Jules Verne ATV Launch Approaching
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080211120639.htm
Yeah, I'm kind of pumped about it! Just out of curiosity, is ESA considering follow-on versions that might conceivably be crew-rated? (Guess that the Ariane V would also have to achieve this as well).
Didn't hear (yet) about any crew-rated versions
http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/ESAE021VMOC_0.html
You know somebody's gotta be thinking about it, though. Hopefully after they get a few flights under their belt, they'll press on with the idea.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the fact that the ISS will have to rely solely on Soyuz for a substantial period until Orion is available (I just hate single-point vulnerabilities, is all). Jules Verne is clearly much closer to becoming a crew-rated vehicle, plus I'd love to see ESA take the plunge into manned spaceflight.
I remember reading somewhere that ESA had considered it but decided to try to cooperate with the russians instead of building a spacecraft of their own. I'm not sure where I read it though, was quite some time ago so I could be wrong.
I'm betting that they want to establish a sound performance record with the unmanned version before pressing on with any other applications, which would be a very prudent, even conservative developmental strategy. IMHO, it's damn near irresistable to possess a pressurized space vehicle and not consider going all the way...
One fly in the ointment might be the level of effort needed to man-rate Ariane. IIRC, Jim from NSF.com stated awhile back that not even the Shuttle has ever truly achieved this, being allowed to fly on a series of engineering waivers. All that said, though, I'm sure that different agencies have different procedures & criteria.
Nice interview, Rui!
Hmm...I dunno...Mr. Elwood sure used the word "manned" a lot, and pointed out that JV was designed to two-fault tolerance specs...definitely getting a vibe, here...
Just imagine an escape tower ontop of such an ATV
It's a bit flat, isn't it? Gotta imagine that there's some sort of an aerodynamic front fairing, though; you could put a tower on easy enough.
What might be a bit more difficult is putting a heat shield on the reentry module (and beefing up the front end for reentry stress as well, probably also the ACS for deorbiting with extra mass unless you want to add an independent retro system).
JV strikes me as somewhat overengineered for a disposable one-flight vehicle, and somewhat underengineered for a prototype of a recoverable manned spacecraft.
It's a good foundation for the development of a manned vehicle -- but there are quite a few changes you'd want to make before adding a crew, I think.
-the other Doug
I find it the F word unbelievable that there is no debate, here, at TPS, around something as important as the Jules Verne ATV launch...Doug...you payed for it...for a vehicle that will make its way towards the Moon and Mars...ODD, just ODD...
Don't doubt it...this is just the beggining...the beggining of wha we are all waiting for...is it for the fact that it is an European effort?
Tomorrow, at 4AM a new ground will be conquered...
A whole new range of opportunities will be set...
ODD man...just ODD...
Just imagining what a ride on the ATV would be like - according to the ESA site, launch to orbit in 3 minutes. It takes the Shuttle 8 minutes to get to orbit. The ride on the ATV would pull even more G's than the Gemini.
An Ariane 5 ES has launched (4:03am UTC) with the Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) resupply spacecraft, from Europe's Spaceport in French Guiana. The "Jules Verne" will park in orbit until after shuttle Endeavour departs ATV's eventual destination - the ISS.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5375
Pretty launch, but very, very short time of tracking due to low clouds.
Sounds like everything is working fine, though.
-the other Doug
Terrific shockwave launch in the nasaspaceflight.com video.
From left window, I measured the following realtime data (in red):
The launch footage is now up for grabs via FTP.
hostname: esa.contentcoders.com
username: esa
password: ftp4esa
filename: 2008-03-09_lanch_editversion.mpg (250 MB)
Who sayed ESA is bad at PR ? I think they're just good at hiding it
Trouble.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5375
Ariane 5 ES launches with ATV - suffers early fault on orbit
Teams are evaluating a problem with ATV's Propulsion Drive Electronics (PDE) 2.
The system in question controls 25 percent of the vehicle's thrusters, and would require extra prop usages for vehicle control should recovery fail.
The fault is believed to related to a mismatch in ox/fuel flow rates, with a second failure sending the ATV in survival mode.
All burns have been canceled until further notice.
Well, this is what first flights are all about...wring-out time. Doesn't sound like a show-stopper, though. Go, Jules Verne!!!
EDIT: Just saw the launch video... ...WOW!!! The Ariane V is one hell of a powerful beast, all right...
(Beat on me if needed since I' making up numbers... does anybody have the REAL ones?)
There are two problems with the Jules Verne ATV.
1.) It carres 3 times what a Progress can carry, for 10 times the cost.
2.) It's a space tug, carrying a payload cannister. it's an <expletive deleted> DISPOSABLE space tug.
What would it be able to do if it were a REAL space tug?.... if an Ariane 5 launched a "slightly smart" Cargo cannister, the cannister would mass as much as the ATV, have attitude control and enough solar panels <non-deployable.... keep it cheap> to loiter in it's orbit and wait for the tug.. The tug would detach from the ISS and rendezvous with the cannister and retrieve it, rendezvousing with the station and docking the cannister to the station. The tug would replenish it's propulsion system from the cannister through it's docked connection to the other end of the cannister (cannister would have one male, one female docking port.) At end of mission, Tug would detach cannister and put it into an orbit from which the "slightly smart" cannister would do an orientation maneuver and a de-orbit burn with a small <solid?> rocket and re-enter. Tug would re-rendezvous with station and await it's next mission.
It's a good first step, but ESA needs to take the second step.
trouble is over
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJE7M5NDF_index_0.html
Ed, I hope that JV Mark I is also just the first step. Presumably there will be a series of evolutes as the program matures and new applications become evident (and more feasible).
Here we go : http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ariane/v181/080329demoday1.html
Judging from the state of the ISS construction in the illustration on that site, the ATV has also traveled back in time several years as it approached the ISS.
JV's got one hell of an autopilot, but I don't think it's that good!
Excellent news, though; just minor parameter tweaking, which is inevitable, esp. on a first flight.
NASA TV currently showing coverage of the approach of Jules Verne to ISS... pretty pictures...
Some pretty impressive formation flying going on up there right now...
You're welcome. But even better than that, http://journals.aol.com/stuartatk/Cumbrian-Sky/entries/2008/03/31/two-for-one.../3515! Clear sky tonight here in Kendal, and the two appeared at 9.11 as predicted, Jules Verne in the lead, around magnitude 2 (and quite red, I thought...) followed a few seconds behind by a blazing bright ISS, almost mag -2 I made it, and phosphorous blue-white in binocs. Very, very strange but oddly moving to see those two spacecraft sailing across the sky mere hours after watching them on my screen...
We saw them two times last week.
Docking coming up in just a few seconds. 7.5 m and closing at 6cm/sec
Like
A
Glove
BEAUTIFUL docking... she may not be the prettiest spacecraft ever built, but she flew straight and true...
Nice docking. I started watching when the ATV and ISS were still in night. From the Zvezda docking port camera, you could only see the docking target and three lights (one flashing) on the ATV, so you had no idea of the scale or distance. My brain was telling me that the two lights to the sides of the docking target were on the perimeter of the vehicle [they were in fact on the front, but you couldn't tell in the pitch black]. Then suddenly the sun came up, and instantly the ATV loomed MUCH larger in the frame than I thought it would be. It was like watching a Klingon warship uncloak!
Congratulations to ESA and the Jules Verne team!!! "This could be the start of something big"...
Yeah, really...she looks pretty sweet to me, workin' that X-wing fighter look!
ESA as plans to convert the Jules Verne class cargo ships into a manned craft
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7398517.stm
Of course, it'll be November till ESA decides if they want to pay for it.
More on the MANNED version of the ATV....(including pix of the cockpit)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7419793.stm
Right on!!! (I knew it would happen, I knew it!)
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