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Europa Subsurface Ocean
ugordan
post Nov 22 2005, 10:53 AM
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Regarding the very real possibility Europa harbors an ocean underneath the ice, I'm wondering whether there have been any estimates on how long such an ocean might have been sustained (I'm assuming it's still there today). Are we talking about the entire history of Europa, billions of years or a much more recent thing, only a few millions? I know Enceladus, which recently turned out to be much warmer inside than expected, could have been periodically heated, but not on very long timescales.
I'm primarily interested because of the habitability factor, obviously an ocean which freezes out every once and a while would not make for a good incubator to possible life.

Also, supposedly all tidal heating on Europa would cease now, how long would it take for the subsurface to freeze out, that is, what are the thermal conductive properties of the surface ice?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on the subject and if the question was already asked before, I apologize.


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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 27 2005, 02:32 AM
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The short version of the "cold low-density upper ocean layer" theory about Europa can be found at http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2002/pdf/1824.pdf . The longer version, published in the April 2004 "Icarus", is at http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rlorenz/europa.pdf .

However, a caution: one thing which I'd forgotten about is that the theorists say that such a phenomenon can NOT occur if either the pressure or the salinity of Europa's ocean rises to levels which, from what we now know, seem very likely for it (an ice layer more than 23 km thick, or a salinity level about equal to that of Earth's ocean). In either case, the density of liquid water simply continues to rise with decreasing temperature until the exact freezing point is reached, and there cannot be a thin surface "stratosphere" of low-density near-freezing liquid water. So it starts to look probable after all that Europa's cycles of thin and thick ice crust probably are entirely due to changes in its level of tidal heating instead.
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ljk4-1
post Jan 26 2006, 06:13 PM
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Two Large Lakes Discovered Under Antarctic Ice

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/06012...ctic_lakes.html

Antarctica has at least 145 small lakes buried under its ice and one large one
called Vostok. Now scientists have found the second and third largest known
bodies of subsurface liquid water there.


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and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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Posts in this topic
- ugordan   Europa Subsurface Ocean   Nov 22 2005, 10:53 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   There are already a topic about an Europa orbiter ...   Nov 22 2005, 11:46 AM
- - tasp   I don't imagine I'm an expert on this, but...   Nov 22 2005, 02:47 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 22 2005, 04:47 PM)I don...   Nov 22 2005, 03:35 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   Europa ice crust is not much thicker than the Anta...   Nov 22 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 22 2005, 03:47 PM)IIRC, mic...   Nov 22 2005, 06:21 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Nov 22 2005, 06:21 PM)One a...   Nov 22 2005, 08:38 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 22 2005, 03:38 P...   Nov 22 2005, 09:13 PM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 22 2005, 10:13 PM)Out o...   Nov 22 2005, 09:26 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 22 2005, 09:13 PM)As fa...   Nov 23 2005, 07:06 AM
|- - tty   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 22 2005, 10:38 P...   Nov 24 2005, 07:42 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (tty @ Nov 24 2005, 02:42 PM)That's...   Nov 24 2005, 09:01 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 24 2005, 11:01 PM)South...   Nov 24 2005, 09:51 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   The history of Europa has to be very closely tied ...   Nov 22 2005, 03:36 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Virtually all the papers on the subject have concl...   Nov 22 2005, 10:43 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thank you BruceMoomaw to quote papers which more o...   Nov 23 2005, 07:22 AM
- - RNeuhaus   Thanks to Richard and Helvick for the reference. I...   Nov 24 2005, 04:21 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 23 2005, 08:21 PM)Thank...   Nov 24 2005, 04:36 AM
- - Myran   QUOTE RNeuhaus said: I am still puzzled  of t...   Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM)If there...   Nov 24 2005, 02:18 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 06:40 AM)Did you ...   Nov 24 2005, 03:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM)Its not ...   Nov 24 2005, 03:02 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 24 2005, 03:02 PM)It...   Nov 24 2005, 04:21 PM
- - Decepticon   When I visit Italy (Calabria) is the province wher...   Nov 24 2005, 09:40 PM
- - scalbers   Thanks Emily for pointing out Bob Pappalardo's...   Nov 24 2005, 10:20 PM
- - deglr6328   Though mainly intended as a refutation of Richard ...   Nov 25 2005, 12:01 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 25 2005, 12:01 AM)Thou...   Nov 25 2005, 08:12 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The short version of the "cold low-density up...   Nov 27 2005, 02:32 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Two Large Lakes Discovered Under Antarctic Ice ht...   Jan 26 2006, 06:13 PM
- - Jeff7   Link was truncated. There we go I wonder if ther...   Jan 27 2006, 01:57 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Jan 27 2006, 02:57 AM)Link was...   Jan 27 2006, 06:54 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Newly Discovered Antarctic Lakes http://earthobse...   Feb 8 2006, 12:51 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Special Public Event Europa: Life Beneath the Ice...   Feb 17 2006, 04:23 PM
|- - ljk4-1   THE PITS - Deep Ocean Mining In Prospect http://...   Feb 23 2006, 03:55 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Today's Planetary Radio podcast (Europa: Life ...   Mar 6 2006, 09:38 PM
- - ljk4-1   Title: Exploring Europa's Ocean: A Challenge ...   Apr 4 2006, 08:17 PM
- - ljk4-1   ERS-2 helps detect massive rivers under Antarctica...   Apr 20 2006, 11:19 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   What is incredible is that, seemingly, it is the g...   Apr 20 2006, 08:09 PM
- - scalbers   As good a thread as any to post this new paper abo...   Jun 14 2019, 07:35 PM
- - nprev   Reminder to all that this is an older thread (ca. ...   Jun 14 2019, 08:16 PM
- - Tom Tamlyn   QUOTE Double ridge formation over shallow water si...   Apr 19 2022, 10:13 PM


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