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List of evidence for water on Mars
pumpkinpie
post Feb 5 2013, 04:59 PM
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Does there exist a list of all the evidence of water on Mars, listed by spacecraft?

Ideally, it would be a list with a short description and a link to a story or news release. For example:

Mars Global Surveyor: NASA Images Suggest Water Still Flows in Brief Spurts on Mars http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/new...s-20061206.html
Phoenix: NASA Spacecraft Confirms Martian Water, Mission Extended http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/...x-20080731.html
Opportunity: NASA Mars Rover Finds Mineral Vein Deposited by Water http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/news/mer20111207.html

I know I could spend some time and extend the list that I've started above, but if someone or some organization has already done it I'd hate to reinvent the wheel!

Thank you.
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pumpkinpie
post Feb 5 2013, 06:10 PM
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Thanks for the reply!

I think I should have been a little more specific in my post. Sometimes I forget that people can't read everything I think about when I am typing. laugh.gif

I work in a planetarium, so I do shows on Mars for the public and for schools. I would love to have just a highlights list--what scientists and/or NASA E/PO think are the (for example) 10, 20, 50 "best" discoveries of evidence of water on Mars. Every month it seems there is a new release saying "best evidence yet!" so that makes me think, ok, what was the last "best evidence yet!" and the one before, and the one before, etc.

I would use it a number of ways. For my own background information, so I am ready to answer the question from a student or general public "how do we know there is/was water there?" in 30 seconds or less. That applies for my student employees, too. They wouldn't have the same time to dedicate to learning about this topic as I do, so I would want to give them a simple list. It would also be great to include in handouts I give to teachers.

I may be asking a lot, with the only answer being "do it yourself and use your best judgement." smile.gif
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JRehling
post Feb 6 2013, 06:15 PM
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There are a few different parts of the answer, broken down by ice/liquid/vapor, and past/present. And past includes many past eras.

Phoenix took a photo of the ice like a hockey rink in the polar subsurface, so that's about as direct evidence as you could ask for regarding the ice/present combination. That was no great surprise after Mars Odyssey showed the extent of subsurface ice by detecting where neutrons were absorbed by hydrogen (which is a component of virtually no other mineral than water ice).

Pointers to other key evidence are:

MGS and MRO: Orbital observation of gullies formed in the present.

MRO: Orbital detection of minerals that are likely formed only in water.

Opportunity: In situ detection of minerals and geomorphology that indicates standing (acidic) water.

This is far from exhaustive, but if you only have 30 seconds, you can only say so much.
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mcaplinger
post Feb 6 2013, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 6 2013, 11:15 AM) *
This is far from exhaustive, but if you only have 30 seconds, you can only say so much.

Water vapor was detected and globally mapped by the Viking Orbiter MAWD instrument, and the residual north polar cap was confirmed to be water ice by Viking as well.

There was some Earth-based spectroscopy in the 1950s that suggested the polar caps were water ice, but I'm not sure how definitive those were.


--------------------
Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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mwolff
post Feb 8 2013, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Feb 6 2013, 02:01 PM) *
Water vapor was detected and globally mapped by the Viking Orbiter MAWD instrument, and the residual north polar cap was confirmed to be water ice by Viking as well.

There was some Earth-based spectroscopy in the 1950s that suggested the polar caps were water ice, but I'm not sure how definitive those were.



Water vapor was identified in 1963:

Spinrad H, Münch G, Kaplan LD. 1963. Letter to the Editor: the Detection of Water Vapor on Mars. Astrophysical Journal 137: 1319


Water ice in clouds in 1973:

Curran RJ, Conrath BJ, Hanel RA, Kunde VG, Pearl JC. 1973. Mars: Mariner 9 Spectroscopic Evidence for H<SUB>2</SUB>O Ice Clouds. Science 182: 381-3


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JRehling
post Feb 8 2013, 07:56 PM
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On a meta-level, I recall that Earth-based spectroscopy of the planets has a long history that began with inappropriately low standards of calibration, so water vapor may have been "detected" in the atmosphere of Mars a long time before it was actually detected. It may be hard to know now which early efforts actually observed water vapor in Earth's atmosphere and simply attributed it to Mars. But certainly the time came when these studies were done right.
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mwolff
post Feb 10 2013, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 8 2013, 01:56 PM) *
On a meta-level, I recall that Earth-based spectroscopy of the planets has a long history that began with inappropriately low standards of calibration, so water vapor may have been "detected" in the atmosphere of Mars a long time before it was actually detected. It may be hard to know now which early efforts actually observed water vapor in Earth's atmosphere and simply attributed it to Mars. But certainly the time came when these studies were done right.


This seems to be a somewhat disparaging comment, but it is sufficiently vague (with respect to antecedents ) as to be more puzzling than anything else. To be clear on the two citations that I made, but perhaps less brief:

The Spinrad et al. (1963) paper detects 11 weak water vapor that are detectable from ground-based measurements because of the Doppler shift of Mars at that time (and the use of very high resolution spectroscopy). Using the line equivalent widths and some guesses for the curve of grown, the arrive at an abundance of 5-10 pr-microns. This article is freely available:

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1963ApJ...137.1319S

This article is brief to say the least. Apparently, there was great interest in getting their publication out as quickly as possible. For more discussion of the history of water detections on Mars, one can find some useful discussion in

Kaplan LD, Münch G, Spinrad H. 1964. An Analysis of the Spectrum of Mars. Astrophysical Journal 139: 1

which is also available freely:

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1964ApJ...139....1K

The authors include a reasonable history of previous efforts to detect water vapor on Mars and as well as surface pressure (CO2 lines) and surface water ice.

The water ice detection of Curran et al. is also spectroscopic. You may have to apply Occam's Razor to this one...the signature is quite consistent with water ice (and is cited in the Mars literature as the first detection), but it is a single line (12 micron). You can see both the 12 and 45 micron features in Thermal Emission Spectrometer data, though instrumental issues and surface emission uncertainties have made this latter a bit problematic for facile use.
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JRehling
post Feb 12 2013, 12:17 AM
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Speaking just to the spectroscopic detection of H2O (or any other vapor/gas) in planets' atmospheres, there was a sequence of increasing sophistication. The most naive approach was to look at the body's spectrum and assume that any observed substance was present at the body. The next most sophisticated approach was to look at two bodies and presume that any substance seen on body A but not on body B must be present on body A but not on body B. By the 1960s, a much savvier test was used: To count as evidence only those spectral lines which show the correct Doppler shift given the motion of the body.

I wasn't seeking to disparage any particular result, simply to state that it's not a given that past claims that may happen to have been correct may not have been the result of a properly convincing study. Whether this was first done right in 1867, 1913, or 1963, I don't know. It's easier to look at old spectroscopic studies that claimed incorrect things and know that they were wrong, and as of the 1960s, incorrect beliefs regarding Venus still found validation in spectroscopic studies.

EDIT: The 1963 citation did use the Doppler shift as verification, which seems like exactly the right thing to do. I note that in the same time frame, the same researcher, Spinrad, used spectroscopic observations of Venus to conclude that CO2 was a minority component of Venus's atmosphere, behind N2. Which is to say that at least to some extent, the researchers of the time, that one in particular, were overestimating the informativeness of the techniques and instruments of their time.
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Posts in this topic
- pumpkinpie   List of evidence for water on Mars   Feb 5 2013, 04:59 PM
- - elakdawalla   It would be a long list. Don't look for press ...   Feb 5 2013, 05:09 PM
- - pumpkinpie   Thanks for the reply! I think I should have ...   Feb 5 2013, 06:10 PM
|- - JRehling   There are a few different parts of the answer, bro...   Feb 6 2013, 06:15 PM
|- - pumpkinpie   Simple, but very helpful! Thanks!   Feb 6 2013, 07:57 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 6 2013, 11:15 AM) T...   Feb 6 2013, 08:01 PM
|- - mwolff   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Feb 6 2013, 02:01 PM)...   Feb 8 2013, 03:36 PM
|- - JRehling   On a meta-level, I recall that Earth-based spectro...   Feb 8 2013, 07:56 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 8 2013, 12:56 PM) ....   Feb 8 2013, 08:35 PM
|- - mwolff   QUOTE (JRehling @ Feb 8 2013, 01:56 PM) O...   Feb 10 2013, 03:28 PM
|- - JRehling   Speaking just to the spectroscopic detection of H2...   Feb 12 2013, 12:17 AM
- - elakdawalla   This sounds like a pitch for a magazine article. I...   Feb 5 2013, 06:36 PM
- - nprev   IIRC, they did the same around the same time for t...   Feb 6 2013, 10:58 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   ADMIN HAT ON Let's be clear here everyone bef...   Feb 10 2013, 05:01 PM
- - belleraphon1   There was a conference earlier this month at UCLA ...   Feb 28 2013, 11:55 AM
- - marsbug   Pardon the thread necromancy, but this seems like ...   Jul 3 2014, 11:12 PM
- - serpens   Not even mildly damp. With 1 to 2% of perchlorate...   Jul 4 2014, 07:52 AM
- - marsbug   There's certainly nothing to forgive, I think ...   Jul 4 2014, 04:19 PM
- - TheAnt   Studies done at Niels Bohr institute in Copenhagen...   Apr 9 2015, 11:43 AM
- - marsbug   This makes me wonder: If ice, at a lattitude and a...   Apr 9 2015, 04:21 PM
|- - TheAnt   On Earth you will often find water under a glacier...   Apr 10 2015, 09:09 AM
- - serpens   A glacier is by definition dynamic. So are they c...   Apr 12 2015, 12:41 AM
|- - TheAnt   QUOTE (serpens @ Apr 12 2015, 02:41 AM) I...   Apr 17 2015, 10:36 AM
|- - katodomo   QUOTE (TheAnt @ Apr 17 2015, 12:36 PM) Gl...   Apr 17 2015, 07:08 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   "Transient liquid water and water activity at...   Apr 13 2015, 07:26 PM
|- - katodomo   EGU 2015 Press Conference 5: "Water Signature...   Apr 14 2015, 01:32 PM
- - scalbers   Will Monday's announcement be about further wa...   Sep 26 2015, 06:10 PM
|- - dolphin   Rumor suggests a discovery of flowing water. I wou...   Sep 27 2015, 06:03 AM
- - nprev   If that has any validity it would probably be a re...   Sep 27 2015, 06:39 AM
|- - dolphin   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 27 2015, 06:39 AM) If ...   Sep 27 2015, 08:16 AM
- - drz1111   Just like the Atacama. Cool that it happens at th...   Sep 28 2015, 03:15 PM
- - dudley   Clear evidence of liquid water on Mars' surfac...   Sep 28 2015, 05:38 PM
- - scalbers   The lowered melting point in the presence of perch...   Sep 28 2015, 06:00 PM
|- - JRehling   Some rather acrobatic surface missions that we mig...   Sep 28 2015, 06:12 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   A loooong time ago I saw an item somewhere on the ...   Sep 28 2015, 06:48 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Sep 28 2015, 01:48 P...   Sep 28 2015, 08:50 PM
- - dudley   There seems to be a good deal of concern that visi...   Sep 28 2015, 07:19 PM
- - marsophile   In this morning's press conference on Recurren...   Sep 28 2015, 07:39 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE Ojha first noticed these puzzling features a...   Sep 28 2015, 08:06 PM
- - Steve G   Will someone please correct me if I am wrong. Eit...   Sep 28 2015, 08:17 PM
- - elakdawalla   MGS found slope streaks; recurring slope lineae ar...   Sep 28 2015, 08:18 PM
- - gpurcell   Seems to me a reasonably priced approach could be ...   Sep 28 2015, 09:31 PM
- - atomoid   I was also confused about the RSL vs 'slope st...   Sep 28 2015, 10:19 PM
- - dolphin   Am I missing something? Why would briny perchlorat...   Sep 28 2015, 10:22 PM
- - brellis   One of the blurbs alluded to the possibility of an...   Sep 28 2015, 10:36 PM
|- - JRehling   My sense is: The subsurface ice layer (as seen un...   Sep 28 2015, 11:43 PM
- - serpens   I have to admit to being a touch underwhelmed by t...   Sep 29 2015, 02:45 AM
- - pac56   I think the news is they did spectral analysis of ...   Sep 29 2015, 06:17 AM
- - marsbug   I'd point towards Emily's blog as well. WR...   Sep 29 2015, 08:59 AM
- - dvandorn   It seems to me that the confirmation of liquid wat...   Sep 29 2015, 03:15 PM
|- - surbiton   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 29 2015, 04:15 PM) ...   Sep 29 2015, 04:11 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 29 2015, 08:15 AM) ...   Sep 29 2015, 04:36 PM
- - marsophile   http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2327...   Sep 30 2015, 02:51 AM
- - Explorer1   The fact that these features are spread out over s...   Sep 30 2015, 03:50 AM
|- - JRehling   I think there are lots of ways to study/sample the...   Sep 30 2015, 05:00 PM
- - serpens   JRehling's post #47 proposing the water source...   Oct 1 2015, 04:45 AM
- - Explorer1   'Fluidizing agent found on Mars' doesn...   Oct 1 2015, 04:51 AM
- - serpens   This makes for rather interesting reading. http...   May 20 2016, 08:14 AM
- - marsbug   The question marks around the RSL's are growin...   Aug 24 2016, 11:38 AM
- - serpens   Well Spirit at Tyrone demonstrated that a thin lay...   Aug 27 2016, 03:14 AM
- - Julius   A study published discussing inverted river channe...   Aug 29 2016, 08:12 PM
- - serpens   The linked Planetary Society blog article provides...   May 9 2019, 12:48 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (serpens @ May 9 2019, 01:48 AM) Th...   Jun 19 2019, 05:05 PM
- - marsbug   I don't know if this has been mentioned before...   Feb 21 2020, 05:56 PM
|- - serpens   Here is the complete abstract from the LPSC 2020 M...   Feb 24 2020, 06:35 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (marsbug @ Feb 21 2020, 05:56 PM) I...   Feb 24 2020, 02:17 PM
- - atomoid   You're right we don't hear much on this an...   Feb 25 2020, 09:49 PM
- - marsbug   Just generally, from my physics background, layman...   Feb 27 2020, 02:11 PM
- - Marz   I'm sharing this LPSC abstract because it is q...   Mar 16 2021, 11:26 PM
- - marsbug   My apologies for the thread necromancy, but it see...   Apr 29 2023, 01:13 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (marsbug @ Apr 29 2023, 02:13 AM) M...   Apr 30 2023, 04:21 PM
- - serpens   This is in accord with modeled changes in the obli...   May 3 2023, 12:39 PM
- - titanicrivers   Not sure if this is the best topic for this post o...   Mar 21 2024, 06:14 PM


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