Mars Science Lab Cameras |
Mars Science Lab Cameras |
Jan 4 2009, 02:40 AM
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#46
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
Nope, no microphone on the MSL MARDI. You should note that while it shares a name with the instrument on PHX, it's a completely different electronic design and doesn't use the cellphone processor that made adding a microphone to the PHX design fairly straightforward.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Jan 4 2009, 03:09 AM
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#47
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 4763 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Glendale, AZ Member No.: 197 |
You can't simply plug one in through the spare USB port?
-------------------- If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
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Nov 17 2009, 04:38 PM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
Interesting comment about the Mastcams from Mike Ravine of MSSS over at http://nasawatch.com/archives/2009/11/avat...i.html#comments
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Nov 17 2009, 05:33 PM
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#49
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Not entirely accurate is it? If the fixed focus stays - then one eye will be about 3.75x the res of Pancam, the other one, about 1.25x Pancam. But the more I think about it - the more the zoom descope hurts.
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Nov 17 2009, 05:42 PM
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#50
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
Doug, you're right about the resolution. What we are really losing with the zoom is the ability to capture the entire surroundings in color with a small number of frames. As is, we will have only hazcam/navcam monochrome images to do that. And of course there's the 10 fps capability, which is really not that interesting with a narrow FOV.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Nov 17 2009, 05:47 PM
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#51
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Damn - 10fps wide angle movies. Driving. DD's. It's enough to bring a grown space fan to tears.
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Nov 18 2009, 05:59 PM
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#52
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Director of Galilean Photography Group: Members Posts: 896 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 93 |
Would it be possible in a future rover to use single shot color imagers for the nav and haz cams? They're not scientific instruments per se, so there wouldn't be much of a penalty.
-------------------- Space Enthusiast Richard Hendricks
-- "The engineers, as usual, made a tremendous fuss. Again as usual, they did the job in half the time they had dismissed as being absolutely impossible." --Rescue Party, Arthur C Clarke Mother Nature is the final inspector of all quality. |
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Nov 19 2009, 05:40 PM
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#53
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Martian Photographer Group: Members Posts: 352 Joined: 3-March 05 Member No.: 183 |
The "penalty" is technical rather than scientific. Single shot color uses patterned filters on the sensor. The spatial content of the scene is undersampled, and later interpolated. Stereo processing for range maps and navigation would then look at the results of the interpolater. It is not obvious how much degradation there would be, especially if the green channel or maybe the sum of all 3 channels got used in the stereo/navigation processing. But it might be a tough sell without data. (As I recall, using a bayer pattern detector under mastcam's science filters was a tough sell to some of the camera team, and that's a less touchy operation.) For the record, I think it is do-able; but it's not the same to think it can be done reliably versus to show you'll never put the rover in jeopardy due to such a decision.
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Nov 19 2009, 05:45 PM
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#54
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
It is not obvious how much degradation there would be, especially if the green channel or maybe the sum of all 3 channels got used in the stereo/navigation processing. On Mars where there's not much color variation in the first place, wouldn't you effectively be able to recover full resolution by simply multiplying different bayer "channels" by a corresponding factor to make a sort of white-balanced, "grayscale" image? Effectively getting back a panchromatic image as you'd normally have. -------------------- |
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Nov 19 2009, 06:50 PM
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#55
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2511 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
The balancing operation ugordon describes is something we've been playing with for Mastcam. But note that since Mastcam's Bayer filters are transparent in the near-IR, when we use narrowband filters in those wavelengths the images are effectively grayscale and there is no spatial penalty (we just turn the interpolator off in that case). Of course you wouldn't want to have a filter wheel on your engineering cameras.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Nov 19 2009, 08:13 PM
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#56
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Director of Galilean Photography Group: Members Posts: 896 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 93 |
If you can get a custom filter pattern applied, you could do RGB_clear_ quads across the chip instead of the RGBG Bayer.
Also, the hazcams on MER were the same die as the navcams and pancams, with the hazcams downsampled. In my idea, use an off-the-shelf single shot color die for navcams and hazcams, with the hazcam SW only looking at one downsampled color channel. The pancam could use the same die without the Bayer pattern, to reduce software complexity and allow full spectral range. Would there be value to get color info from Navcams or Hazcams? Maybe, maybe not. It might be possible to see a difference in the surface colors that might not be as obvious or distinctive in B&W, ie there's a bluish patch over there, we should check it out vs that's just a typical grey patch, let's move on. The rear hazcams could provide their color data to another process that looks for outliers, ie the white silica that Spirit digs up. Anyways, sounds like a good PhD project for someone someday. -------------------- Space Enthusiast Richard Hendricks
-- "The engineers, as usual, made a tremendous fuss. Again as usual, they did the job in half the time they had dismissed as being absolutely impossible." --Rescue Party, Arthur C Clarke Mother Nature is the final inspector of all quality. |
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Nov 20 2009, 04:00 PM
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#57
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Martian Photographer Group: Members Posts: 352 Joined: 3-March 05 Member No.: 183 |
The kind of ideas here are why I think it can be done. It just remains to be shown that in 99-th percentile cases, it still works well enough to do no harm. Each adds complexity to the data stream--a color camera can generate jpegs without the rover (or camera) cpu being involved. Multiple paths (color download vs. reprocessing the colors to retrieve monochrome) add complexity. Again, something that seems easy to deal with. The software would have to include data from all parts of the pattern through a standard interpolation scheme or through some sort of multiplicative balancing (which is sensitive to small errors in assumed color). Blurring the image could help--aliasing is much worse than oversampling for stereo processing. So, having RGB-Clear and just using the clear would be bad, but using RGBG or RGBC and summing them into a lower resolution product would be fine; slightly blurring the latter would be optimal.
Ultimately, I think this is a good way to go. But I see no urgency for the path, since the value of the color is undercut by the assumption that it works partly due to the lack of color variation... But as long as it still works in cases where the color is useful, and I think it can, then this will become the path. Mastcam is paving the way for this, even with the unfortunate descopes. Others will follow. |
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Nov 20 2009, 08:44 PM
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 656 Joined: 20-April 05 From: League City, Texas Member No.: 285 |
Using a Sigma FOVEON sensor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor, where each pixel records all colors simultaneously, would avoid the interpolation problem.
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Mar 26 2010, 04:26 PM
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 18-December 07 From: New York Member No.: 3982 |
According to Emily's twitter account, James Cameron is teaming up with Malin Space Science Systems to try and bring back the original zoom feature to Mastcam.
http://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/11058862622 |
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Mar 26 2010, 05:29 PM
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#60
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really hope they can pull this off. I was hoping Cameron might help out with some of his Smurf money to rescope Mastcam so he could then get a 3D HD film out of it
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