Si...   Apr 4 2007, 02:21 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 4 2007, 02:21 AM) Why ...   Apr 4 2007, 03:13 AM
- - MarsIsImportant   Notice how the whole area north and east of Victor...   Apr 4 2007, 03:31 AM
- - CosmicRocker   The fun thing about this discussion is that I thin...   Apr 4 2007, 05:27 AM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 4 2007, 12:27 A...   Apr 4 2007, 01:06 PM
- - antoniseb   I'm in the deposit camp (as opposed to clean s...   Apr 4 2007, 02:24 PM
|- - Juramike   I agree with both Antoniseb and MarsIsImportant. ...   Apr 4 2007, 03:01 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Impact deposit could very well be part of the expl...   Apr 4 2007, 02:46 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Apr 4 2007, 02:4...   Apr 4 2007, 05:59 PM
- - CosmicRocker   MII: You really can't compare the rippled pla...   Apr 4 2007, 02:50 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 4 2007, 09:50 A...   Apr 4 2007, 03:07 PM
- - fredk   Antoniseb makes a good point. I've thought th...   Apr 4 2007, 05:37 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Well then, my first guess was correct. The specks...   Apr 4 2007, 06:12 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Well, the color of the depositional dust would dep...   Apr 4 2007, 06:56 PM
- - MarsIsImportant   Does anybody know what day this image was taken? ...   Apr 4 2007, 09:37 PM
- - fredk   As I just posted, that's 1135, between streaks...   Apr 4 2007, 09:53 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 4 2007, 04:53 PM) As I...   Apr 4 2007, 11:35 PM
- - atomoid   Ever notice how the only area in Victoria with the...   Apr 4 2007, 10:05 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 4 2007, 05:05 PM) Ev...   Apr 4 2007, 11:30 PM
- - Steve   I just wonder if a CRISM image wouldn't tell u...   Apr 5 2007, 01:29 AM
- - Jeff7   Put me in the deposit camp. El Dorado was also a d...   Apr 5 2007, 03:10 AM
- - fredk   Just a reminder to people (like myself!) who t...   Apr 5 2007, 05:08 AM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 4 2007, 09:08 PM) Just...   Apr 5 2007, 11:36 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, isn't it? I've pl...   Apr 5 2007, 06:57 AM
- - Edward Schmitz   It doesn't strike me as possible to have such ...   Apr 5 2007, 04:41 PM
- - CosmicRocker   I should apologize up front for posting a montage ...   Apr 5 2007, 07:18 PM
- - Shaka   That's a nice start at organizing the data for...   Apr 5 2007, 07:31 PM
- - fredk   Thanks for the post, Rocker. I think it's ver...   Apr 5 2007, 07:35 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's right, guys. I wasn't trying to sa...   Apr 5 2007, 08:14 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 5 2007, 03:14 P...   Apr 5 2007, 09:42 PM
- - fredk   That image I posted was straight from this MOC ima...   Apr 6 2007, 12:23 AM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, fredk. If I had looked at...   Apr 6 2007, 07:11 AM
- - fredk   To add one more layer of complexity, here's an...   Apr 6 2007, 04:28 PM
- - fredk   Welcome to the Darkness! Compare tosol...   Apr 6 2007, 04:45 PM
|- - MarsIsImportant   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 6 2007, 11:45 AM) Welc...   Apr 6 2007, 04:58 PM
- - Juramike   Thank you very much Cosmic Rocker! That monta...   Apr 6 2007, 06:19 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (Juramike @ Apr 6 2007, 11:19 AM) L...   Apr 6 2007, 08:10 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 6 2007, 04:10...   Apr 6 2007, 08:28 PM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (Juramike @ Apr 6 2007, 12:28 PM) W...   Apr 7 2007, 12:02 AM
- - Stu   (a hand goes up hesitatantly at the back of the cl...   Apr 6 2007, 06:41 PM
- - Juramike   [Lecturer's eyes glaze over, turns and stares...   Apr 6 2007, 07:30 PM
- - Juramike   Here is what might be a sequence of events leading...   Apr 6 2007, 07:48 PM
- - fredk   While we wait for MIs, here are two hazcam views, ...   Apr 7 2007, 03:25 AM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 6 2007, 09:25 PM) On s...   Apr 7 2007, 10:50 AM
|- - BrianL   QUOTE (antoniseb @ Apr 7 2007, 04:50 AM) ...   Apr 7 2007, 06:00 PM
- - CosmicRocker   It's tough, fredk. The hazcams, navcams, and ...   Apr 7 2007, 07:03 AM
- - Juramike   It looks like the blueberry count is approximately...   Apr 7 2007, 07:25 PM
- - CosmicRocker   BrianL: Yeah, I think the berries are mostly ligh...   Apr 8 2007, 04:05 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 04:05 A...   Apr 8 2007, 10:33 PM
- - Stu   Just to clarify my own thoughts here... What I th...   Apr 8 2007, 09:53 AM
- - fredk   Dark streak MIs are in: http://qt.exploratorium.ed...   Apr 8 2007, 06:14 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 08:14 AM) It...   Apr 8 2007, 06:35 PM
- - dvandorn   Boy, it really is hard to tell from these two MIs,...   Apr 8 2007, 06:40 PM
- - Shaka   Hold onto your hat, Oppy, so it doesn't blow a...   Apr 8 2007, 06:45 PM
- - Floyd   I think it is deposition. Unlike most other MI (I ...   Apr 8 2007, 06:49 PM
- - fredk   Floyd scooped me, I was just about to post this im...   Apr 8 2007, 07:07 PM
- - Shaka   It's like this, guys, dusty surfaces scatter i...   Apr 8 2007, 07:50 PM
|- - fredk   I don't think anyone can argue with the fact t...   Apr 8 2007, 08:20 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 8 2007, 03:50 PM) Basi...   Apr 9 2007, 03:41 PM
- - Shaka   Sorry, Freddo, it will take a lot more data than t...   Apr 8 2007, 08:47 PM
- - CosmicRocker   That's interesting, fredk. I meant to eventua...   Apr 8 2007, 11:41 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 11:41 P...   Apr 9 2007, 12:39 AM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 08:39 PM) I ha...   Apr 9 2007, 04:00 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 8 2007, 04:41 P...   Apr 9 2007, 05:41 PM
- - Shaka   The next best thing to a windsock is our trusty RA...   Apr 8 2007, 11:50 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 8 2007, 11:50 PM) (Of ...   Apr 9 2007, 12:49 AM
- - Floyd   I agree with fredk--I think it is deposition and t...   Apr 9 2007, 01:28 AM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 8 2007, 07:39 PM) I ha...   Apr 9 2007, 05:51 AM
- - Shaka   In all fairness, Freddo, it was you who first anno...   Apr 9 2007, 06:39 AM
- - Juramike   "Dig we must."   Apr 9 2007, 02:22 PM
- - fredk   Does anyone know if El Dorado was thought to be de...   Apr 9 2007, 05:28 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 9 2007, 07:28 AM) Does...   Apr 9 2007, 07:54 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 9 2007, 07:54 PM) Both...   Apr 9 2007, 11:19 PM
- - Floyd   Seems like the 1139 berries are more deeply buried...   Apr 9 2007, 06:26 PM
- - Juramike   Assuming that the dark fine grains are burying the...   Apr 9 2007, 06:50 PM
- - Juramike   Here is a side by side comparison of two wheel ima...   Apr 9 2007, 07:36 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE I'm still waiting to see a Pancam shot w...   Apr 9 2007, 08:15 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 9 2007, 10:15...   Apr 9 2007, 08:38 PM
|- - WindyT   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 9 2007, 08:15...   Apr 9 2007, 09:21 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   Is it your assertion that because we haven't s...   Apr 9 2007, 09:00 PM
- - Juramike   I'm wondering about the composition of the dar...   Apr 9 2007, 09:39 PM
- - fredk   RE: Nature of Victoria's dark streaks   Apr 9 2007, 11:34 PM
- - Shaka   You guys trying to test my religious convictions? ...   Apr 10 2007, 01:06 AM
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