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Phoenix Site
remcook
post Jan 22 2005, 01:21 PM
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did it got mentioned that the site was launched last week or so?


http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM
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Yes, the problem with this one (as with Polar Lander, had it succeeded) is the inevitable coming of the polar night. But as for its lifetime not being long enough: it will achieve 90% of its official science goals in 2 months, for Heaven's sake -- with the rest (weather data) being achieved during the next 3 months.

And to say that it's not scientifically worthwhile is nonsense. While the MERs explored Mars horizontally, this one will explore it vertically by being the first subsurface mission -- and also the very first examination of a Martian environment water-rich enough to be potentially habitable by current-day microbes. (Given its mass spectrometer's ability to detect methane and surface organics, it's also the first potentially biological Mars mission since Viking.) Despite all the official claims about the selection of the first Scout mission being "fully competitive", the word at the first Mars Strategic Roadmap meeting was that NASA HQ virtually demanded this mission precisely because it fits in so well with the central thread of Mars exploration -- and does so at minimum price by using an already-built spacecraft. To quote Bette Davis, don't ask for the Moon when you have the stars.
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tedstryk
post Aug 25 2005, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM)
And to say that it's not scientifically worthwhile is nonsense.  While the MERs explored Mars horizontally, this one will explore it vertically by being the first subsurface mission -- and also the very first examination of a Martian environment water-rich enough to be potentially habitable by current-day microbes.  (Given its mass spectrometer's ability to detect methane and surface organics, it's also the first potentially biological Mars mission since Viking.)  Despite all the official claims about the selection of the first Scout mission being "fully competitive", the word at the first Mars Strategic Roadmap meeting was that NASA HQ virtually demanded this mission precisely because it fits in so well with the central thread of Mars exploration -- and does so at minimum price by using an already-built spacecraft.  To quote Bette Davis, don't ask for the Moon when you have the stars.
*

To be fair, I think this was good manipulation. Using already designed instruments on an already built lander allows a mission to fly for less than it would have cost (yes, if you calculate the true total cost you would count original develoment, but it isn't like the already spent money can be reallocated) that will provide valuble science. The competing Urey proposal, while interesting, had, from what I have read, a high probablility of an even more severe busting of the cost cap.

Deception: I have to strongly disagree. This will be an essential science mission. The people on this board, myself included, have a strong bias towards image data because we like to work with it - and in that sense, a rover would be much more appealing. But in terms of science, I am really glad this mission is going to fly (and, as has been said so well by others, it will, in addition to trench imagery and a pan of some semi-polar terrain for the first time, the highest resolution imagery of the martian surface to date, thanks to its microscopes.


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- remcook   Phoenix Site   Jan 22 2005, 01:21 PM
- - tedstryk   Thanks for the link! This is much better than ...   Jan 22 2005, 01:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Indeed it is -- although the other previous one ( ...   Jan 22 2005, 07:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   From Doug Lombardi: "We have made a slight ...   Feb 2 2005, 02:01 AM
- - Gsnorgathon   Bruce - Do you know if there are any plans for fl...   Feb 2 2005, 07:29 AM
- - YesRushGen   Regarding the patchyness of the ice mantle, they s...   Feb 2 2005, 03:40 PM
- - tedstryk   The payload wouldn't survive a MER landing. A...   Feb 2 2005, 03:46 PM
- - djellison   QUOTE (YesRushGen @ Feb 2 2005, 03:40 PM)The ...   Feb 2 2005, 03:51 PM
- - TheChemist   I have much appreciated the MERs after reading the...   Feb 2 2005, 05:16 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   In reply to Gsnorgathon: I believe (although I...   Feb 5 2005, 09:26 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   Thanks, Bruce. Guess we'll just have to be pat...   Feb 6 2005, 12:52 AM
- - tedstryk   Some Phoenix SSI info (courtesy the SSI team). Th...   Feb 7 2005, 06:05 AM
- - RedSky   I ran across this page of the Phoenix landing anim...   Aug 24 2005, 05:00 AM
|- - helvick   That link led me to dig around on the site a bit a...   Aug 24 2005, 06:08 PM
|- - Redstone   QUOTE (RedSky @ Aug 24 2005, 05:00 AM)I ran a...   Aug 24 2005, 08:17 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I'm very skeptical of that part about the land...   Aug 25 2005, 12:17 AM
- - Decepticon   The lander will only last a few months!? I fi...   Aug 25 2005, 01:08 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Aug 25 2005, 01:08 AM)The...   Aug 25 2005, 03:49 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Aug 25 2005, 01:49 PM)Ph...   Aug 25 2005, 04:38 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Aug 25 2005, 04:38 AM)It...   Aug 25 2005, 11:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yes, the problem with this one (as with Polar Land...   Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM)An...   Aug 25 2005, 11:33 PM
- - edstrick   I really wish it were possible to put minimal craw...   Aug 25 2005, 08:29 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (edstrick @ Aug 25 2005, 09:29 AM)That ...   Aug 25 2005, 09:49 AM
- - akuo   But Phoenix has a real microscope and even an atom...   Aug 25 2005, 09:02 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Actually, there is one real reason to wish it had ...   Aug 25 2005, 08:25 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 25 2005, 08:25 PM)Ac...   Aug 26 2005, 07:33 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Aug 26 2005, 07:33 AM)Is...   Aug 26 2005, 07:47 AM
- - Decepticon   Another issue I have is the depth that the lander ...   Aug 26 2005, 12:21 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Aug 26 2005, 12:21 AM)Ano...   Aug 26 2005, 12:52 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep -- and I can tell you they're virtually ce...   Aug 26 2005, 03:04 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've been told flatly by Peter Smith: can...   Aug 26 2005, 01:01 PM
|- - tedstryk   Again I will say, lets be honest. We are image ju...   Aug 26 2005, 02:06 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Aug 26 2005, 03:06 PM)Again...   Aug 26 2005, 10:36 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Imagine if Phoenix had set down where Opportunity ...   Aug 26 2005, 10:47 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (paxdan @ Aug 26 2005, 11:36 PM)...but ...   Aug 26 2005, 11:17 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (helvick @ Aug 26 2005, 04:17 PM)As one...   Aug 27 2005, 12:19 AM
- - gpurcell   I agree..but I also think we're going to find ...   Aug 26 2005, 02:50 PM
- - Decepticon   Can phoenix be put into Hibernation during the win...   Aug 26 2005, 02:54 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   I dunno if there will be a rise 15 meters away, or...   Aug 26 2005, 08:33 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It can't be put into hiberation any more than ...   Aug 26 2005, 09:19 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Bob, the really big qualitative difference between...   Aug 27 2005, 01:05 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 27 2005, 02:05 AM)Bo...   Aug 27 2005, 01:15 AM
||- - algorimancer   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 26 2005, 08:15 PM)As fo...   Aug 30 2005, 06:07 PM
|- - gpurcell   Bruce, I really wonder about that. I really think...   Aug 27 2005, 02:27 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Aug 27 2005, 03:27 AM)Bruce...   Aug 27 2005, 05:31 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Once again: the reason they're willing to fly ...   Aug 27 2005, 05:05 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Network missions aside (and of course very small l...   Aug 28 2005, 12:30 AM
- - RNeuhaus   I think that the "main problem" of the P...   Aug 29 2005, 03:23 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 29 2005, 03:23 PM)1) la...   Aug 29 2005, 03:36 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 29 2005, 10:36 AM)1) C...   Aug 29 2005, 03:56 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 29 2005, 03:36 PM)1) C...   Aug 29 2005, 04:50 PM
- - djellison   Phoenix is important as a GRS groundtruth for near...   Aug 29 2005, 04:01 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bruce said: "As a way to investigate Meridia...   Aug 29 2005, 04:31 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Aug 29 2005, 04:31 PM)Br...   Aug 29 2005, 04:53 PM
|- - vjkane2000   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Aug 29 2005, 09:53 AM)we ne...   Aug 29 2005, 11:08 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (vjkane2000 @ Aug 29 2005, 11:08 PM)Whi...   Aug 30 2005, 12:27 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah -- it was actually sloppy language on my part...   Aug 29 2005, 05:26 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 29 2005, 05:26 PM)Ye...   Aug 29 2005, 08:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Detection of relatively recently exposed ice -- or...   Aug 30 2005, 06:24 PM
- - craigmcg   what impact will the descent thrusters have on the...   Aug 31 2005, 01:06 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (craigmcg @ Aug 31 2005, 02:06 AM)what ...   Aug 31 2005, 11:19 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (craigmcg @ Aug 31 2005, 01:06 AM)what ...   Aug 31 2005, 12:13 PM
- - djellison   "As the ice starts advancing off Mars’ northe...   Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM)...   Aug 31 2005, 02:17 PM
- - RNeuhaus   The Phoenix's probably specific landing site w...   Aug 31 2005, 04:42 PM


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