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Phoenix science results, Beginning with December 2008 AGU meeting
elakdawalla
post Dec 15 2008, 09:22 PM
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I figured it was time for a new thread, since we finally seem to be getting some science results out of Phoenix. The press release should be out shortly.

First numerical result I've heard was given by Peter Smith at today's press briefing at AGU: TEGA found that the soil is composed of 5% calcium carbonate, which is a significant result.

Hopefully more will hit the Web soon -- post here when the links go up!

--Emily


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fredk
post Feb 18 2009, 05:48 PM
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There's an article on New Scientist about this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16620

In that article there's a link to this conference abstract:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1440.pdf
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HughFromAlice
post Feb 21 2009, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 19 2009, 03:18 AM) *
conference abstract:


Very interesting abstract. I'm hanging out to hear the full exposition at the conference. This is an important topic with wide implications. Well, they say they have a smoking gun, and let's hope it doesn't turn out to be the smoky sublimation from an ice pistol (sorry I couldn't resist!).

This is basically the story of the photos of two spheroids on the legs of Phoenix. From these photos it looks like a smaller spheroid could have merged with a larger one just below it. For a really good enhanced photo - by HortonHeardAWho - of Phoenix leg and spheroids go to http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardaw...392520/sizes/o/

From my amateur level of understanding the key underpinning general points are that: -
a. The index of refraction of liquid water is larger than that of water ice. [Thus - in these photos - a darker spheroid is likely to be liquid.]
b. If the spheroids were made up of supersaturated aqueous solutions they would grow due to attracting atmospheric water vapour hygroscopically (deliquescence).
c. If they were made up of ice, they would sublimate and so would shrink. [Counter argument: Alternative explanation for growth - water vapour from ice below Phoenix could have sublimated and recondensed on ice spheroids on the relatively cold (in shadow) legs faster than the spheroids were sublimating].

However, the spheroids are highly like to be liquid as: -
1. The fact that shapes observed were spheroidal suggests the presence of the liquid phase. (They could have gone through a number of freeze/thaw cycles).
2. The small upper spheroid darkened between photos. This suggests it changed phase from ice to liquid.
3. The spheroids look as if they joined between photos with the upper spheroid reduced in size afterwards (actual joining not observed). Thus they moved. Therefore they were liquid. [Counter argument - changing light between photos only gives the illusion of movement.]
4. Growth is suppressed in the smaller upper spheroid left behind.......suggesting that when it moved most of its salts were carried with it. [Implication - as a less concentrated solution it froze. This runs against the counter argument in a. above which indicates it should have grown].

Any experts out there, please feel free to correct me!
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Posts in this topic
- elakdawalla   Phoenix science results, Beginning with December 2008 AGU meeting   Dec 15 2008, 09:22 PM
- - alan   Some AGU related images at the Phoenix site http:/...   Dec 15 2008, 11:02 PM
- - alan   Phoenix Site on Mars May Be in Dry Climate Cycle P...   Dec 16 2008, 02:24 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE The Thermal and Electrical Conductivity Prob...   Dec 16 2008, 10:19 AM
- - djellison   I think it's consistent. They saw vapour, the...   Dec 16 2008, 11:15 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 16 2008, 11:15 AM)...   Dec 17 2008, 11:49 AM
- - marsophile   From http://planetary.org/blog/ referring to TEGA ...   Dec 16 2008, 11:57 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (marsophile @ Dec 16 2008, 11:57 PM...   Dec 17 2008, 08:23 AM
- - fredk   I agree, Marsbug - I also noticed that change in t...   Dec 17 2008, 03:09 PM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (fredk @ Dec 17 2008, 03:09 PM) If ...   Dec 18 2008, 12:15 PM
- - Doc   Wow, thanks for the cool graph fredk; I am sure my...   Dec 17 2008, 04:13 PM
- - ngunn   That makes a lot of sense marsbug - I like your hu...   Dec 18 2008, 12:44 PM
|- - marsbug   Thanks! I've had a quick look, but I'v...   Dec 18 2008, 03:35 PM
- - climber   marsbug, Who's Albert Einstien?   Dec 18 2008, 09:05 PM
- - marsbug   It's a little known fact that there were three...   Dec 18 2008, 09:17 PM
- - dvandorn   I've always been amused that the American come...   Dec 19 2008, 06:40 AM
- - marsbug   There's some more on it over on the planetary ...   Dec 20 2008, 06:09 PM
- - Phil Stooke   This LPSC abstract contains a full list of samples...   Feb 10 2009, 04:50 PM
- - marsophile   Interesting (LPSC abstract #2196) that the lack of...   Feb 11 2009, 10:04 PM
|- - ustrax   Looks like there is someone defending that the dro...   Feb 18 2009, 09:40 AM
- - fredk   There's an article on New Scientist about this...   Feb 18 2009, 05:48 PM
|- - HughFromAlice   QUOTE (fredk @ Feb 19 2009, 03:18 AM) con...   Feb 21 2009, 09:44 AM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (HughFromAlice @ Feb 21 2009, 04:44...   Feb 21 2009, 01:19 PM
- - Juramike   Oh wait! I get it! Here's a possible...   Feb 21 2009, 01:54 PM
|- - tfisher   If this really is liquid water, it would be a trem...   Feb 23 2009, 05:13 AM
- - serpens   A couple of very good points were made over on the...   Feb 27 2009, 01:50 AM
|- - HughFromAlice   QUOTE (serpens @ Feb 27 2009, 11:20 AM) A...   Feb 27 2009, 01:43 PM
- - djellison   What has irked me is that the media, and even spec...   Feb 27 2009, 02:39 PM
- - Juramike   Well...it does tell us quite a bit about Mars, act...   Feb 27 2009, 02:58 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   The most similar natural phenomenon to the landing...   Feb 27 2009, 06:30 PM
- - imipak   Getting irked at mass media representation of a sp...   Feb 27 2009, 08:52 PM
- - nprev   Today's lead story on Spaceflight Now; major p...   Mar 9 2009, 12:45 PM
- - imipak   It's that man again (Craig Covault), and that ...   Mar 9 2009, 08:25 PM
- - Greg Watson   Salty Tears So it was water on the landing legs.....   Mar 19 2009, 10:50 PM
|- - ConyHigh   QUOTE (Greg Watson @ Mar 19 2009, 02:50 P...   Mar 19 2009, 11:44 PM
|- - Den   QUOTE (Greg Watson @ Mar 19 2009, 11:50 P...   Dec 18 2010, 11:32 PM
- - nprev   Thanks for the link! The article reminded me ...   Mar 20 2009, 12:12 AM
- - Zvezdichko   Dear friends, I'm sorry if my question comes ...   Mar 20 2009, 12:58 PM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Mar 20 2009, 01:58 PM...   Mar 20 2009, 04:26 PM
- - Zvezdichko   Thank you for your long answer! I won't p...   Mar 20 2009, 05:04 PM
- - Paolo   The traditional Science issue presenting prelimina...   Jul 2 2009, 07:43 PM
- - Deimos   http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol325/issue5936...   Jul 3 2009, 05:16 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Some nice new images from these papers on the Phoe...   Jul 3 2009, 06:18 PM
- - HughFromAlice   Has anyone read the Phoenix papers published by Pe...   Jul 6 2009, 07:42 AM
- - HughFromAlice   I've just seen that NASA have published a good...   Jul 6 2009, 08:05 AM
- - HughFromAlice   I reckon that Phoenix was a second hand mission th...   Jul 7 2009, 10:25 PM
- - Paolo   A few more results from Phoenix in tomorrow ...   Sep 9 2010, 06:19 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   And for those of us in the hoi polloi without Scie...   Sep 10 2010, 01:16 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Slightly off topic here, but I was looking through...   Sep 13 2010, 05:05 PM
- - Phil Stooke   OK folks, answering my own question here... The ...   Oct 13 2010, 08:31 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Following up on my earlier posts, just above... I ...   Jan 20 2011, 06:18 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Following up on an older post... this is the Phoe...   Nov 29 2012, 10:36 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Another Phoenix product. A mission isn't over...   May 8 2013, 04:24 PM
- - jamescanvin   Holy Cow! Great work Phil.   May 9 2013, 07:49 AM
- - brellis   The names are all so fun! What a great piece ...   May 9 2013, 08:38 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Sleep? But something might happen in the Solar Sy...   May 9 2013, 08:10 PM
- - Phil Stooke   And... here's a map projected version of the R...   May 10 2013, 03:28 PM
- - Tom Dahl   That is a fabulous image, Phil! It provides wo...   May 11 2013, 02:19 AM


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