Pluto Surface Observations 3: NH Post-Encounter Phase, 1 Feb 2016- TBD |
Pluto Surface Observations 3: NH Post-Encounter Phase, 1 Feb 2016- TBD |
May 24 2018, 04:49 PM
Post
#121
|
|
Director of Galilean Photography Group: Members Posts: 896 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 93 |
Wow, that's practically...uh, dense? Definitely enough for lots of interesting things to happen!
edit: Aw man, the dust devil emoticon is broken. Can we get that fixed? Admin- Yep! -------------------- Space Enthusiast Richard Hendricks
-- "The engineers, as usual, made a tremendous fuss. Again as usual, they did the job in half the time they had dismissed as being absolutely impossible." --Rescue Party, Arthur C Clarke Mother Nature is the final inspector of all quality. |
|
|
May 24 2018, 11:51 PM
Post
#122
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 24-July 15 Member No.: 7619 |
Wow, that's practically...uh, dense? Definitely enough for lots of interesting things to happen! d: Wow. 18-280 millibars? So, thats 3x Mars (low estimate), or roughly equal to the top of mount everest (high estimate). |
|
|
May 25 2018, 01:34 AM
Post
#123
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2084 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
How far would the atmosphere have extended in scale height beyond the modern level? Perhaps the tholins of Mordor Macula on Charon were all deposited during this period? Or could the molecules have jumped the gap throughout Pluto's history?
|
|
|
May 25 2018, 02:00 AM
Post
#124
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 714 Joined: 3-January 08 Member No.: 3995 |
Our paper sets a limit near a few hundred millibars for Pluto. Thank you Alan. I look forward to reading the paper when I can find sufficient time. As others have mentioned here, a few hundred millibars could allow for many interesting processes to potentially occur on the surface. |
|
|
May 25 2018, 02:48 PM
Post
#125
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Rome - Italy Member No.: 7482 |
QUOTE I do not know if this is the right place. I watched this Pluto area. What is these like rivers? nitrogen ice flows? http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&id=42956 Sputnik planum could be in the past an exposed ocean of liquid Nitrogen as is the case with Titan\'s methane oceans? can a planet or dwarf planet exist with an exposed ocean of liquid nitrogen? how big must a planet be to have a liquid nitrogen ocean?? Grazie QUOTE Back in 2011, there was a suggestion that rivers of liquid nitrogen might be stable on Pluto http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakda.../2011/3182.html That was followed up by 2016 announcements that when Pluto\'s orbit and rotation are just right, Pluto\'s atmosphere should support an atmosphere thick enough for liquid nitrogen to flow. http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...mp;#entry229510 That means surface temperatures must be fluctuating enough to mess with the nitrogen on Pluto’s surface, driving it from a frozen solid into a gas. And sometimes, the temperature and pressure occasionally rise high enough for liquid nitrogen to flow on the surface. The last time temperatures were sufficiently high to melt nitrogen was around 800,000 years ago, when Pluto’s orbital alignment led to its most extreme warm climate, says MIT’s Richard Binzel. [/list] To be rivers and lakes of Nitrogen there must be a cycle of Nitrogen like that of Methane on Titan? So there was a dense atmosphere with clouds and rains of nitrogen over Pluto? Sputnick planum was a surface liquid nitrogen ocean that is frozen today? Chemistry and physics manage to create surprising little worlds, like Titan and Pluto. We find many more features of movement and geological activity in cold worlds than in hot worlds. When I look at Pluto I see the characteristics of a great world .. I am surprised when I remember that he is smaller than our Moon. I like to think that the cold does not give life, but the too cold, inconceivable, start strange processes. |
|
|
May 25 2018, 04:06 PM
Post
#126
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 24-July 15 Member No.: 7619 |
So there was a dense atmosphere with clouds and rains of nitrogen over Pluto? Sputnick planum was a surface liquid nitrogen ocean that is frozen today? Clouds and rain, probably. Dense is relative 18-280 millibars might be considered dense in astronomic terms, but humans need a pressure suit (IIRC) below ~50 millibars or your body temperature boils you blood into vapor. As to Sputnick planum, I tried a basic estimates (e.g. an order of magnitude) that the amount of nitrogen locked up as ice in sputnick planum seems to be roughly equivalent to the amount of nitrogen that a warm period Pluto would need for an atmosphere to be in thermal equilibrium. If the real scientists estimates are 18-280 millibars, then I'll defer to them that there is enough near surface N2 to support a 280 millibar atmosphere. |
|
|
May 25 2018, 04:16 PM
Post
#127
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Rome - Italy Member No.: 7482 |
Clouds and rain, probably. Dense is relative 18-280 millibars might be considered dense in astronomic terms, but humans need a pressure suit (IIRC) below ~50 millibars or your body temperature boils you blood into vapor. As to Sputnick planum, I tried a basic estimates (e.g. an order of magnitude) that the amount of nitrogen locked up as ice in sputnick planum seems to be roughly equivalent to the amount of nitrogen that a warm period Pluto would need for an atmosphere to be in thermal equilibrium. If the real scientists estimates are 18-280 millibars, then I'll defer to them that there is enough near surface N2 to support a 280 millibar atmosphere. Thanks hschirmer! |
|
|
Jun 1 2018, 11:55 PM
Post
#128
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 1129 |
Methane ice dunes on Pluto
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/992 I've been searching for estimates of the surface area extent of the dunes and their heights, as I'd like to compare to the dune coverage on Venus, Earth, Mars, and Titan. Does anyone have that information or want to take a guess? Also, this discovery makes me even more eager to see Triton in higher resolution... |
|
|
Jul 3 2018, 05:17 AM
Post
#129
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 24-August 07 Member No.: 3405 |
Methane ice dunes on Pluto http://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/992 I've been searching for estimates of the surface area extent of the dunes and their heights, as I'd like to compare to the dune coverage on Venus, Earth, Mars, and Titan. Does anyone have that information or want to take a guess? Also, this discovery makes me even more eager to see Triton in higher resolution... Will E-ELT be able to resolve the chevrons on Miranda, geysers on Triton, etc? |
|
|
Jul 9 2018, 09:14 PM
Post
#130
|
|
Director of Galilean Photography Group: Members Posts: 896 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 93 |
Per their FAQ, their expected resolution with adaptive optics is 5 milliarcseconds, which is ~2.4E-8 Radians.
radians * distance = ~resolution Uranus distance resolution ~70 km Neptune distance resolution ~110 km Pluto distance resolution ~143 km So I think E-ELT would be able to resolve ~7 pixels on Miranda. Triton is 2,700 km wide, so it would get ~24 pixels. -------------------- Space Enthusiast Richard Hendricks
-- "The engineers, as usual, made a tremendous fuss. Again as usual, they did the job in half the time they had dismissed as being absolutely impossible." --Rescue Party, Arthur C Clarke Mother Nature is the final inspector of all quality. |
|
|
Jul 14 2018, 02:02 PM
Post
#131
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 18-October 15 From: Russia Member No.: 7822 |
Happy Anniversary, New Horizons!
Pluto and its Elliot Crater (Simulated perspective view) Pluto's Hayabusa Terra (Simulated perspective view) Pluto's Tartarus Dorsa region (Simulated perspective view) Pluto's Tenzing Montes at Twilight (Simulated perspective view) -------------------- |
|
|
Jul 14 2018, 02:28 PM
Post
#132
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2084 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Incredible work! Like we're really there!
The last one is especially interesting, considering Earth and the Moon transited the Sun as seen from Pluto just last week.... won't happened again for a century and a half. We certainly won't have better views for a long time. |
|
|
Jul 14 2018, 08:15 PM
Post
#133
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 16-May 06 From: Geneva, Switzerland Member No.: 773 |
Two amazing articles about the cartography and topography of Pluto and Charon in Icarus journal, by Paul Schenck et al.
Pluto: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic...019103517306024 Charon: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic...019103517306565 A lot of data, many illustrations and many discoveries. Thank you for this great work Paul. Fantastic as usual ! Regards, Marc. |
|
|
Jul 15 2018, 05:31 AM
Post
#134
|
|
Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10157 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
I was planning to draw attention to those papers as well. It's true, they are amazing. The thing I keep thinking of is how far ahead we are now compared with Voyager 2's flyby of Neptune and Triton. In some ways the Neptune and Pluto systems are similar (not in sizes but in number of targets) and the fast flybys were similar in timing, but the volume and quality of data returned from Pluto is so far ahead of the older mission. It just shows what even a single fast flyby of either of the Ice Giants could accomplish with modern instruments.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
|
|
Jul 15 2018, 12:18 PM
Post
#135
|
|
Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
I was planning to draw attention to those papers as well. It's true, they are amazing. The thing I keep thinking of is how far ahead we are now compared with Voyager 2's flyby of Neptune and Triton. In some ways the Neptune and Pluto systems are similar (not in sizes but in number of targets) and the fast flybys were similar in timing, but the volume and quality of data returned from Pluto is so far ahead of the older mission. It just shows what even a single fast flyby of either of the Ice Giants could accomplish with modern instruments. Phil It's especially evident when you see how many of the Voyager images smeared or missed. Meanwhile, I can't think of an unintentionally smeared New Horizons image (except for the occasional super-long exposure, but even then it's pretty steady). -------------------- |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 4th May 2024 - 12:45 PM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |