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Sliding into 'Home Plate North', Heading for Spirit's 2008 Winter Retreat
Astro0
post Nov 2 2007, 04:55 AM
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So, perhaps a new topic is warranted now that the MER team has decided on the location for Spirit's 2008 winter retreat - 'Home Plate North'. (See: Planetary Society MER Update)

So, first question to our UMSF team - 'Could someone pinpoint the winter location on a Hi-Rise photo of Home Plate?'
Attached Image

Tesheiner's route map (above).

I note with interest, that the last time I started a topic on Spirit (Spirit's New Adventures - The Mission Beyond 1,000 Sols) it was on November 7th, 2006. As I write this, it's November 2nd 2007 and we are seeing the Rovers move into their THIRD Martian year (coming up to four Earth years).

An incredible achievement, an incredible journey, and it's not over yet!

Astro0
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dvandorn
post Nov 2 2007, 05:07 AM
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I really think Spirit ought to traverse along the western edge of HP to get to the north slopes. I'm still intrigued by the large crack that runs parallel to the west edge -- I can think of a lot less interesting places to visit on HP than that long crack.

If we're going to find anything different on top of HP than we found along the edges, that crack is the first palce I'd be looking for it.

-the other Doug


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alan
post Nov 2 2007, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Astro0 @ Nov 1 2007, 11:55 PM) *
So, first question to our UMSF team - 'Could someone pinpoint the winter location on a Hi-Rise photo of Home Plate?'

Astro0

The steepest north facing part of Home plate is the area where Spirit first arrived. I suspect they selected a spot 10 m east of Gibson.
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Stu
post Nov 2 2007, 08:15 PM
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So we'll be resting up near my fave ever rock, "Mackay"? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


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peter59
post Nov 2 2007, 10:49 PM
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I'm completly dissapointed. Spirit's days are really counted,
only 355 watt-hours 4 or 5 months before winter. Undoubtedly
it's last Spirit's weeks, maybe months. It's very bad decision,
Goodard / von Braun should be the last target.


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djellison
post Nov 2 2007, 10:52 PM
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Drive to Goddard and Spirit WILL die.

Drive somewhere with better slopes, and it probably wont and Goddard will still be there next Spring.

It's a no brainer. Given our very low power experience of the dust storm- there's no reason to think this winter will be any less survivable than the last.

Excessive doom-mongering or misinformation (such as 'Undoubtedly it's last Spirit's weeks') are utterly unjustified and will not be tolerated on this forum.

Doug
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brellis
post Nov 3 2007, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE
Drive somewhere with better slopes, and it probably wont and Goddard will still be there next Spring.


It's amazing how longterm the planning has gotten for these rovers. If they are still working at the time of MSL's arrival, the comm relay schedule will get pretty crowded!

Speculative question: could there come a time when budget constraints limit the mission, or force planners to send the rovers to riskier targets in order to fit an arbitrary mission time frame? That would be very unfortunate.
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CosmicRocker
post Nov 3 2007, 04:23 AM
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Well, the decision to delay the visit to von Braun until the next Martian spring is yet another brutal reminder of the realities of 'extreme' robotic exploration on an alien planet. I don't know that attempting a drive to von Braun/Goddard "WILL" result in Spirit's demise, but I've learned over the past several years not to second-guess the "rover handlers." They obviously know what it is they are doing. smile.gif I interpret the long term planning as well-earned optimism. I probably would have voted for a less conservative layover, but the recent global dust storm has taught us just how valuable 10 watt-hrs can be when sunlight is limited.


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nprev
post Nov 3 2007, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE (brellis @ Nov 2 2007, 07:11 PM) *
It's amazing how longterm the planning has gotten for these rovers. If they are still working at the time of MSL's arrival, the comm relay schedule will get pretty crowded!


Been thinking about that. I think that the chief limiting factor will be DSN coverage, which in addition to rising maintenance problems will also be tasked to support several other missions at the same time. I'm sure that there's a scheduling solution at least under development, but it will definitely be a challenge.


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Astro0
post Nov 4 2007, 06:15 AM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 3 2007, 04:53 PM) *
Been thinking about that. I think that the chief limiting factor will be DSN coverage, which in addition to rising maintenance problems will also be tasked to support several other missions at the same time.


The DSN has always risen to these sorts of challenges.
Data return is number one along with maintenance - infact the majority is preventative maintenance rather than reactionary.
There have been some problems recently (Madrid's 70-metre bearing and pump filter problems come to mind), but other than that, the DSN continues to be the unsung heroes of space exploration. You don't leave here, get there and return cool data without us.
The downshift in current budgets is definitely tight, but the sheer dedication of the people working at the three antenna communication complexes will see it through.

Astro0
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climber
post Nov 4 2007, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Nov 3 2007, 05:23 AM) *
Well, the decision to delay the visit to von Braun until the next Martian spring is yet another brutal reminder of the realities of 'extreme' robotic exploration on an alien planet. I don't know that attempting a drive to von Braun/Goddard "WILL" result in Spirit's demise, but I've learned over the past several years not to second-guess the "rover handlers." They obviously know what it is they are doing. smile.gif I interpret the long term planning as well-earned optimism. I probably would have voted for a less conservative layover, but the recent global dust storm has taught us just how valuable 10 watt-hrs can be when sunlight is limited.

I (hate) to agree on that. I'd have liked the agressive plan to get to VB/G and not spend a full (very long) winter with no move even if the location will be visualy very nice. But we have so many experiences in mind, not only regarding Rovers, where JPL just did the right decision. You're talking about long term planning and I think that they're already planning what we're going to do this winter.
Hope they'll find a new "heaven" wink.gif


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fredk
post Nov 4 2007, 05:50 PM
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I was mostly surprised by the abruptness of the decision. Obviously that's a sign of the seriousness of the power situation this coming winter. I might have thought they'd get better imagery of the route towards von Braun/Goddard first, by driving a bit towards the "Saddle". In particular, the feature called Crossfield hasn't been imaged very well, and could have provided north-facing slopes along the route. Still, the imagery we have, plus the stereo hirise imagery, don't look promising.

There definitely appear to be very steep north facing slopes high enough up on von Braun, but the problem is driving up its slopes with five wheels. Perhaps more promising was the north facing outside rim of Goddard. But the pancam imagery looks like the approach may be slippery.

In the end, the north side of homeplate is easy to get to, and we don't have to drive upwards onto the slope, so we're essentially guaranteed to be able to get into a favourable position.
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fredk
post Nov 4 2007, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Nov 2 2007, 05:07 AM) *
I really think Spirit ought to traverse along the western edge of HP to get to the north slopes. I'm still intrigued by the large crack that runs parallel to the west edge -- I can think of a lot less interesting places to visit on HP than that long crack.


Your wish is the rover drivers' command.
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Aussie
post Nov 4 2007, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (fredk @ Nov 4 2007, 05:50 PM) *
I was mostly surprised by the abruptness of the decision. Obviously that's a sign of the seriousness of the power situation this coming winter.


It probably wasn't all that abrupt - we were just not privy to the decision making process and expected Spirit to thunder off in the direction of VB without delay. But the power situation does seem serious. During the storm the power levels were comparable to what we can expect this winter but the dust provided a warmer environment. While Spirit can probably survive the winter it will be a close run thing and we can not expect much work. But then again, she had surprised us with cleaning events before.
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dvandorn
post Nov 5 2007, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE (fredk @ Nov 4 2007, 02:44 PM) *

Lovely! That crack is a little thinner than it looks from above... but the system still looks constructional to me (as opposed to dessicative).

Oh, how I wish we still had a working RAT on Spirit! I'd love to take a good close look at the vertical faces in the top 10cm of the crack (i.e., the exposed face).

-the other Doug


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