UMSF Changes Ahead- PLEASE READ Options

[marsbug]

One of my favourite things about the place is the simplicity of layout. I think there's a good (and hard won) sense of accessibility of threads on any given topics, without losing how complex those topics are when you dig into them. Good luck to the admin team and staff, I know from experience that projects like this involve a lot of hunting down bugs, I appreciate the effort!

[PFK]

Some thoughts folks.
As a humble chemist I've not had much to add here over the years, though visit it most days. On some occasions I have been able to add something from a science background and have also asked for, and received, help in the past. I have pointed work colleagues and others with a vested interest to the site before now; how many have kept with it I don't know. People from other disciplines can help through expertise - I remember a powder Xray guy from, I think, UCL indexing the raw Xray data from the first such measurements from Mars for example. I've no idea whether or not he stuck with the site; the notion of trying to assess that data from people whose activity has dropped is an interesting one. Many may be like me, but for many the lack of login-in might just show they never visit.
Of course one issue is that at any one time there might not be much going on in terms of big name missions reaching their peak. So that's where something directing new or semi-lapsed members to things might be good. As with others I enjoy revisiting the build up to events; in just the last few months I went back through the immediate timeline to NH at Pluto and then Ultima and revisited, for the umpteenth time, the Huygens landing. Great stuff, and genuine historical records of events that are forever drifting further back in time - in less than 18 months it'll be the 20th anniversary of Huygens for example. So many of the students who'll start at my Uni next month, and who have a genuine space exploration interest, weren't even born! Add to that the amazing, custom made imaging we see then you've got a genuine resource. BUT it does need signposting - took me a while to figure out the start of the really crucial timelines for the events I mentioned.
So without compromising simplicity, I think some method of directly linking newcomers to the start of the really crucial phase of some of those stories so they can "relive" the excitement would be good (not just to the thread but to appropriate posts); same for the best images.
This site is a goldmine of info and of contributions from people actually doing the science (witness Alan coming on the NH threads). That in itself should attract people who are genuinely interested and won't just add to unwanted nonsense. They will also have their part to occasionally play with genuine insight into their respective fields. But it has to be "welcoming" in terms of directing them to things that showcase the site's greatness and they should feel able to ask a genuine question and get more than "google is your friend" as the answer.
As was mentioned in a thread a while back, never underestimate the value, away from pure science, that the efforts of people here involved in the missions themselves and in image processing can have. Given all that's gone on, and is still going on, over the last few years, the ability of these endeavours to take people away from the hassles of Earth should never be underestimated. This site can help with that enormously; keep it simple as many have said but also don't hide your light under a bushel!

[Explorer1]

I agree with PFK, some sort of 'greatest hits' list of the historical threads would be very useful for newcomers, though how to organize it may be tricky. Saving for posterity is the priority, and switching them to their own subforum may make navigation difficult (in addition to choosing which ones qualify).

[climber]

Re Alan coming on NH trait, I met him back in 2019 in Zurich and introduced myself as Climber from UNMSF… and he told me he knew me (!) with a bright smile and we talked like people sharing the same passion. This is what I don’t want to loose here

[tedstryk]

Like button, view counts (basic analytics), mobile friendly, dark mode, opt-in to notifications, friendlier search capability, some thought given to API access in the event RSF becomes popular enough that someone would want to create an App for it (or integrate into some existing app), need to still maintain unmannedspaceflight.com domain name to prevent breaking historic external links into UMFS, ability to serve large images intelligently (initial image appropriate resolution for device type and bandwidth, click for larger image, un-pinch to zoom to full-size image), also serve videos, sound files, 3D models, ability to export into an archive everything you've posted, make it easy for non-members to just consume content, have a feed/topic that just shows aggregation of new pictures/media added across site, have a unified calendar of upcoming space events the members could contribute to, open up to to more topics (eg allow calendar to have all upcoming launches even if crewed), act as hosting site for web based space themed apps (eg if someone wants to build a WebXR mars virtual environment, or improved catalog of data for some some mission), include the "share to" buttons (those who like to think they aren't being tracked online are already taking measures that they think counter the tracking), accessibility in terms of ADA compliance.

Obviously, some of the preceding are "spared no expense" ideas.

Also, I think this survey is highly subject so sampling bias. For a broader view, could also send a bulk email asking for feedback from people who were active contributors but left (eg query database for users with a few hundred posts spanning a couple years who haven't logged in >18 months).

Also curious about cost breakdown of $5K/year (reasonable for 2 hours of IT support a month, seems high if just for vBulletin cloud hosting)

I was not able to get any clear explanation of this. Also, I do not have access to enough information about the forum to determine whether or not they are overpaying.

[mcaplinger]

Also, I do not have access to enough information about the forum to determine whether or not they are overpaying.

The small amount of research I've done (which is probably old news to some of you and might just be wrong) seems to say that this forum is now locked in to using Invision, where costs range from $1K to $7K annually depending on volume ( https://invisioncommunity.com/buy ). Going to a cheaper hosting vendor would likely require porting all of the content to an open-source alternative like phpBB, which is certainly possible but will cost extra money and/or time.

[fredk]

I agree with most here about not sacrificing S/N ratio, keeping it in a forum rather than feed format, and, crucially I think, keeping older threads (including posted images) "alive", so they can be relived or added to. I also agree with many that the current format "ain't broke", and I've seen little functionality at other sites that I'd like to see here.

One of my few complaints is about large embedded images. Of course, being hosted on external servers, loading them doesn't affect the UMSF server, but loading a large image before javascript reduces it to a thumbnail is still inefficient. I don't know how to deal with that though, apart from encouraging people to post thumbnail links to the full-size images or somehow auto-generating thumbs on the UMSF server. Maybe somehow the UMSF server could enforce an image-size limit for embedded images?

No-one's mentioned threaded vs flat format. In my experience (eg with dpreview) a threaded forum wouldn't make sense for UM/RSF.

And if it means "going it alone" I too would be willing to help however I can...

(And I have no problem with a dark option, but it won't save energy on ordinary LCD monitors without backlight dimming zones...)

[stevesliva]

No-one's mentioned threaded vs flat format. In my experience (eg with dpreview) a threaded forum wouldn't make sense for UM/RSF.

There is an "Options" dropdown upper right that would allow you to see the "Outline" view of this topic. (You will see that this post is a reply to yours)

Google search results for this site seem to use that view.

FWIW the forums at dpreview appear to support a "flat" view. That software seems to waste acres and acres of screen space, though. A compact flat view is essential. I agree.

mcaplinger provides some good data on cost and our apparently proprietary forum software. With "free" like phpbb, honestly the costs of maintenance and admin might outstrip what IPS charges. Tough nut.

[MahFL]

Sadly change is inevitable...

[rlorenz]

I like the simple, clean layout. It's (relatively) easy to find old contributions. Good SNR and forum format.

Dont change the name (since it's a negative anyway, it isnt exclusionary).

I dont have strong feelings about dark mode

[vikingmars]

Dear Nprev,
Thank you for keeping us informed of some of your forecoming decisions.
I read all the posts with the good ideas.
As a Charter member of The Planetary Society, having witnessed most of its developments since its beginnings, and if I may suggest,
I would really keep the name "UMSF".
Over all those past years, UMSF became a worldwide 'brand', known for its community having a lot of experience and known also by planetary exploration specialists.
With best regards,
Olivier

[deedan06]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but I've been watching for a few years. Honestly there is not a lot in this forum that needs changing. Sure, its old, but even a young person like me can see that it has its charm. However the forom is in need of maintainance badly. The things that are broken do need fixing. It is not acceptable for a modern website not to use https. Also the forum ignores gmail addresses for some reason and just doesn't send them the verification E-mail.. I don't know why it does this, but a bug like this is counterintuitive if you want to get new members. So yeah, thats the thinks that are broken and that I'd personally like to be fixed.

Other than that, I do worry about the lack of new members. The only new member this year that actually posted something besides me is RAB. This place is shrinking. I've been watching this forum since the perserverance landing and while there are a few dedicated members there is hardly anyone new. Maybe we should make an collective twitter account to advertise this forum and get those parts of the community to join us, but maybe that would be to many new memers, as it is obviously not good if this place gets run over.
One last question. What was the planetary society like in the past? Right now they seem like a second NASA PR-Team which nobody needs, but apperantly they weren't always like that. How did they use to be?

[StargazeInWonder]

FWIW, I was a charter member of the Planetary Society when it launched; I wasn't terribly involved, but from the mailings, there was a spirit of advocacy, like they were trying to sway policy towards more exploration… maybe increasing public enthusiasm so as to make it more likely to get more missions funded. This was in the era when Viking, Pioneer Venus, and Voyager had already been funded but it wasn't clear where things were going, and the absence of a U.S. mission to Halley seemed like a sign that things were going in the wrong direction.

That was a long time ago; I'm sure there have been more than one twist and turn along the way.

[Barnard]

Please keep the UMSF name. It's a solid, solid brand that people will gravitate towards when something is happening.

Just upgrading to a new invision board like the following would be a good way to modernise. https://www.rllmukforum.com/ they also run the board there as LTD company.