Phobos-Grunt Options

[mps]

As far as I understand, they will launch Phobos-Grunt on a Zenit 2M/Fregat, which is upgraded Zenit 2. According to Wikipedia, 6 out of total 37 Zenit 2 launches were failures (the single Zenit 2M launch to date was successful). Not very impressive.

EDIT: Doug was faster. But I must point out that the most recent Zenit failures happened with Zenit 3SL (I think). Roscosmos doesn't use SeaLauch services.
OT: I myself trust only one Russian launcher: Soyuz. I hope Angara will change that.

[Big_Gazza]

I liked to see they chose Zenith, because in my opinion Proton is very unreliable.

To be entirely honest, I don't know if Zenit is more reliable than Proton. Admittedly there have been 5 successful launches since the Jan07 failure, but Proton was itself successful on 6 occasions between its failures in Sep07 and Mar08.

Every launch is a numbers game (unless the vehicle in question is a Delta 2, or maybe a Cosmos 3M) and there are no guarantees.

[Guest_Zvezdichko_*]

Actually in the last 12 months we have 6 Proton launches + 2 failures...

Fregat is a good stage, I don't expect an upper stage malfunction. It all depends on the performance of the first two stages.

mps: Yeah, not very impressive.

[SFJCody]

This is one good aspect of rising fuel prices- Russia has loads of petro-rubles flowing into planetary spaceflight, enough to cover any cost overruns in getting concepts from powerpoint to the launch pad. Now if only we could persuade the Gulf states that planetary exploration is more important for national prestige than building huge towers...

[mps]

Yes, but in the same time U.S. and Europe will have less bucks for UMSF

[Guest_Zvezdichko_*]

An update on laspace.ru (Using the Google translator, bad English):

In connection with the information appeared in the media on the alleged use of the spacecraft "Phobos-Grunt" as a platform for missions to asteroids Apofis, FGUP "NPO Lavochkin behalf of SA" informs:
Improvements developed by NPO Lavochkin behalf SA spacecraft Phobos-priming "to use it for space missions to asteroids" Apofis "is not included in the task of the project.Information on the project redirect Phobos-soil "is untrue.
Work on the spacecraft "Phobos-priming" being in the staffing order.
Automatic interplanetary station "Phobos-Grunt" is intended to deliver samples of Martian soil natural satellite Phobos to Earth to study it in laboratory conditions, as well as for research Phobos as a celestial body (mapping the surface, internal structure, the clarification of the size, shape, mass and density) etc.

[Paolo]

In case you forgot, the ill-fated Phobos 1 was launched exactly 20 years ago on 7 July 1988 http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftD...do?id=1988-058A

[tolis]

In case you forgot, the ill-fated Phobos 1 was launched exactly 20 years ago on 7 July 1988 http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftD...do?id=1988-058A

Hello to everyone,

I am new to this mailing list.

I just wanted to point out the Phobos-Grunt mission is similar to the original Phobos project 20 years ago in one other
significant way: the quality of the launch window.

This is usually quantified by the "hyperbolic velocity" at departure and arrival, in other words
the amount of energy (or fuel) that the spacecraft needs to expend in order to slip into the
correct trajectory for the Earth-Mars portion of the trip, and the energy at arrival needed
to break into orbit around Mars when it gets there. Trajectory designers usually look
for the smallest hyperbolic velocities possible in order to maximise the mass of the spacecraft.

For Phobos 2 those were about 3.5 km/sec at departure from Earth on 12/07/1988 and 2.6 km/sec for arrival at Mars
at 29/01/2989. For Phobos-Grunt, a departure on 05/10/2009 and arrival at 29/08/2010 gives hyp. velocities
of 3.3 km/sec and 2.5 km/sec, quite similar to those of Phobos 2.

One other thing: the Phobos 2 trajectory allowed for an almost equatorial arrival at Mars. In other words, the spacecraft
could (and did) settle into the equatorial plane of Mars directly from its hyperbolic arrival trajectory. This is useful
(as in "fuel-saving") if you are trying to rendezvous with a satellite in an equatorial orbit, such as Phobos and is not
necessarily true for *every* launch opportunity to Mars. It is true for the 2009 Phobos-Grunt window however.

Hopefully the above will be of some use.

Tolis.

[charborob]

Here's an article about Phobos-Grunt:
Russia to study Martian moons again
Launch is planned for October 2009.

[Paolo]

The latest issue of Air & Space magazine has a good article about Phobos Grunt

[Mark6]

The latest issue of Air & Space magazine has a good article about Phobos Grunt

Can somebody explain this line in the article:

Unlike sister moon Deimos, Phobos, named for the Greek god of fear, the mythical son of Ares (whom the Romans called Mars), circles the Red Planet in a relatively low orbit, and is therefore the easier of the two moons to access.

Why is Phobos easier to access than Deimos?

[Dominik]

I think it's simply because it's nearest to Mars.

[SpaceListener]

My toughts are:

• Phobos have much less dust and debris on its surface than Deimos because of its close orbit to Mars where the planet's gravity would tend to pull debris off the moon. This is a important factor for a easier landing and work with the less dusty surface.
• Both moons have low escape velocities, Phobos is only 12 m/sec and Deimos is even lower. Better with Phobos than Deimos because Phobos will let the spacecraft to have easier landing and surface control during the sampling due to its little greater gravity.
• The orbit velocity of Phobos is higher than Deimos: Phobos orbits Mars with a period of 7.3 hours, less than a Martian day and Deimos orbits Mars in 30.3 hours. Hence, when the spacecraft Phobos-Grunt approaches to Mars, it will need to carry less carburant to reduce the speed. Most Mars' orbiters loop around Mars within 12 hours.

Hope that others would contribute a much better reasons.

[Paolo]

From Lavochkin's website translated by Babelfish:

29.07.2008
Delegation from C.P.R. (Chinese Peoples' Republic) in [FGUP] “[NPO] of the name Of [s].[A].[Lavochkina]”

Last week [FGUP] “[NPO] of the name Of [s].[A].[Lavochkina]” visited delegation from C.P.R. headed by the leader of the Chinese national space administration Of [sun] [Layyanem]. Encounter took place with the participation of the representatives of federal Space Agency, specialists [NPO] [im]. Of [s].[A].[Lavochkina], RNII (Scientific Research Institute of Jet Propulsion) KP, OKB MEI.

In the course of encounter the prospects of the collaboration of two states in the peaceful mastery of outer space were discussed: outer space exploration in the scientific and technical spheres. Among the key items of collaboration - study of Mars and its satellite of Phoebus. In the composition of automatic spacecraft “Phoebus- ground”, of created in [NPO] [im]. [S].[A].[Lavochkina], to Mars will leave Chinese micro-satellite.

Design project leader and Director-General OF [FGUP] “[NPO] [im]. Of [s].[A].[Lavochkina]” Of [g].[M].[Polishchuk] acquainted guests with the basic directions of the activity of enterprise and designated the key moments of the participation of Chinese side in the project “Phoebus- ground”.

The visit of the new shop, where assembling and testing the automatic automatic spacecraft of scientific designation occurs caused great interest in participants in the encounter. The special attention of gathering was given to the section of assembling KA “Phoebus- ground”. The questions, which are concerned its construction and tests, answered the first deputy chief of OKB, chief designer on the theme Of [m].[B].[Martynov].

International collaboration in the peaceful mastery of space contributes to scientific and technical progress, modernization of rocket-space technology and to development of contemporary civilization as a whole.

[rlorenz]

Interesting picture - looks very confrontational - bear guys lined up on one side, dragon guys lined up
on the other. Nice wall of vegetation between them. I'd suggest you don't make rapid technical
progress this way.

In the course of encounter the prospects of the collaboration of two states in the peaceful mastery of outer space were discussed: