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Posted by: punkboi Jun 18 2007, 08:50 PM

Solar panel repaired:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173>http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jun 20 2007, 09:56 PM

Hubble images dwarf planet Ceres and Vesta...

precusor to DAWN data....

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070620_hubble_ceresvesta.html

Go Hubble... Go DAWN...

Can hardly wait for DAWN to make harbor at these two worldlets.....

Craig

Posted by: BPCooper Jun 20 2007, 10:55 PM

Here is a selection of photos I took today:

http://www.launchphotography.com/Dawn_cleanroom.html

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jun 20 2007, 11:10 PM

So may I assume you had your camera on a strap and held it tightly?

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 20 2007, 11:27 PM

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2007/jun/HQ_M07071_Dawn_Prelaunch_Briefing.html
MEDIA ADVISORY: M07-71
June 20, 2007

Posted by: John Flushing Jun 21 2007, 01:24 AM

Posted by: nprev Jun 21 2007, 01:28 AM

Reminds me of the Pioneer 10/11 images of Ganymede, Europa & Io...a few years later, surprise, surprise...

Posted by: antipode Jun 21 2007, 01:29 AM

Vesta actually looks like it would be pretty spherical if it hadn't taken that giant hit. That crater has excavated so deeply its going to be amazing to image...

Are those colours close to accurate naked eye colours?

P

Posted by: Chmee Jun 21 2007, 01:50 AM

Wow, great photos, very nice teaser before Dawn. Almost looks "Mars-ish" with the red hue. Is that color enhanced?

Posted by: stevesliva Jun 21 2007, 04:22 AM

No, it's triton-ish!

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jun 21 2007, 05:29 AM

According to the Space.com article "Color differences in the image reflect differences in surface chemicals," The STSI site says the images were taken in visible and UV, so to an extent it is false colors.

BTW there's a great Vesta rotation sequence there if anyone wants to try put it into an animation
http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2007/27/image/d/

Posted by: punkboi Jun 21 2007, 06:04 AM

Great photos Ben... Wish I could be there to take photos of the launch on 7/7.

Posted by: David Jun 21 2007, 01:11 PM

Nice. I gather that the axis of rotation goes through the central peak of the crater, or pretty close?

I still don't know what to say to people who insist that Vesta is "a spheroid". It might have been once; it sure doesn't look like one now. Have any smaller asteroids of about the same inclination and mean orbital diameter been identified as possibly being pieces of Vesta?

(Which gives me the mad idea of a future astronaut corps tasked with the the job of finding all the scattered bits of exploded asteroids and... gluing them back together )

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 21 2007, 02:48 PM

Here's my version, which I'll be posting later today on the blog after I get some other stuff done.

One thing I tried to do was to take sequential frames and make a 3D animation, but it didn't seem to work too well -- the time steps were too discontinuous and quite widely separated in some cases. If someone here has some free time to play, it seems that some pairs of these images should make pretty good stereo pairs -- I just don't have time today to experiment.



--Emily

Posted by: alan Jun 21 2007, 03:40 PM

Yes, there is a Vesta family of asteroids. There are also Vestoids, asteroids that have spectra similar to Vesta that are not in the family, some of these are near-earth asteroids. There are even some meteorites that are believed to have originally been part of Vesta.

Posted by: JRehling Jun 21 2007, 06:11 PM

It's a nice point. Before I saw your post I was thinking that this kind of resolution could be called the "enigmatic zone". In a case where we know just what we're looking for (like the antimariner hemisphere of Mercury), we can interpret those fuzzy blotches (as ray craters). But on Ceres and Vesta, who knows? What is the closest analogue for a world "like" Ceres that we've seen up close -- Amalthea? Iapetus?

The best guess has to be that unresolved blobs are craters surfacing ice beneath a darker surface, but I wouldn't want to bet my paycheck on that.

Posted by: volcanopele Jun 21 2007, 06:41 PM

Looking at Ceres, my thoughts run to Umbriel.

Posted by: Ken90000 Jun 21 2007, 08:25 PM

To me, Ceres looks like a larger version of Phoebe. Covered with darker material with ices exposed inside of craters and other topography.

Posted by: Pavel Jun 21 2007, 08:47 PM

Here's the best I could do. I selected the frames with minimal difference and many features, but still, I can barely see the the stereo effect. However, my stereoscopic vision is not very good, so I'll post it anyway.

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 21 2007, 08:49 PM

Yeah, I can't say I see much difference either. Thanks for trying though.

--Emily

Posted by: climber Jun 21 2007, 08:58 PM

Neither do I.
I guess Pavel belongs to the Flat Earth society anyway

Posted by: punkboi Jun 21 2007, 09:54 PM

Dawn is now attached to its third stage kick motor:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173>http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173

2 weeks from Saturday...

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jun 21 2007, 10:03 PM

Agree that these look like the old Pioneer images of the Galilean moons...

I think Ceres will be much more "processed" than Phoebe... but not active like Triton. Ceres be the first dwarf planet to be visited..... if you do not include major moons.... and if you disqualify Vesta due to not being "sherical" in shape... but that may just be due to a major impact event... and NO, am not trying to open up that debate here in this thread.

DAWN should reach Ceres before New Horizons reaches Pluto/Charon. Will really be interesting to compare these two dwarf planets since the data for both should be reaching Earth in the same year, 2015.
An inner snowline dwarf and a Kuiper dwarf..... wonderful

Triton
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02212.jpg

Ceres
http://i14.tinypic.com/4l78uwm.jpg

Phoebe
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02229.jpg

WOW.. my Grandsons will be 9 years old then.... I better start prepping them now!!!!!


Craig

Posted by: alan Jun 22 2007, 01:25 AM

Will Dawn orbit Earth before heading to Vesta?

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 22 2007, 01:29 AM

No.

Posted by: punkboi Jun 22 2007, 02:31 AM

It will immediately be in an Earth escape trajectory like every other interplanetary mission

Posted by: nprev Jun 22 2007, 02:43 AM

Well, technically not true, PB; remember Galileo & Magellan were Shuttle-launched. True within the context of unmanned boosters AFAIK, though.

A pity in a way. Launch windows would be much broader if planetary missions could be parked in LEO before departure, though of course that completely defeats the purpose of the booster's initial and inherent delta-V capabilities.

Posted by: Ken90000 Jun 22 2007, 03:51 AM

I still am new to this and cannot "quote"

"Will DAWN orbit Earth before heading to Vesta?"

I doubt any other planetary spacecraft will ever spend much time in Earth Orbit after that CONTOUR debacle.

Posted by: alan Jun 22 2007, 04:26 AM

Article about Dawn mission from 2004 (pdf)
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~hamilton/teaching/ASTR695fall06/mcfadden.pdf

Posted by: stevesliva Jun 22 2007, 04:45 AM

Dang! How many guys in bunny suits does it take to screw in a spacecraft?
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=32551

Posted by: mchan Jun 22 2007, 05:14 AM

Depends on how "direct ascent" is defined. Even NH was in a parking orbit, though only for about 30 minutes if I recall correctly. So while it did not make a complete orbit around the planet, it nevertheless was in a temporary orbit. And if I recall correctly again, NH was originally going to launch at night for a direct ascent trajectory.

One definition of direct ascent is a trajectory in which the upper stages make a back-to-back continuous burns all the way to earth escape velocity without any coast phase. NH's Centaur state made an initial burn, then coasted for about 30 minutes, then a 2nd burn to put the NH and the Star-48 kick stage into escape trajectory. If the 2nd burn were not done, NH would be stuck in Earth orbit. [edit] Actually, if the 2nd burn does not occur at all, I guess NH would hit the top of the atmosphere on its next perigee. It may make it around once or a few times, but it's going to reenter pretty within a few orbits if any.

As nprev noted, parking orbits allow for a little more flexibility in the launch window. Another reason for parking orbit is to position ground stations under the critical Earth escape staging and spacecraft deployment sequences. A direct ascent trajectory may not put ground stations in the right place at the right time.

I have not seen the launch event timeline for Dawn, so I don't know if it uses a direct ascent (as defined above) or not. If the Dawn Delta 2nd stage does two burns with a coast phase between, then I would not call it a direct ascent.

Posted by: Analyst Jun 22 2007, 06:43 AM

The second stage will make two burns.

Analyst

Posted by: AndyG Jun 22 2007, 08:21 AM

The pedantic in me would suggest that I orbited Earth when I jumped out of my seat at those Hubble images. Granted, it wasn't much of an orbit, but still...

Posted by: Decepticon Jun 22 2007, 10:39 AM

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/vesta.html

Posted by: punkboi Jun 22 2007, 05:16 PM

Yea, I think New Horizons would be ROYALLY screwed over if it spent 6 hours in LEO like Magellan and Galileo did onboard the shuttle. Well... Not really. If the payload bay was big enough to fit a third stage PLUS the Inertial Upper Stage, NH would probably be fine.



After that incident with the solar panel? You need a lot

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 22 2007, 07:19 PM

The payload bay can. Ulysses had a IUS with a Star 48 in the shuttle.

Posted by: edstrick Jun 23 2007, 05:04 AM

"The pedantic in me would suggest that I orbited Earth when I jumped out of my seat..."

Very very low perigee.

You're "in orbit" if your perigee is above something a bit below 80 miles. Early Mercury missions orbited at about 90 miles. They were "good for a few orbits"

Minimum orbital altitude is where a bowling ball in a circular orbit can just barely make it once around before entering.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 25 2007, 09:21 PM

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2007/jun/HQ_M07072_DAWN_Briefing_Change.html
MEDIA ADVISORY: M07-72
June 25, 2007

Uh oh. Note the passage: "Mission managers will discuss several issues that need to be resolved before Dawn's July 7-11 launch window."

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 25 2007, 11:26 PM

Woops. And note the change in personnel. No Dawn folks, only HQ people. This does not sound good.

--Emily

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 25 2007, 11:39 PM

Yeah, it doesn't look like "all systems go" when NASA HQ "hubcaps" (and no, I don't include Alan Stern in this category) are last minute replacements for members of the team, and via telecon, at that.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 26 2007, 12:51 AM

Why not? he is no different. They are just his underlings

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 12:55 AM

IMO, Alan is too new to Washington to be considered captured by Inside-the-Beltway Pod People. However, if in a few months he starts trying to convince people the moon is made of green cheese because such a view is "consistent with Administration priorities" or is "sensitive to congressional concerns," then I'll have to re-evaluate.

Posted by: brellis Jun 26 2007, 03:19 AM

"consistent with...." and "sensitive to bla blah concerns" -- these phrases make my skin crawl!

Posted by: punkboi Jun 26 2007, 05:18 AM

Greeaaat. Is this yet another situation where it wouldn't be a surprise if Phoenix (or Endeavour on STS-118) leave Florida first? Or am I just jumping the gun here?

Posted by: mchan Jun 26 2007, 07:01 AM

If Dawn does not launch before Phoenix, the drop dead date will be Oct 2007 after which a trajectory to rendezvous with both Vesta and Ceres will not be possible with the current propulsion constraints.

Posted by: Analyst Jun 26 2007, 07:46 AM

This really does not sound good. But the launch window is long, so no need to worry yet.

Maybe cork is falling of the Delta rocket, or a fuse just fired? I am kidding.

Analyst

Posted by: lyford Jun 26 2007, 02:43 PM

Sorry, my bad. I had misspelled my name on the chip and they have to replace it.

Am I the only one who thinks "Dawn" has been an overly optimistic name for this mission? The poetic implications of "Dawn has been cancelled" or "NASA says that Dawn will be postponed" always sound so bleak to me.

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 26 2007, 03:45 PM

I hope my morning paper's
front page story is a good omen.

(Nothing topical in the story,
just an overview of the mission.)

Posted by: punkboi Jun 26 2007, 04:33 PM

Considering the kind of trivial nonsense that delayed Dawn from June 20 to its current launch date... I wouldn't be surprised if any of that happened.

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 26 2007, 04:42 PM

Hey, Ben! Are you one of the photographers in this photo?
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=32559

--Emily

Posted by: Analyst Jun 26 2007, 05:13 PM

Do you know the reason for the delay from June 20 to June 30? Delta stacking problems caused the delay from June 30 to July 7. But what has been the reason for the first delay?

Analyst

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 05:17 PM

Ben's the one in the white overalls

Doug

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 05:33 PM

Check out the http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001016/.

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 05:43 PM

Blog seems 'nominal' - bar the Solar Array ding we already knew about.

Doug

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 06:15 PM

The launch press kit is now online (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press_kits/dawn-launch.pdf).

EDIT: Maybe it's me, but for some reason the kit doesn't look complete. Perhaps it's still in draft form.

Posted by: Orlin Denkov Jun 26 2007, 06:30 PM

http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.asp

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 06:38 PM

What the hell are they going on about?

They have 'issues' that are no different to any previous mission....so they cancelled the science briefing.

This is the most evasive, vague, non-specific briefing I've ever heard. They've known about the launch window for several months - and now they're saying they're proceeding full steam ahead for a July 7th launch - but that they have 'late breaking' issues regarding the forward attach points for the GEM's but they're already on track on that issue and a down-range comms issue for which they already have a workaround.

I'm kind of wondering where the beef is.


Doug
(PS - a significant telecon on Thursday for Opportunity going into Victoria - I assume the NASA HQ 'OK' to go in)

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 26 2007, 06:47 PM

Yeah, it was all a bit confusing. I think maybe they wanted to delay the science press conference until they made the final decision on Tuesday, but then they were left with having to tell the press something, so that's what happened today.

--Emily

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 06:52 PM

It seemed like they were trying to say that they didn't want to trouble the science team while they were still figuring out these issues - but the issues they mentioned (LV analysis and Range ) have nothing to do with the science team.

They've got a couple of weeks to get Dawn away - surely more than enough to clear these two issues - why they felt the need to mention the $20m+ that would be involved in delaying through till september requiring a new second stage I just don't know.

Doug

Posted by: punkboi Jun 26 2007, 06:53 PM

Naw, the New Horizons press kit looks the same



1 week, 4 days to be exact...though what's this about a new second stage being needed?

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 26 2007, 06:53 PM

Actually they only have from July 7-11, and an afternoon launch, with pesky weather. That's an awful short window.

--Emily

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 06:59 PM

Ahhh - ok - that puts a bit more pressure on - they need to be 100% sure they're good to go at the start of the window...but - why does it close on the 11th when the absolute window closes in October. A couple of days to reconfig the range for Phoenix - but what's happening at the end of the July to mean the windows closed.

Doug

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 06:59 PM

What's missing is the typical pre-launch press release that usually precedes the detailed mission section. However, given that today wasn't a normal pre-launch "press conference" (i.e., NASA SMD AA, mission PI, other science teams members, etc.), then this isn't too surprising.

Posted by: Analyst Jun 26 2007, 07:00 PM

Strange briefing. Why does the window end on July 11? They could have launched the MERs 10 day apart, this would give us a window until July 24. Isn't this a ULA problem, they caused all delays from June 20.

Analyst

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 07:03 PM

I'm not sure about the launch period (i.e., whether it's continuous until September) but the July 11 cutoff has a lot to do with range availability and launch vehicle extended duration on the pad.

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 26 2007, 07:04 PM

EDIT: deleted some speculation that didn't seem worth preserving in light of later comments.

Big thanks to Alex for posting the link to the press conference audio feed.

TTT

Posted by: Analyst Jun 26 2007, 07:06 PM

Are you sure Alex? The LV has been on the pad for not very long, stacking was actually running late. And there are no other launches in July from CCAFS.

Analyst

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 07:08 PM

I'm trying to be elliptical, and it looks like I succeeded.

Fuel is very corrosive, no?

Posted by: BPCooper Jun 26 2007, 07:08 PM

The planetary window closes July 19 and reopens Sept 7 or so.

The launch period closes July 11 as dictated because of a couple of reasons; one is that they need time to clean up the pad before bringing Phoenix out. The other reason is that you cannot conduct a launch with a spacecraft on the other launch pad. If it launches July 12 they say they won't have enough time to get ready for Phoenix to meet August 3. In addition if it can't launch they need time to remove Dawn from its rocket.

If they decide to launch Dawn July 7, it has 45 days to launch from there onward; the second stage has a short lifespan once it is fueled. They cannot get a new second stage until October or so; so if they decide to launch and Dawn isn't off the ground by July 11 they may be in trouble.

They also stated that if they decided to delay at this time and not press ahead next week, it would cost $25 million or so.

I believe I covered it close to accurately here.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 07:12 PM

Thanks, Ben. I was hoping you'd jump in.

And thanks for clearing up the launch period issue; the discontinuous aspect was new to me.

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 07:19 PM

You see - NOW it makes sense. The start of the window getting pushed right because of a couple of issues has meant that they're pushed to get it away before the cutoff at which point they'd have to destack to make way for Phoenix - and because the 2nd stage is a right off once fuelled, it would have to be replaced if they had to make way for Phoenix

Now - why couldn't they say that in the press con. Get out from behind the lens and get a job with KSC PAO Ben.

Doug

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 26 2007, 07:49 PM

If I'm understanding this, if something prevents launch during the short window between July 7 and July 11, not only is there a $25 million financial penalty for the new second stage, but the delay caused by procuring the new hardware will leave them with a short launch window in October.

The alternative is to stand down now without fueling the second stage, which lets them reschedule for a longer launch window starting some time in September. And also saves the cost of a new second stage.

Tricky business, launching rockets.

TTT

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 08:07 PM

Space.com has an http://www.space.com/news/070626_dawn_update.html.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 26 2007, 08:08 PM

The second stage is not a write off. Just some seals have to be replaced

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 26 2007, 08:23 PM

I could swear I heard the words "purchase a new second stage".

Posted by: djellison Jun 26 2007, 08:28 PM

That's what I heard as well - specific mention of replacing the 2nd stage.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 08:30 PM

See Emily's http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001017/ (which has a link to a more detailed story).

Posted by: BPCooper Jun 26 2007, 08:33 PM

Yea, the seals. Am I correct that it takes longer to refurb the stage than it would to get a new one. I think that's the idea.

Posted by: BPCooper Jun 26 2007, 08:39 PM

From the article:

"If the launch vehicle and assembly crane aren't repaired, however, the U.S. space agency faces a "traffic jam" into space that could cost around $25 million."

The crane was fixed and the minor weather delay was long ago. There is no threat of delay from those anymore; but rather had caused the delay to July 7 previously.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 08:43 PM

This should be an exciting next couple of weeks, in any event. I hope Dawn doesn't suffer the same type of mission delay (and in my opinion, science degradation) that hit Deep Space 1.

Note the eerie parallels between the two: Delta II launch vehicle, ion propulsion, Mars flyby (in the original mission design), Marc Rayman, etc.

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 26 2007, 09:00 PM

Also, I thought that the $25 million cost estimate assumes that NASA tries unsuccessfully to launch in July, and thus needs a replacement second stage.

If they decide instead to scrub the July launch window the mission will obviously incur some additional cost, but not as much as if they try to launch in July and don't succeed.

At least, that was my impression from the press conference.

TTT

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 26 2007, 09:52 PM

There are items on the second stage that would have to be removed and put on the "new" stage. Some one else would still get Dawn's stage

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 26 2007, 10:01 PM

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=8052
UCLA News
June 26, 2007

Posted by: punkboi Jun 27 2007, 12:25 AM

Does anyone know if Dawn will still be transported to 17-B tomorrow? There're no photos on the KSC site of the payload canister arriving at Astrotech or anything

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 27 2007, 12:59 AM

If I recall the press conference correctly, Dawn will be transported to the pad tomorrow.

TTT

Posted by: Analyst Jun 27 2007, 06:54 AM

Has the Delta launch team at CCAFS still being reduced since 2003? The planned time between the two MERs has been 10 days minimum, now they need more than 3 weeks.

Analyst

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 27 2007, 10:53 AM

MER paid for that turn around and was preplanned

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jun 27 2007, 02:38 PM

How interesting. Tell us more.

Posted by: Analyst Jun 27 2007, 03:40 PM

Since it is the fault of the launch provider (ULA, Boeing?) that they are already at the end of the window, shouldn't they pay the extra cost of turning arround faster after Dawn is launched? Without their delays Dawn had a 21 day window, now only 5 days are left. If they are capable of doing this (as they were during the MER launches) they should do it now.

Analyst

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 27 2007, 03:40 PM

When NASA assigned both MER launches to Delta II, it also made sure that Boeing could launch both within their launch period. The 10 day interval was the time from payload mate to launch. Both MERs were processed in the same building, which allowed for some synergy. As soon as one was mated to the 3rd stage and sent to pad, the next was mated to the 3rd stage and was ready to go to the pad as soon as the 1st one launched.

Back then the USAF had a 60 day called up for a GPS launch. This set the manning levels for the Delta launch site, which allowed this. I believe this has been relaxed. And with the addition of Delta-IV, the manpower is thinner. Plus the preplanning wasn't in place

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 27 2007, 03:44 PM

Some of the delays were not ULA'S fault. Crane is not their fault, it maintained by a USAF contractor. There were payload delays too.

There is no hook in the contract for such a 'penalty"

Posted by: punkboi Jun 27 2007, 06:55 PM

Dawn now at Pad 17-B...

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173>http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173

Webcam:

http://countdown.ksc.nasa.gov/elv/public/

Posted by: John Flushing Jun 27 2007, 07:21 PM

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070627_tw_dawn_preview.html

Posted by: Analyst Jun 28 2007, 07:04 AM

Does anyone remember MER-B? Cork, Batteries. I was just kidding about the cork. I will never do again.

Analyst

Posted by: punkboi Jun 30 2007, 08:46 PM

The Delta nose fairing should be placed around Dawn tomorrow

http://countdown.ksc.nasa.gov/elv/public/

PS: http://parman.blogspot.com/2007/06/ucla-william-k.html

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 2 2007, 08:33 PM

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/aw070207p1.xml&headline=Dawn%20Spacecraft%20Ready%20To%20Turn%20SciFi%20Into%20Reality&channel=space
By Craig Covault
Aviation Week & Space Technology
July 1, 2007

Posted by: elakdawalla Jul 2 2007, 09:17 PM

They just posted some images of Dawn being encased in the fairing!
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=173

--Emily

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jul 2 2007, 09:32 PM

Resisting the urge to sign their name or add a bit of graffiti on an inside panel right before the thing is closed up, must be excruciating.



I know, I know, they'd get fired and never work in the business ever again, possibly prosecuted as well. But if it were me...I'd sure be thinking about it.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 2 2007, 09:52 PM

not really, there is no real temptation. The fairing doesn't go anywhere except the bottom the ocean. It would be meaningless to write on the inside

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 2 2007, 09:56 PM

If I recall correctly, the MER team signed some of their work inside the rovers.

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jul 2 2007, 10:06 PM

Didn't someone actually once get caught and was fired for such an act? Perhaps it was associated with the Apollo 12 recovery of the Surveyor 3 parts?

Posted by: punkboi Jul 2 2007, 10:18 PM

The Atlas V nose fairing was signed by the New Horizons team before launch

Posted by: dvandorn Jul 2 2007, 11:06 PM

No -- the mylar thermal blankets on the MESA worktable attached to Apollo 11's Eagle had been signed by the closeout guy, with a note of good wishes. It was on the inside of the thermal blankets, and wouldn't be seen until Armstrong uncovered the MESA for use on the lunar surface.

Neil, the nice guy that he was (and is), said nothing about it on the air-to-ground, and nothing in the official debriefings. He told a couple of people about it on the quiet, IIRC with the admonition that *no* consequences come down on the guy who did it. As I understand it, the guy who did it was given a verbal reprimand by his bosses at Grumman, but otherwise was not punished.

-the other Doug

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 3 2007, 12:50 AM

like I said, meaningless to sign on the inside

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 3 2007, 02:22 AM

I did something like this. I was packing hardware and logistics items (Tang, toilet paper and t-shirts as we called it) for a Mir-Shuttle mission. It was a weekend so it was just me, a tech, another engineer I was traingin and an astronaut rep (Marsha Ivins). As we were packing some clothing, I made the remark that there was no "Inspected By XXXX" tag with the clothing. Marsha said we should make one and pack it. I said we can't and would get into trouble. Marsha countered that she could pack it as the astro rep. So we made one and gave it to Marsha, who then packed it. After the mission, I received a signed onorbit photo from with Ken Rominger holding a pair of socks with the "inspected by letter". I will scan the photo and post it if anyone wants to see it

Posted by: nprev Jul 3 2007, 02:31 AM

Heh, heh...cool, Jim! Yeah, I'd love to see it as long as it wouldn't get anyone into trouble.

Posted by: brellis Jul 3 2007, 06:56 AM

A very human moment - especially poignant given the unmanned-ness of our environs

Posted by: punkboi Jul 3 2007, 05:30 PM

A few weeks later, a photo was posted on the NH website showing a couple posing next to a piece of nose fairing wreckage that washed up on the beach of some Carribbean island

Posted by: ugordan Jul 3 2007, 05:32 PM

Was there ever a good quality shot of that washed-up fairing?

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 3 2007, 06:05 PM

Not to stray off-topic, but I'd like to see that photo if you know where it is.

Posted by: ugordan Jul 3 2007, 06:13 PM

Pretty much the best image I saw was on http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/overview/piPerspectives/piPerspective_6_1_2006.php.

Posted by: punkboi Jul 3 2007, 06:25 PM

Anyone know what the outcome was from today's Flight Readiness Review? I heard that the launch weather constraint forecast for Saturday and Sunday is 60%

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 3 2007, 06:32 PM

I think they are pressing on pending that one range issue which they will know tomorrow.

Hope they get off in the five day window now...afternoon t-storms have been especially heavy here the last week with this stalled-out low pressure system.

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 3 2007, 06:33 PM

Cool. Amazing that they are able to trace that. But it's happened with other parts before too.

Posted by: tricaric Jul 3 2007, 08:05 PM

One of the professional software tools used by the DAWN Science Team to design the orbit of the spacecraft around the Vesta asteroid is freely available for download:

http://orsa.sourceforge.net/

http://orsa.sourceforge.net/RendezvousWithVesta/

The main features of RendezvousWithVesta are:
* validated numerical algorithms, tested on NEAR mission data, and capable of accurately reproducing NEAR's orbit around Eros;
* complete control over Vesta's physical properties: mass, mass distribution model, shape model, rotation period, and pole ecliptic latitude and longitude;
* control over DAWN's initial orbit around Vesta: epoch, radius, equatorial (Vesta's equator) inclination, phase angle;
* export simulations as SPICE kernel files and as ASCII data files;
* 3D graphical visualization of the numerical simulation, including the ground tracking of DAWN over Vesta's surface;
* 2D plot of the altitude of the spacecraft and of the Vesta profile at nadir;
* completely open source and part of the ORSA framework;
* support for all major platforms: Linux, Mac OS X, Windows;

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jul 3 2007, 09:28 PM

According to New Scientist, LRR was go for this Saturday.....

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12188-nasa-set-to-launch-dawn-asteroid-mission.html

GO DAWN....

Craig

Posted by: helvick Jul 3 2007, 09:31 PM

Outstanding.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 4 2007, 12:24 AM

It was the FRR. LRR is Friday

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 4 2007, 12:42 AM

Hey, it's New Scientist, so factor that in.

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jul 4 2007, 01:16 AM

Thanks for the correction Jim.... that was MY flub.... (FRR vs LRR).

And Alex... yeah.... I know this is "New Scientist", but have not heard a peep from ANY other outlet... so gotta go with what we got, grain of salt taken...

Any one heard ANY thing else?

Craig

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 4 2007, 01:23 AM

How about http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/status/2007/elvstatus-20070703.html?

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jul 4 2007, 03:27 AM

Thank Alex....

they fuel on Thursday then the launch attempts are committed.

Just REALLY want o see this baby GO...... being an old timer, just wanna see a true ion drive in action... like Deep Space One.... feel we have been stuck in the chemical propulsion arena for way too long.

Craig

Posted by: nprev Jul 4 2007, 03:40 AM

Right on! GO DAWN!!! Here's to a spotless LRR...and, selfishly, an empty pad to clear the way for Phoenix, the next Shuttle launch, and one of my birds scheduled to go up on 11 Aug... ...getting kind of tight down there over the next few weeks.

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 4 2007, 11:17 PM

They have given the go to fuel the second stage.

According to NASA PAO, they have the 7-9th, stand down, and then the 15-19th which is a new surprise (if correct). I haven't heard any more on that. They said they discussed the Phoenix conflict today in addition to the range issue and weather.

60% wx violation on Saturday and 70% Sunday right now.

Posted by: punkboi Jul 4 2007, 11:31 PM

Just checked on Yahoo.com... The weather in Florida on July 13 calls for mostly sunny weather and 10% precipitation. Why the 6-day stand down?

Posted by: tedstryk Jul 4 2007, 11:37 PM

Assuming all goes well for DAWN, Astronomy Now has reported that a "leisurely" Pallas flyby is possible after Ceres. It would indeed be really cool to sample the "big three" with one mission. In case this comes to pass (and if not, it will at least provide an interesting comparison with the other recently released images), Charles Russell, DAWN's principle investigator, will be using Hubble sometime between Sep 1, 2007 and Sep 5, 2007 to study Pallas with WFPC/2 (too bad ACS HRC is dead).

http://archive.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/proposal_search?id=11115&mission=hst

http://www.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/get-visit-status?id=11115&markupFormat=html

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 5 2007, 01:38 PM

loading second stage prop has slipped a day. You can draw your own conclusions

Posted by: ugordan Jul 5 2007, 01:40 PM

Based on what? Why did it slip?

Posted by: djellison Jul 5 2007, 02:06 PM

I'm going to go for Alligator chewing the nozzle of a GEM.

Without any more info - it's the best I can do

Doug

Posted by: ugordan Jul 5 2007, 02:35 PM

If this were a V2 rocket I'd say someone drank all the fuel, but hydrazine is a bit too much even for those who really can take their liquor...

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 5 2007, 03:46 PM

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/

24 hours. The thing with the dates appears to be true, but still no explanation as to why they can suddenly work the 15-19 without a Mars delay that I've seen.

Posted by: djellison Jul 5 2007, 03:49 PM

Was just about to cite the same source..

"A mismatch between temperatures inside the rocket's nose cone and the second stage caused the vehicle to be a bit too warm for the fueling process to begin at launch pad 17B this morning, a NASA spokesperson explained. The temperatures are being adjusted today in hopes of starting the oxidizer filling later this afternoon." from www.spaceflightnow.com

Posted by: mchan Jul 5 2007, 10:26 PM

I did not find the article in Astronomy Now. What were the constraints on the asteroid selection? What other asteroids were considered besides Pallas?

At a glance, Pallas has a high inclination and would be difficult to get to if it is out of the same plane as Ceres in the post-Ceres timeframe. It is of similar (but not identical) spectral type as Ceres. Were other spectral types under consideration? S and C-types have or will have had flybys. Rosetta will flyby 21 Lutetia, an M-type. Vesta is atypical. It would be good to look at something not seen before at close range.

Posted by: edstrick Jul 6 2007, 08:00 AM

*ALL* of the "big-4" asteroids will be interesting and different from anything else. Pallas and Juno, as I recall, have somewhat atypical spectra, again indicating large-body processes or special conditions.

While itsy-bitsy 3-5 km asteroids may not be as spectacular as one of the big-boys, they probably will tend to have relatively fresh, non-space-weathered regoliths and perhaps (statistically) more chance to show what they are actually made of, and what the structure of the bodies they are pieces of were.. perhaps. Gaspra, Ida, etc, were more than a bit enigmatic.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 6 2007, 12:07 PM

Another 24 hr delay

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 6 2007, 04:27 PM

I'm told they are going to hold a meeting later today and reassess the plan for July and what dates they would have. Fueling of the second stage has not happened yet.

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 6 2007, 07:18 PM

KSC is saying that all options are on the table and that the blackout from the 10th to 15th is not definite. They will asses the availability of the range aircraft vs ship, see how many days they can try, etc and make a decision today or tomorrow.

Posted by: nprev Jul 6 2007, 08:37 PM

Damn. What exactly is driving this latest slip, support asset availability as you described?

EDIT: Sorry, never mind; problem with a tracking aircraft. I need to learn how to click on links & read before asking silly questions on the board...

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 6 2007, 08:39 PM

If the problems keep mounting, the mission should be renamed this. All it would require is inverting the "w."

Posted by: nprev Jul 6 2007, 08:59 PM

...well, all we can hope for is that its full name will someday be "The Best Damn Asteroid Mission, Period!"

Posted by: punkboi Jul 6 2007, 09:05 PM

Chances of acceptable weather on Tuesday (7/10) if Dawn can't get off on Monday: 70%... According to Floridatoday.com

Here's hoping NASA will extend the launch window by this just one day to increase Dawn's chances of getting the heck off the ground. Forget Phoenix...what with that MARDI foul-up and all. J/k.

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 6 2007, 11:45 PM

Hate to be the informer but its NET July 15 now. I have a feeling...

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jul 7 2007, 12:11 AM

Jeez, this is turning from bad to rotten, quickly. I wonder if Ed "The Axe" Weiler were still running SMD whether he would be close to saying, "Take it off the pad and ship it to NASM."

Posted by: mars loon Jul 7 2007, 02:19 AM

Here is the latest just in on the July 15 launch target from spaceflightnow.com

------

FRIDAY, JULY 6, 2007
2355 GMT (7:55 p.m. EDT)

ANOTHER DELAY. The Dawn asteroid exploration mission won't be launching before Sunday, July 15, NASA officials announced Friday evening after extensive decisions about the availability of downrange tracking assets and the overall readiness to go fly.

The United Launch Alliance Delta 2-Heavy rocket stands fully assembled with Dawn nestled inside the vehicle's nose cone at Cape Canaveral's pad 17B.

But this is the third delay in the past two days for the launch. Stormy weather prevented the Delta 2 rocket's second stage from being fueled on Thursday, forcing the liftoff to be delayed from Saturday to Sunday. NASA decided early Friday morning to slip the launch another 24 hours - to Monday - because of troubles with a telemetry-relay aircraft.

Problems with the tracking plane and delays getting a substitute ship into the Atlantic Ocean region has been a source of headaches for the launch officials. Either the aircraft or the instrumented ship is required to receive telemetry from the rocket during the second and third stage firings off the west-central coast of Africa. Without a mobile tracking asset in place, engineers would have no insight or data while those critical events of the launch occur.

NASA is racing against the calendar because Dawn's current launch opportunity closes July 19, giving just a few days left to get the spacecraft on the required trajectory to fly past Mars for a sling-shot maneuver and then into the asteroid belt for its rendezvous with Vesta and Ceres over the next eight years.

If this period is missed, another one opens in September and extends through late October.

What impact, if any, this latest delay could have to the planned August 3 launch of the Mars lander Phoenix aboard another Delta 2 rocket from the neighboring pad is not immediately clear. The alignment of the planets dictates a tight August 3 to August 24 window for the Phoenix liftoff to happen.

The start of Dawn's mission to examine up close two of the solar system's largest asteroids has been hit by a number of setbacks, including outright cancellation of the project in March 2006. After a heated controversy, NASA restarted the mission less than a month later.

Plans called for the launch to happen June 20, but that date was scrapped because more time was needed to prepare the Delta rocket before on-pad assembly could start. Then a targeted June 30 launch day was doomed when the pad's crane developed a problem last month, causing a hiatus in attaching the solid-fuel boosters.

Launch on July 15 would be possible during a window stretching from 3:22 to 3:54 p.m. EDT.

Posted by: Analyst Jul 7 2007, 01:15 PM

AFAIK all delays from June 20th onwards have nothing to do with the spacecraft itself but with the launch vehicle or support equipment (tracking assets, crane etc.). I repeat myself with saying this isn't only bad luck but also a lack of planning, contincency planning, lack of strategy etc.

Analyst

Posted by: djellison Jul 7 2007, 01:21 PM

Anyone who has read and understood Jim's posts can see why the situation is as it is - and given the resources available, no ammount of contingency or planning could have avoided it.

Doug

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 7 2007, 02:39 PM

Not so. You have no clue what is going on. No amount of planning would have avoided these "things" and allowed Dawn to launch any earlier. The strategy is to launch Dawn ASAP

1. Crane. Crap happens. No amount of planning would avoid this
2. TM airplane upon returning from depot maintenance experiences a delamination of an aileron
3. TM airplane experiences failure in mission equipment
4. TM ship experiences stronger currents than planned
5. weather

A. TM airplane is owned by the Army and supports many users, most with higher priorities
B. The TM equipment is owned by the USAF and the boat is chartered.
C. NASA "contracts" both for assets, but they managed by their owning org, NASA just requests where they are needed and when. How they get their is determined by the owning org.


Let's see you put together a decision matrix to take all this into account. Meanwhile, spacecraft contractor is charging for the delays and ULA is charging for the delays (TM is a NASA requirement).

Posted by: nprev Jul 7 2007, 03:00 PM

Yeow. Sounds horribly familiar, Jim, and I agree with you. The only thing in your list that makes me mad is that delaminated aileron; that definitely should have been caught & fixed by the Depot contractor, and I hope NASA/DCMA(?) is raising hell with them about it...pretty shoddy.

Come to that, though, most planes need at least two weeks to shake out problems after coming out of Depot; pity there apparently isn't enough asset depth to permit this to happen & it had to fly a hot mission so soon.

Posted by: ugordan Jul 7 2007, 03:04 PM

I blame everything that's happened on gremlins.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 7 2007, 03:59 PM

It is not NASA's plane.

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 7 2007, 08:42 PM

It's off till September officially. :-(

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jul 7 2007, 08:54 PM

Since they didn't fuel the second stage, I gather (based on the press conference) that they will have a longer September window than if they had been forced to find a new second stage. That's a (very) small sliver lining.

TTT

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 7 2007, 09:01 PM

I believe the September window (planetary window) opens Sept. 7. I might be wrong though.

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jul 7 2007, 11:08 PM

All...

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2007/jul/HQ_07150_Dawn_postpone_Sep.html

"NASA will hold a news briefing at 11:30 a.m. EDT on Monday, July 9, to preview the launch of the Phoenix Mars Lander. Prior to the Phoenix presentations, media will have the opportunity to learn in more detail about the rescheduled Dawn launch.[i][u] The briefing will originate from the NASA Headquarters auditorium, 300 E St., S.W., Washington. It will air live on NASA Television and be streamed online at: http://www.nasa.gov/ntv"

Craig

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 7 2007, 11:23 PM

SFN story:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/delta/d325/070707delay.html

Posted by: nprev Jul 8 2007, 01:00 AM

(sigh)...

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 8 2007, 01:02 AM

Florida Today's blog reports "late September" window opening. Since they did not give out a date, it might be dependent on when Phoenix gets off the ground. There is also a GPS satellite due to launch in September from 17, so they might have some things to rework (I think GPS was going to be pad B originally, maybe not anymore).

Posted by: punkboi Jul 8 2007, 05:42 AM

Yep. Gotta make sure Phoenix launches in time so it can make its May 2008 collision with the Martian surface. J/k.

Posted by: edstrick Jul 8 2007, 07:51 AM

The whole sorry list of excuses involving the range problems simply shows how badly range capabilities have deteoriated (I believe there were congressional hearings on it a few years ago!), and how fragile currently obsolescent systems are to the lack of redundancy, etc.

The "NewSpace" companies like SpaceX are flying innovative capabilities while things like Delta-II are flying what's probably cannot-purchase-new-if-you-wanted-it-now capabilities, and we're at their mercy.

(Query: How was Falcon's flight telemetry and video transmitted and relayed?... Kwaj range resources, or what?)

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 8 2007, 12:50 PM

The range capabilities have not "deteoriated ". The Eastern Range never had the capability to support these requirements. Outside agencies (ARIA, etc) were always brought in to fill the holes. This is an mostly issue for planetary missions, the earth escape burns are scattered all over the globe and there is never a fixed TM site near by. Also NASA has the requirement to monitor every engine burn, which wasn't always in effect in past years

2. Not true. Spacex would have the same issues. It used standard range resources. Spacex might not have the same TM requirements. NASA has the requirement to monitor every engine burn. And NASA bought the Delta II's as is

TDRSS is the fix but the design of the Delta II would require 2 transmitters, one for the 2nd stage and one for the 3rd. This adds more $$$ and less payload mass. There is resistant to add the capability (Delta IV and Atlas V have them) and rightly so, since the Delta II line will end so

Posted by: stevesliva Jul 9 2007, 03:11 PM

I have to admit that after being internet-less for a wedding this weekend, I find the events here confusing, more so by the muddled reporting from various news sources.

What happened to trying today or next week? Did the plane's wings fall off or something?

Posted by: elakdawalla Jul 9 2007, 05:49 PM

Maybe this will help...
http://www.planetary.org/news/2007/0709_Earths_Weather_Forces_Dawn_Launch.html

--Emily

Posted by: Littlebit Jul 9 2007, 07:32 PM

Interesting gamble: Risk $5m to save $20m, if an early launch can be pulled off.

From the discussion on this board, isn't it clear factors other than weather were important in delaying the launch prior to the final 3-day window?

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 9 2007, 07:52 PM

I just want to clarify. Both Dawn's and Phoenix's rockets are already stacked. The problem is not that you cannot launch on one pad while there is a rocket on the other; they do that all the time. What they don't do is launch while a spacecraft is on the other pad. Dawn itself will be removed, but its rocket will remain. Likewise, Dawn would have launched with Phoenix's Delta on the opposite pad, but not Phoenix itself, which would have waited for Dawn to go and the pad to be cleaned up before being mounted atop.

Posted by: elakdawalla Jul 9 2007, 08:35 PM

Woops, I misunderstood. I've made various changes to the article to correct this. Thanks, Ben.

--Emily

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 9 2007, 11:24 PM

No problem just want to help :-)

It looks like Sept. 7th is indeed the opening of the window with a launch in the morning (9am-ish maybe).

Posted by: elakdawalla Jul 9 2007, 11:28 PM

Wonder why Jim Green refused to be at all specific on the date that the period opens during the press conference.

--Emily

Posted by: BPCooper Jul 9 2007, 11:32 PM

It may be true that if Phoenix doesn't get off till late in the window, they can't get Dawn up in time for Sept. 7. But I don't know. Florida Today has a quote in their blog today saying "Sept. 7 to about Oct. 17."

http://floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=news02

Posted by: edstrick Jul 10 2007, 09:30 AM

"...The range capabilities have not "deteoriated ". The Eastern Range never had the capability to support these requirements..."

I'd have to dig in buried boxes containing Aviation Weeks and Space Newses and internet printouts to find the materials on range problems and I can't for some months to be able to back up my overall allegation-from-memory of range problems. On the specific interplay of problems here, I'll have to take your info as based on much more accurate specifics than my generalized and faded memory of old articles.

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jul 10 2007, 11:31 AM

Only Apollo placed ships and aircraft to monitor all burns. ELV's never had the luxury. ARIA went away because there weren't enough users

Posted by: gpurcell Jul 10 2007, 02:01 PM

How does this slip change the mission profile (e.g. arrival dates, potential mission extensions)?