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New Mars Express And Huygens Results, ESA conference - November 30, 2005
Guest_paulanderson_*
post Nov 22 2005, 06:15 PM
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http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMA96ULWFE_index_0.html

Relating to Mars Express:

"At the same time, ESA’s Mars Express mission is continuing its investigations of Mars, painting a new picture of the 'red planet'. This includes the first ever probing below the surface of Mars, new geological clues with implications for the climate, newly-discovered surface and atmospheric features and, above all, traces of the presence of water on this world."
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 7 2005, 07:37 AM
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Since the ESA -- to my amazement -- seems to be serious about flying ExoMars (maybe serious enough to cancel BepiColombo for it), the obvious question is: should both it AND MSL be sent to phyllosilicate sites, or should one of them be sent to a different type of terrain, such as a Meridiani-type sulfate deposit? (A pretty strong case can be made, actually, that they SHOULD both go to diferent phyllosilicate sites.)
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JonClarke
post Dec 8 2005, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 7 2005, 07:37 AM)
Since the ESA -- to my amazement -- seems to be serious about flying ExoMars (maybe serious enough to cancel BepiColombo for it), the obvious question is: should both it AND MSL be sent to phyllosilicate sites, or should one of them be sent to a different type of terrain, such as a Meridiani-type sulfate deposit?  (A pretty strong case can be made, actually, that they SHOULD both go to diferent phyllosilicate sites.)
*


I don't think there can be any dount that ExoMars has been a very serious and strong contender of a future Mars mission for quite some time. So it is good that it looks like full funding has now been confirmed through 2011.

The phillosilicate sites are as follows:

1. Isemenius Lacus – slightly rougher at MOC scale than the MER sites, rare mesas, fairly featureless 34.0 N

2. Syrtis Major site – somewhat rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, lots of rampart craters, diversity of surface geological units, channel-like feature, 19.91 degrees N

3. Mwarth Vallis site – much rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, diversity of surface geological units, distinct channel-like feature, 24.54 N

4. Nili Fossae site – very much rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, diversity of surface geological units, rift-like features, mesas, dunes, possible fans 24.54 N

As you would expect, the more interesting the site the rougher the topography. I would suggest that site 2 is a good compromise although i would like 3 or 4. A lot depends on the nature of the landing system as to how rough a site it can land in, both in respect to small scale surface roughness and hazard avoidance. All of these sites are within the 45 degrees N or S of the equator limits specified by ExoMars.

Opportunity went to Merdiani in search of haematite and found sulphate as the big item. ExoMars will go to Syrtis (or wherever) and will find ?????

Jon
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Guest_paulanderson_*
post Dec 8 2005, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (JonClarke @ Dec 7 2005, 05:11 PM)
The phillosilicate sites are as follows:

1. Isemenius Lacus – slightly rougher at MOC scale than the MER sites, rare mesas, fairly featureless 34.0 N

2. Syrtis Major site – somewhat rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, lots of rampart craters, diversity of surface geological units, channel-like feature, 19.91 degrees N

3. Mwarth Vallis site – much rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, diversity of surface geological units, distinct channel-like feature, 24.54 N

4. Nili Fossae site – very much rougher at all scales compared to equivalent imagery of MER sites, diversity of surface geological units, rift-like features, mesas, dunes, possible fans 24.54 N
*

What about the Terra Meridiani and Arabia Terra regions, as also listed by ESA? Isemenius Lacus too? Not mentioned in the ESA list, and I couldn't find it on the Mars maps I have, even looking at 34.0 N. Are there any others that you know of?
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JonClarke
post Dec 9 2005, 03:21 AM
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QUOTE (paulanderson @ Dec 8 2005, 08:44 PM)
What about the Terra Meridiani and Arabia Terra regions, as also listed by ESA? Isemenius Lacus too? Not mentioned in the ESA list, and I couldn't find it on the Mars maps I have, even looking at 34.0 N. Are there any others that you know of?
*


I described those 4 sites because the paper had pictures and coordinates for them.

Meridiani we know something of already. Arabia is a big place on Mars and no site was specified (unless it is Bcquerel), same with some other places mantioned - Xanthe, Isidis, Luna and Hellas. These are all very small deposits, apparently.

Becquerel is an interesting spot though, it hosts the infamous "White Rock" deposit, as well as these clays. White rock is very rough, but the craster floor is smooth, at lot will depend on how accurate the landing system is I guess, and how well it copes with hazzards.

Isemenius Lacus is a classic dark albedo feature. The nearest "real" feature is Isemeniae Fossae. The clay patch seems to be in the middle of the crater Focas.

With respect to ExoMars, there seemed to be quite a bit of support for the idea of equipping it with a PAW at the April EGU. Plus my recollection is that the airbags being considered are the so-called "deadbeat" type, that almost immediately deflate on impact, rather like those of a car. Since the CEV is supposed to have this type as well it suggests that this approach can handle much heavier loads than the bouncing type.

Jon
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Posts in this topic
- paulanderson   New Mars Express And Huygens Results   Nov 22 2005, 06:15 PM
- - RNeuhaus   Anyone will assist to the conference in Paris on N...   Nov 22 2005, 07:22 PM
- - paulanderson   Just a reminder that the press briefing is tomorro...   Nov 29 2005, 10:46 PM
- - SigurRosFan   http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Results_from_M...7ZTUL...   Nov 30 2005, 03:27 PM
- - Sunspot   PARIS -- The European Space Agency will unveil wid...   Nov 30 2005, 03:28 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I think there's a good chance that they're...   Nov 30 2005, 03:30 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Dammit, I wrote that just before seeing SigurdRosF...   Nov 30 2005, 03:31 PM
- - Marz   "If we look at today's evidence, the era ...   Nov 30 2005, 03:34 PM
- - tty   Note that clay minerals also occur in Meridiani, p...   Nov 30 2005, 05:43 PM
- - dvandorn   Doubtful that the underlying deposits at Meridiani...   Nov 30 2005, 05:49 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Radar Soundings of the Subsurface of Mars Picardi,...   Nov 30 2005, 06:00 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 30 2005, 06:00 PM)...   Dec 8 2005, 06:50 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   The December 1, 2005, issue of Nature is now onlin...   Nov 30 2005, 06:15 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 30 2005, 06:15 PM)...   Nov 30 2005, 06:46 PM
- - deglr6328   I have access to Nature.....Shall I do something n...   Nov 30 2005, 06:18 PM
|- - mike   I was going to defend Nature's charging to vie...   Nov 30 2005, 08:22 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 30 2005, 12:22 PM)I was goi...   Nov 30 2005, 08:33 PM
||- - JonClarke   Publishing in Nature achieves several things. Firs...   Nov 30 2005, 09:53 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (JonClarke @ Nov 30 2005, 01:53 PM)Most...   Nov 30 2005, 10:45 PM
|||- - JonClarke   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 30 2005, 10:45 PM)And...   Dec 1 2005, 08:01 AM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (JonClarke @ Nov 30 2005, 10:53 PM)...   Dec 1 2005, 10:31 PM
||- - JonClarke   QUOTE (helvick @ Dec 1 2005, 10:31 PM)+ much ...   Dec 2 2005, 01:07 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (mike @ Nov 30 2005, 09:22 PM)Why don...   Nov 30 2005, 08:46 PM
- - Phil Stooke   mcaplinger said: "I don't like it 'c...   Dec 1 2005, 03:57 AM
- - paulanderson   Getting back to today's results... As othe...   Dec 1 2005, 04:30 AM
- - RNeuhaus   About the title Radar reveals ice deep below Marti...   Dec 1 2005, 04:48 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I thought I remembered some earlier brief mentions...   Dec 2 2005, 08:01 AM
- - paulanderson   Re my contention about making the critical distinc...   Dec 6 2005, 05:54 PM
|- - JonClarke   I agree, there is a tendency to draw far reaching ...   Dec 6 2005, 11:19 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Since the ESA -- to my amazement -- seems to be se...   Dec 7 2005, 07:37 AM
|- - gpurcell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 7 2005, 07:37 AM)Sin...   Dec 7 2005, 02:10 PM
||- - ljk4-1   If they want to put human colonies on Mars, perhap...   Dec 7 2005, 02:55 PM
||- - JonClarke   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Dec 7 2005, 02:10 PM)So tha...   Dec 8 2005, 01:24 AM
|- - JonClarke   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 7 2005, 07:37 AM)Sin...   Dec 8 2005, 01:11 AM
|- - paulanderson   QUOTE (JonClarke @ Dec 7 2005, 05:11 PM)The p...   Dec 8 2005, 08:44 PM
|- - JonClarke   QUOTE (paulanderson @ Dec 8 2005, 08:44 PM)Wh...   Dec 9 2005, 03:21 AM
- - edstrick   Clearly, there needs to be close cooperation betwe...   Dec 7 2005, 08:26 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, keep in mind that the central goal of Martia...   Dec 7 2005, 01:58 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 7 2005, 08:58 AM)Wel...   Dec 7 2005, 02:58 PM
- - RNeuhaus   The above 4 mentioned sites of interest for ExoMar...   Dec 8 2005, 03:15 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Dec 8 2005, 04:15 PM)If MSL...   Dec 8 2005, 03:55 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (helvick @ Dec 8 2005, 03:55 PM)This pr...   Dec 8 2005, 09:32 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 8 2005, 10:32 PM)I w...   Dec 9 2005, 12:50 AM
- - edstrick   "Becquerel is an interesting spot though, it ...   Dec 9 2005, 09:19 AM
|- - JonClarke   QUOTE (edstrick @ Dec 9 2005, 09:19 AM)...   Dec 11 2005, 02:57 AM
- - RNeuhaus   I have another concern on ExoMars telecommunicatio...   Dec 9 2005, 02:17 PM
- - djellison   Come '11, there will be MRO (almost certainly)...   Dec 9 2005, 02:38 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 9 2005, 02:38 PM)I agr...   Dec 9 2005, 03:58 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   This gives more reason to think that, if MRO fails...   Dec 10 2005, 06:32 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 10 2005, 06:32 AM)Th...   Dec 10 2005, 07:46 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Dec 10 2005, 07:46 PM)...   Dec 14 2005, 04:26 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yes, poor McCleese must be feeling like Sisyphus a...   Dec 10 2005, 10:00 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (helvick @ Dec 8 2005, 03:55 PM)This pr...   Dec 11 2005, 02:36 AM
- - paulanderson   Another good clay article posted yesterday on Scie...   Dec 20 2005, 11:23 PM


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