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NASA Images Suggest Water Still Flows on Mars
Nix
post Dec 6 2006, 09:21 PM
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I'm very excited with these new foundings, also on the new impact features. ohmy.gif

A quick search for other light-toned areas associated with gullies turned up this image; there is such an area in the big crater near the middle of the image.

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/s05_s10/fu...10/S1001717.gif

The hunt is open.. rolleyes.gif

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Guest_Analyst_*
post Dec 6 2006, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Dec 6 2006, 08:16 PM) *
You mean recent, not frequent, right?


English is not my native language. I mean the water is not flowing for long periods of time (like a river), but only for short periods (maybe hours), but again and again. AND it's been recent.

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imipak
post Dec 6 2006, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (Stu @ Dec 6 2006, 08:40 PM) *
"Interesting"?

blink.gif

"INTERESTING?"

blink.gif blink.gif huh.gif blink.gif huh.gif


I concur. It is interesting; it demonstrated the usefulness of extended missions (and launching long-lived hardware), demonstrated again the power of serendipity and a sharp pair of eyes (Edgett/Malin appear to be saying the first new crater was spotted visually in a wide-angle context image, ie without comparison to the previous image of the same area!) and adds a nice detail to the current state of knowledge about sub-surface fluids. It probably helps eliminate up a couple of alternative explanations for the gullies (and if not, HiRISE et al will do so.) (Tho' AFAIK CO2 ice is still a possibility?) But exciting? More so than, say, the MER EDL, or Opportunity's arriving at Victoria Crater? I confess I was mildly excited when I heard the first rumours of a major NASA announcement, but having seen the names listed (and read this thread), the actual news was pretty much as expected. Spotting new craters is MORE exciting, to me, and I think will be seen to be a more significant single discovery in 10 years' time.

Moreover, I heard someone from the Beagle team interviewed on Radio 4 ("PM"), and he made a point of saying "yes, I know we've had these same stories about "water on Mars!!" every couple of years for the last decade." He was just getting his retaliation in first - I predict comedians (funny and otherwise) will be pointing that out before Saturday morning.

However, liquid flowing down the gullies shouldn't be news to anyone who's been paying attention. The original paper revealing the gullies already made it clear that they were clearly relatively recent features, and it is not that surprising that one or two would trickle for a minute or two once or twice a decade.

I think the image, attractive though it is, looks more like the Three Gorges than Mars smile.gif From what I remember of the original paper, if you were there on the surface when one of these things was active you'd see a small, narrow strip of dirty water running straight down the slope, subliming as it went; not bursting out under enormous pressure and spraying tens of feet out into the air... the gully would cut much more deeply into the crater wall if it were that violent. I also wonder about the concentration of any putative salts... if it were very high, would that affect the flow characteristics of the water?

Right, I'm off to find another roaring fire to drape my wet blanket over smile.gif


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Stu
post Dec 6 2006, 09:47 PM
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sigh... okay... so this isn't brand new "news", we all suspected what was going on, and little voices in our heads have been saying "water carved" ever since the first gullies were spotted... and yes, that image is over-dramatised, a real gully"burst" wouldn't be anything like as violent... and no, this wasn't as heart-pumpingly exciting as Spirit's EDL or Oppy's triumphant, knackered roll up to the rim of Victoria.... but come ON people!!! WATER ON MARS!!!! I refuse to let anyone spoil this night for me, not after I've longed for this news for so long. Get your dirty wet blanket away from my fire! I'm going to spend the night sitting by it under the stars, watching the golden sparks rise into the air, imagining each one is Mars, complete with gullies of steaming, silver-scaled water... biggrin.gif


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RichardLeis
post Dec 6 2006, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 6 2006, 01:48 PM) *
I'm not tuvas. I'm not a vulcan, either, I'm an Ionian, and red-hot, ultramafic lava flows through my veins... My reaction was that this news was interesting and that I wanted to see those features in HiRISE images. But, no, I didn't get all that excited. Maybe it is my outer planets bias, but flowing, boiling acidic water just isn't as exciting as huge lava flows on Io, the Earth-like geology of Titan, the geysers of Triton, or I dare say, the ocean on Europa.


Weird. To me, they are all equally as exciting (including the geysers on Enceladus). Whatever floats our boats, I guess smile.gif

The solar system is wonderfully active, H20 plays a huge role everywhere, and we have a new foundation for this incredible revolution in planetary science.

Hats off to Mars Global Surveyor and team! What a history!
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RichardLeis
post Dec 6 2006, 09:58 PM
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Is the HiRISE camera going to take images of these areas? Do people really need to ask that!? smile.gif The whole array of MRO's tools will be used, no doubt.
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climber
post Dec 6 2006, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE (Stu @ Dec 6 2006, 10:47 PM) *
sigh... okay... so this isn't brand new "news", we all suspected what was going on, and little voices in our heads have been saying "water carved" ever since the first gullies were spotted... and yes, that image is over-dramatised, a real gully"burst" wouldn't be anything like as violent... and no, this wasn't as heart-pumpingly exciting as Spirit's EDL or Oppy's triumphant, knackered roll up to the rim of Victoria.... but come ON people!!! WATER ON MARS!!!! I refuse to let anyone spoil this night for me, not after I've longed for this news for so long. Get your dirty wet blanket away from my fire! I'm going to spend the night sitting by it under the stars, watching the golden sparks rise into the air, imagining each one is Mars, complete with gullies of steaming, silver-scaled water... biggrin.gif

I'm on your side Stugully! Come on Far Rimers, Far Dreamers, wake up, we need your help. Where are you Dan?
Sorry Near Blanketers I feel Water less letal than projectiles forming craters. I was there when they said "water is flowing on Mars today", I was listening, there's NO doubt : T-O-D-A-Y, they said. I'm gona have a (salty) bath right away and T-O-D-A-Y


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mhoward
post Dec 6 2006, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (RichardLeis @ Dec 6 2006, 09:58 PM) *
Is the HiRISE camera going to take images of these areas? Do people really need to ask that!? smile.gif The whole array of MRO's tools will be used, no doubt.


There was never much question in *my* mind on that, nor probably in anyone's at this point smile.gif

Fantastic images... hats off to MGS indeed.
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ngunn
post Dec 6 2006, 10:13 PM
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Thanks, Stu and climber for the pictures direct, much appreciated as the links are still "server not found" for me. I was able to scan some of the news releases though. I believe someone in the know said that on the evidence the probability of recent aqueous flow is 'high but not very high'. From most of the news reports you would think the certainty had been demonstrated. The trick now will be to catch one of these things moving on the scale of seconds or minutes - the maximum time one can imagine aqueous liquid surviving on the surface.
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JonClarke
post Dec 6 2006, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 6 2006, 08:48 PM) *
I'm not tuvas. I'm not a vulcan, either, I'm an Ionian, and red-hot, ultramafic lava flows through my veins... My reaction was that this news was interesting and that I wanted to see those features in HiRISE images. But, no, I didn't get all that excited. Maybe it is my outer planets bias, but flowing, boiling acidic water just isn't as exciting as huge lava flows on Io, the Earth-like geology of Titan, the geysers of Triton, or I dare say, the ocean on Europa.


Bah! Seen one komatiite, you seen them all. I've seen thousands. wink.gif

Jon
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post Dec 6 2006, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (ngunn @ Dec 6 2006, 12:13 PM) *
Thanks, Stu and climber for the pictures direct, much appreciated as the links are still "server not found" for me.

That's weird. I'm not having any problems loading and re-loading the MSSS pages.
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deglr6328
post Dec 6 2006, 10:29 PM
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It should be noted that IF this is water (I want to see NIR spectra with a niiiiiice OH stretch absorption peak right at 1.5 microns before I totally discount liquid CO2) then the conditions are perfect for lyophilization of bacteria etc. in the water as it escapes the ice dam and vaporizes/freezes. This would be THEE ideal spot to collect samples for a return analysis.
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post Dec 6 2006, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Dec 6 2006, 07:57 AM) *
EDIT: And I believe the paper will be published in the December 8, 2006, issue of Science.

I believe the links below won't go active until tomorrow, unless one has special access during the embargo. In any event, here are the references to the paper and a related news article in the same issue:

Present-Day Impact Cratering Rate and Contemporary Gully Activity on Mars
Michael C. Malin, Kenneth S. Edgett, Liliya V. Posiolova, Shawn M. McColley, and Eldar Z. Noe Dobrea
Science 314, 1573-1577 (2006)
Abstract
Full Text
Supporting Online Material

Richard Kerr's accompanying "News of the Week" article: "Mars Orbiter's Swan Song: The Red Planet Is A-Changin'"

This post has been edited by AlexBlackwell: Dec 6 2006, 10:37 PM
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Nirgal
post Dec 6 2006, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (Stu @ Dec 6 2006, 10:10 PM) *
...
That "flowing, boiling acidic" water might be thick with microbes all shouting "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" as they fly through the air... admittedly mere seconds before dying a horrible death, but hey... wink.gif
...


laugh.gif *LOL*
Stu, I just loooooooove that refreshing, vivid pictorial writing style of yours biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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tuvas
post Dec 6 2006, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (volcanopele @ Dec 6 2006, 01:48 PM) *
I'm not tuvas. I'm not a vulcan, either, I'm an Ionian, and red-hot, ultramafic lava flows through my veins... My reaction was that this news was interesting and that I wanted to see those features in HiRISE images. But, no, I didn't get all that excited. Maybe it is my outer planets bias, but flowing, boiling acidic water just isn't as exciting as huge lava flows on Io, the Earth-like geology of Titan, the geysers of Triton, or I dare say, the ocean on Europa.

EDIT: I forgot Enceladus' geysers, how silly of me ohmy.gif


Jason, come on now, this has to rank there with liquid water being identified at Europa as one of the most exciting discoveries in the Solar System!
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