ESA Press Efforts, Moved posts Options

[dvandorn]

This is only true for image data for the most part and even then the automatically published data isn't truly raw and direct from the image sensors as in both cases it is automatically contrast stretched before being exposed to the unwashed masses.
I'm not complaining at all as this approach is a great balance between providing the public and amateur enthusiast with the one thing they want most of all - pretty pictures delivered almost "live" - without truly risking much in the way of leaking any ground breaking revelations or discoveries. It is also worth while noting that the data that is at the root of almost all of the MER's most fundamental discoveries (e.g. the APXS\Mossbauer\MiniTES) is never released early or automatically and the same seems to apply to the non image Cassini data.

All very true. The reason for that, I think, is that the non-imaging data *does* require interpretation by the professionals for us non-professionals to be able to make any sense of. Just looking at APXS or Mossbauer raw results would be pretty much like trying to read Greek, for me. Someone would have to interpret what those results mean for them to be meaningful to me, and I *do* understand that this is a process that takes some time.

However, as I said, cameras are non-specific data gathering instruments (leaving aside for the moment the use of multiple wavelengths and analyzing wavelength differences for compositional clues). They provide images that non-professionals can view and evaluate -- and as we've seen on this forum, even non-professionals can occasionally make very good and interesting observations. Even when only working with contrast-enhanced and compressed images.

That's why, IMHO, it's relatively important (and more rewarding) to have as many eyes as possible looking at every image returned from every spacecraft we send out into the Solar System.

If anyone has any doubts as to what can happen when you expose as many people as possible to these images, just re-read Steve Squyre's preface to Roving Mars. After spending a *day* in Cornell's Mars Room and reviewing everything they had of the Viking lander images, the man became committed to a life course that delivered to all Mankind the accomplishments of Spirit and Opportunity.

How many children and young adults would become "hooked" on Mars or Venus if ESA's images were published as soon as they arrived? And how many of them might be the ones to lead the next major efforts to explore those planets?

How much are we, as a race, losing because the Wizards want to keep their secrets close to their vests...?

-the other Doug

[dvandorn]

...there is precedent for forcing data release and opening it up for competitive scientific analysis.

That's actually a positive thing, I think -- but has there been any allowance made to protect the careers of the researchers from being derailed because they can't get their work published before someone else runs with it?

I'm just afraid that forced release will simply drive bright and able researchers away from those fields. We need some system that allows everyone to shine and gives everyone due credit while allowing everyone to share what they learn, quickly and completely.

Like all pundits, I know where the destination is, and what it looks like. Where the road is, and how to navigate it, I haven't a clue... *sigh*...

-the other Doug

[Stu]

After spending a *day* in Cornell's Mars Room and reviewing everything they had of the Viking lander images, the man became committed to a life course that delivered to all Mankind the accomplishments of Spirit and Opportunity.

How many children and young adults would become "hooked" on Mars or Venus if ESA's images were published as soon as they arrived? And how many of them might be the ones to lead the next major efforts to explore those planets?

THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone hits the nail on the head. It's not just about us, it's about the "next us". Every time I give a talk in a school I try fan the flames of the kids' interest in the hope that I'll inspire one of them to go grab a book off a shelf and learn a bit more after I've gone. I've been giving school talks for (oh my god!!!) almost 20 years now, must have talked to many thousands of kids in that time, and hopefully some of them have gone on to study and work in science, maybe even space exploration, I don't know. But it's such a visual topic, space exploration, that it's absolutely essential to have the latest pics to show the kids, or they won't believe that space exploration is going on NOW, and wasn't all finished in the days of Apollo, as they're taught in history, I can't stress that enough.

As for Steve S being inspired by those Viking images, the same happened to me, only in my case the images were in a paint-stained copy of NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC tossed into a corner of my art class and forgotten about until an inquisitive 16yr old found it and... um... sneaked it home to look at it in private. I've still got it, over there on the "Mars" shelf of my bookcase. I guess it's why I'm here on UMSF.

Somewhere, out there right now, I guarantee you, is a kid, maybe in the UK, maybe in France, or Germany, or China, or on some tiny Pacific island, surfing the net, looking for pictures of Mars because they have to write about it for their science homework... they've heard that a probe flew past Mars recently and took some very cool pics of it... If the multiverse theory is correct, then in one universe that kid just clicked on an image link labelled "Mars as seen by Rosetta as it headed back into space" and their screen lit up with an image of a crescent Mars, the sunlit side over-exposed and glaring, but still beautiful, beautiful enough to make the kid think "Hmmm... interesting..." and click on NEXT to see more images of Mars, again and again until their homework is forgotten and they're looking at Mars because it's actually interesting... the seed is planted, they're now "into space" and go on to get more deeply involved in it... becoming, well, who can tell..?

Meanwhile, in this 'verse, the kid looks for those "very cool pics"... and looks... and looks...

But they're not there.

Ah, homework can wait. Time to plug in the games console...

[djellison]

Somewhere, out there right now, I guarantee you, is a kid, maybe in the UK, maybe in France, or Germany, or China, or on some tiny Pacific island, surfing the net, looking for pictures of Mars because they have to write about it for their science homework...

I hope they can do Jupiter instead. NH is pulling a blinder with the flyby and the way their getting involved with the public - it's an inspiration, and a gold mark standard.

Doug

[Juramike]

Yup. I remember spending a day home from school as the Voyager pics of Jupiter's moons came down on a public access channel. Many years later, I still remember that day vividly. The idea of being "there live" as discoveries are made is powerful.

I would propose that all the data be released as soon as acquired. Those scientists that are pursuing that particular research topic should be able to easily out-compete the rest based on their prior experience in the area. And if they are not comfortable with the competition, then we must realize that science is continual process of challenge, not complacency. The more data freely available, the more ideas are generated, the more scientists are created, the faster science advances. Think "open source code" vs. proprietary software.

-Mike

[Stu]

I hope they can do Jupiter instead.
Doug

Sadly not... as I understand it, they spent the rest of the night on their game console, fell asleep, then got detention the next day for not doing their homework. In detention they had to sit next to a gang member, fell under their spell, joined their gang, skipped more and more school... got into fights and trouble with the police... started doing drugs... held up a bank... got caught and thrown into jail, killed a guy in there in a fight over a bowl of soup and their whole life was wasted...

... and it was all ESA's fault!

I hope they're satisfied!!!

[djellison]

Can't deny the logic.

[dvandorn]

Yup. I remember spending a day home from school as the Voyager pics of Jupiter's moons came down on a public access channel. Many years later, I still remember that day vividly. The idea of being "there live" as discoveries are made is powerful.

I remember, in the magical summer of 1969 when humans were just *steps* away from the stars, that less than a month after the first manned lunar landing, the TV networks carried the arrival of Mars pictures from Mariners 6 and 7. Live.

We watched images build up, line by vertical line, over the course of minutes. As they were received at JPL, they were flashed across our TV screens.

Even before that, I remember the very first time any TV broadcast ever used (or could use) the title overlay "Live from the Moon" on a live news broadcast. It was the flight of Ranger IX. At the age of nine I was able to watch the Moon swell from image to image, as Ranger executed its suicide dive into Alphonsus Crater.

Oh, yes -- NASA has a long history of sharing the results of their planetary missions, live and (when possible) in color. (When not, in glorious black and white... )

I was very, very interested in Project Mercury, it's true. But I can date my extreme fascination with extraterrestrial geology to that astonished nine-year-old, watching the lunar surface rushing up at me and realizing that it was happening RIGHT NOW! (Well, OK, 1.3 seconds ago... )

-the other Doug

[tedstryk]

Perhaps this thread should be retitled. I don't know if the word "effort" belongs anywhere near "ESA" and "press" without the words "lack of" somewhere near by.

[Stu]

Mars, as seen by 7yd old "Sam" from one of the school classes I talked to recently...



I have several envelopes full of "thank you" letters and cards and pictures like this, from several hundred different kids. If they didn't mean so much to me I'd bundle them up send them to ESA, in the hope that someone there looked at them and actually realised how important outreach and educational efforts are.

'Cos we need to do something, I really believe that.

[ustrax]

Hey Stu, can "Sam" provide an anaglyph?

'Cos we need to do something, I really believe that.

Yes, me too...

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Astrolab/SEMBVOSMTWE_0.html
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/es...tudent_art.html

[The Messenger]

NASA has been very helpful in this regard; ESA isn't charged for the time, but on the other hand we get whatever time is left over. We put in requests; if no one else needs that antenna at that time, they give it to us. We are always in a position to get bumped, but it hasn't happened yet.

Perhaps one looking for data from the Venus Express should file a freedom of information request from NASA. If NASA is providing free down links to the ESA, the information downlinked should be freely available to the US public...yes/no?

[ElkGroveDan]

Perhaps one looking for data from the Venus Express should file a freedom of information request from NASA. If NASA is providing free down links to the ESA, the information downlinked should be freely available to the US public...yes/no?

No. That's not what the FOIA is for.

[cndwrld]

Cosmic Vision: now with more PR goodness

ESA is in the process of mapping out their future mission architecture for 2015 - 2025, in a process called Cosmic Vision. One thing that has been changed compared with past efforts is that PR is now included as one of the selection criteria. From their web site, the criteria are:

8. Selection criteria
The proposals will be selected through an evaluation process involving peer review teams and their results scrutinised and endorsed by the Science Programme advisory structure under the SSAC. The following primary selection criteria will be applied:
• Scientific value, i.e. scientific excellence to provide a large potential for discovery and innovation;
• Programmatic validity, i.e. conformity with the themes established by Cosmic Vision (Annex 1) and timeliness of the mission;
• High “science for money” rating, i.e. high scientific return versus required financial investments;
• Timeliness, i.e. relevance of the science goal within the foreseen launch date;
• Level of technology maturity and technical feasibility;
• Cost to ESA with respect to the envelope constraints for Class M and L missions respectively;
• Cost to Member States (including payload, data processing and distribution for M missions…);
• Overall programme risk;
• Communication potential.

In the Annex, this is spelled out a bit more:
Communication and Outreach The communication potential of the mission should be described and the proposed communication-outreach activities, as well as the means to carry them out, should be outlined.
In the case of a collaborative proposal, elaboration of the role of each party in the collaboration is required.

All the stuff can be found at: http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/in...fobjectid=40794

As I understand it, the PR work has never before been considered as a Selection Criteria before. So if you are seriously looking for progress, I think this is an encouraging sign.

Cheers-

Don

[Greg Hullender]

No. That's not what the FOIA is for.

Note, however, that Man is distinguished from the lower animals by his ability to misuse tools.

--Greg :-)