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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Opportunity _ Cape York - Shoemaker Ridge and the NE traverse

Posted by: Stu Oct 4 2011, 12:20 PM

Oppy's next destination - the Shoemaker Ridge...



(3D version here http://roadtoendeavour.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/sr-3d.jpg )

Some more height...surrounded by lots of gorgeous rocks...view right across Endeavour... our first view too, probably, of the Promised Land in the centre of Cape York where the phylosillicates are waiting to be found...

Go get 'em, Oppy! smile.gif

Edit: looks like Oppy's on the move... smile.gif

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2011-10-04/1F370992695EFFBN84P1211L0M1.JPG

Posted by: fredk Oct 4 2011, 02:23 PM

It looks like the 2735 move was towards the west, ie towards Odyssey crater, instead of directly towards Shoemaker ridge (north). Positioning for a drive north, or checking out Odyssey ejecta - we'll find out soon enough.

Edit: my guess is checking out Odyssey ejecta, since directly north looked totally drivable.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 4 2011, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 2 2011, 08:41 AM) *
<snips>

The outcrop Skead Kirkland Lake is one we've drooled at before and is an interesting-looking exposure. Why is there an unusual purplish iridescent sheen to the rock? I'll guess it's a weathering phenomenon, which is the important step in turning silicate rocks into clays. Wouldn't hurt to have a closer look-- not necessarily a full IDD session, but a series of close-in Pancams would be peachy.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/wilga_photo/Oppy/L257-1P370716206EFFBN19P2398L2M1.jpg

Oppy moved today, and as suggested, the move is to outcrop Skead Kirkland Lake to the west, which is near Odyssey ejecta. A few sols drooling on that outcrop, then off to the Shoemaker Ridge site for looks at what I'm naming informally on my end "the Allen Formation". smile.gif

And some interesting imagery in the data pipeline today, so stay tuned...

--Bill

Posted by: charborob Oct 5 2011, 12:32 PM

Navcam panorama of Oppy's position on sol 2735.


Posted by: jvandriel Oct 5 2011, 07:45 PM

The Pancam L2 view from Sol 2735 and 2736
stitched together.

Jan van Driel


Posted by: fredk Oct 6 2011, 02:13 PM

Looks like a good drive roughly to the north (away from Tribulation) on 2737:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2011-10-06/1F371173205EFFBNCVP1211R0M1.JPG?sol2737
I guess they only wanted to do some quick imaging at the previous site close to Odyssey.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 6 2011, 02:49 PM

It looks as though they're heading along the ridgetop upslope of "BostonCreek LarderLake". I was hoping to get a peek at the finely-bedded strata. Next area of interest may be that light-toned rectangular pattern on the way to the "summit crater" with the CRISM clays.

--Bill

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 6 2011, 06:07 PM

Looking north on this image, CY looks almost flat and featureless.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-06/1N371170633EFFBNCVP1966L0M1.JPG

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 6 2011, 06:12 PM

The Navcam L0 view in the drive direction on Sol 2737.
Jan van Driel


Posted by: fredk Oct 6 2011, 07:51 PM

This looks like a precariously perched rock:


But my guess is the lower left side of the rock looks like background when it's really part of the rock.

Posted by: ngunn Oct 6 2011, 09:26 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 6 2011, 08:51 PM) *
a precariously perched rock


Hey, let's go and give it a shove!
rolleyes.gif I know, I've got this irrational urge to look under rocks. I think it comes from playing on the beach as a child.

Posted by: Matt Lenda Oct 7 2011, 02:39 AM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 6 2011, 06:49 AM) *
It looks as though they're heading along the ridgetop upslope of "BostonCreek LarderLake". I was hoping to get a peek at the finely-bedded strata. Next area of interest may be that light-toned rectangular pattern on the way to the "summit crater" with the CRISM clays.

--Bill

Yeah, we're boogeying on out to Shoemaker Ridge as fast as we can. We need to do a detailed in-situ survey of north-facing slopes and plan out some lily-pads to take us through the Winter solstice (03/31/11).

Among other things.

-m

Posted by: PDP8E Oct 7 2011, 03:01 AM

10x precariously perched rock (noise cancel on stretched jpg ... argg)


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 7 2011, 04:52 AM

Ah, I remember reading about the need to winter-over on a north-facing slope this year, so a boogie makes more sense than a mosey. Whatever we zip by now can be revisited on the return trip to Tribulation...

--Bill

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 7 2011, 05:58 AM

QUOTE (PDP8E @ Oct 6 2011, 09:01 PM) *
10x precariously perched rock (noise cancel on stretched jpg ... argg)

It looks like Nessie to me.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 7 2011, 06:02 AM

Here's the http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2737PancamL2R2Anaglyph.jpg. Watch out for that shallow crater, Oppy.

Posted by: Explorer1 Oct 7 2011, 06:45 AM

At the far north-east corner is that odd straight 'cut' or 'slash' in the side of CY, right? Would be nice to look at while wintering over (assuming I didn't miss a consensus on it being something completely ordinary).

Posted by: vikingmars Oct 7 2011, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Oct 7 2011, 08:45 AM) *
At the far north-east corner is that odd straight 'cut' or 'slash' in the side of CY, right? Would be nice to look at while wintering over (assuming I didn't miss a consensus on it being something completely ordinary).

==> Are you speaking of "Dagger Valley" ?

Posted by: fredk Oct 7 2011, 02:13 PM

It looks like another substantial drive northish on 2738:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2011-10-07/1F371254383EFFBNG5P1205R0M1.JPG?sol2738
This should put us in a good spot to image the north-facing slopes of Shoemaker ridge.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 7 2011, 03:37 PM

This isn't precisely accurate (unless the rover is hovering), but sort of pretty:

 

Posted by: Stu Oct 7 2011, 06:00 PM

Wow... every time you do that I get a real slap-across-the-face reality check... looking at the pictures on their own, with no rover for scale, it's easy to fool yourself into thinking Oppy is much, much smaller, or the landscape is much more, I don't know... epic? You plonk her down amidst the dunes and dust and suddenly everything seems smaller. Anyone else feel that?

blink.gif

Posted by: climber Oct 7 2011, 07:09 PM

I agree Stu...but mind...it's gona be "worse" with Curiosity!

Posted by: mhoward Oct 7 2011, 07:21 PM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 7 2011, 11:00 AM) *
Anyone else feel that?


I've always found it incredibly difficult to judge the scale of things the rovers are seeing, which, thinking back, is why I put Doug's model in my program to begin with. But if one extends the view to the right, I think it's epic enough smile.gif

 

Posted by: fredk Oct 7 2011, 07:57 PM

Shoemaker Ridge looks pretty subtle from this side:


Posted by: ngunn Oct 7 2011, 09:54 PM

Really beautiful (and obviously well constructed) 3D view. Never mind the ridge, look at the vista. smile.gif

Posted by: Explorer1 Oct 8 2011, 12:16 AM

Yes vikingmars, that's what I meant.
Does it have an official name yet? It certainly stands out enough.

Posted by: vikingmars Oct 8 2011, 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Oct 8 2011, 02:16 AM) *
Yes vikingmars, that's what I meant. Does it have an official name yet? It certainly stands out enough.

No official name yet : this is the name we gave this feature at Societe Astronomique de France, because it looks like a dagger made out of hard rock by cavemen as seen oftenly in our paleontology museums... smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Oct 8 2011, 04:50 PM

Sol 2738 Pancam mosaic http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2738PancamR2.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2738PancamL2R2Anaglyph.jpg

I recommend the anaglyph. According to the data Opportunity has already driven well into this mosaic and I can't wait to see what she's seeing now.

Posted by: Stu Oct 8 2011, 09:21 PM

Love these low Sun angle views...


Posted by: fredk Oct 8 2011, 10:25 PM

My estimate of our location after the 2739 drive:


It looks like a long drive (over 70 metres!). We should be able to map out the next group of north-facing slopes from around here. And judging from the rear hazcam view, we should now have a direct view of the putative clay-bearing region. Can't wait for the nav/pancams...

Posted by: Stu Oct 9 2011, 05:55 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 8 2011, 11:25 PM) *
And judging from the rear hazcam view, we should now have a direct view of the putative clay-bearing region. Can't wait for the nav/pancams...


I think you're right... two new pancams down so far, one (L) shows, I think, those 'rectangular markings'. Little clearer when stretched...



So Oppy sailed right past the Shoemaker Ridge and is going after the Good Stuff, eh?

Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2011, 06:17 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 8 2011, 10:55 PM) *
two new pancams down so far


That's still before the drive. Opportunity is now supposed to be on the left side of that image, with what might be a pretty interesting view.

Looks like she's moving right along, yes.

Posted by: Stu Oct 9 2011, 06:50 AM

They were *before* the drive? Sorry, should have checked the image reg. Anyway, even better, we should get a really good view of The Promised Land in the next batch...

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 9 2011, 08:39 AM

The Navcam L0 view on Sol 2738.

Jan van Driel


Posted by: jvandriel Oct 9 2011, 08:52 AM

and the Pancam L2 view on Sol 2738.

Jan van Driel




Posted by: Oersted Oct 9 2011, 02:56 PM

The slopes up ahead look promising for opportunities to tilt the rover before the impending winter. When is it more or less that we need to do that, btw?

Thx for the stitches!

Posted by: MoreInput Oct 9 2011, 06:37 PM

Funny, instead of slowly driving north to search for the clays they rush in highspeed over Cape York. Cool, and that will give every day new views of this place.
I'm really interested how the clays and phyllosilicates look from the bottom! Will they have a distinct visible structure or are they just as rocks as we all have seen the last years?

Posted by: fredk Oct 9 2011, 07:53 PM

Yeah, my impression is they want to map out any north-facing slopes now, while they still have plenty of power to drive, in case they need them this winter. And the closer to the clays the better. So it looks like science is on hold for now. But that may change as soon as they decide they've found good slopes.

QUOTE (Oersted @ Oct 9 2011, 03:56 PM) *
When is it more or less that we need to do that, btw?

They don't know yet if they'll need to park at all. It depends on the dust. Check out the latest http://www.planetary.org/news/2011/0930_Mars_Exploration_Rover_Update.html for some comments about this.

Posted by: Of counsel Oct 9 2011, 08:12 PM

By my estimate, we're now on the southern edge of the phyllosilicates. Compare Tesheiner's map for 2739 (today) and the phyllosilicate signatures (red) in CRISM:


Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2011, 08:15 PM

A single Navcam image has made it to the web - one which isn't particularly illuminating, LOL. If it helps (probably not), the right side of that image is facing North.

Here's where the tracking data says the rover is:



 

Posted by: climber Oct 9 2011, 10:42 PM

I'm a bit confused not to stay "lost". On Eduardo's map, I have no doubt North is "UP". So, I see East facing slopes on pictures and no North facing slopes unless Oppy is decending at this time. Can somebody tell me what's wrong with this?

Posted by: fredk Oct 9 2011, 11:25 PM

I'm not sure if this will help, but generally the slopes are east facing here, although there are some "knobs" that might have north-facing slopes of varying degrees, that I've circled here:


I'm thinking those are the areas they want to map carefully.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 10 2011, 02:23 AM

Interesting place, this Ridge of Shoemaker. FIrst loook, a different particle size and shape distribution in the soil, and look st the rounded cobbles.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-09/1N371437878EFFBO00P0600L0M1.JPG

--Bill

Posted by: mhoward Oct 10 2011, 02:35 AM

Quite a view.

Sol 2740 360x80 degree Navcam http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamLeft.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamRight.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamAnaglyph.jpg

Edit: tweaked the anaglyph a bit

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 10 2011, 04:24 AM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 9 2011, 08:23 PM) *
... and look at the rounded cobbles. ...
Those are curious, aren't they?

Posted by: fredk Oct 10 2011, 04:38 AM

Yep - I don't recall a group of globby cobbles quite like that.

This frame's looking farther up CY towards the main clay signature area:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-09/1N371437301EFFBO00P0600R0M1.JPG?sol2740

Posted by: mhoward Oct 10 2011, 04:54 AM

Where do you even start with a place like this? Will be interesting to see what happens next.

Edit: Well, start with some Pancam, hopefully smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Oct 10 2011, 05:13 AM

Here's a http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamAnaglyph_far_sharp.jpg with image sharpened and focal point a bit farther out. (I'm fascinated by the topography to the north-northeast.)

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 10 2011, 06:05 AM

Curious, yes. Note that the cobbles all have a light area on one end. First thought was "ah, a specular reflection", but in an L0 Navcam, light=reddish so it's an "ocher" spot. Given the orientation, they seem to be in the "downwind" direction so it's in a wind-dead zone and light particles tend to collect and adhere or beind downwind, there is less aeolian abrasion and erosion. And in fredk's Navcam view, look at the ripple-forming sand plus the rounded cobbles, with a mix of particles like that, this is a area of active weathering and erosion. Unique area, and we've just now gotten here.

I'm hoping for a sidetrip to the spot with those rectangular lineations (which I'm informally calling "Secular City" til we get an official name) for a quick peek and close-in color views.

That fascinating topography is in the direction of the dark-filled crater, "summit crater", informally.

--Bill

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 10 2011, 06:48 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Oct 10 2011, 04:35 AM) *
Quite a view.

Sol 2740 360x80 degree Navcam http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamLeft.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamRight.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2740NavcamAnaglyph.jpg

Edit: tweaked the anaglyph a bit

The left navcam mosaic in polar form.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 10 2011, 11:11 AM

Good application of a circular panorama.

Compare with Phil's Cir_Pan of Mike's Sol-2710 Navcam pan:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25510

(in post http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7072&view=findpost&p=178440 ) -- you can tell we are no longer on the side of a hill, and you can just make out "summit crater" to the NNE.

--Bill




EDIT: and with Phil's current circular pan two posts down: http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25663 . Same data, different perspectives.

Posted by: climber Oct 10 2011, 01:15 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 10 2011, 01:25 AM) *
I'm not sure if this will help, but generally the slopes are east facing here, although there are some "knobs" that might have north-facing slopes of varying degrees, that I've circled here:
I'm thinking those are the areas they want to map carefully.

I've got the point , thanks Fredk, this make sense now.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 10 2011, 01:38 PM

My version of mhoward's nice panorama in circular form.

Phil


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 10 2011, 04:59 PM

I uploaded to the PhotoBucket site an index image of the area between Odyssey Crater and the "unnamed summit crater" in the CRISM clay area, in PNG format.

HiRISE image of part of Cape York, at Endeavour Crater.
Cropped, sharpened and enhanced and map oriented.
Covers MER traverse from Odyssey Crater to CRISM clay area

Image ESP_024015_1775 _RED

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/wilga_photo/Oppy/ESP_024015_1775_RED--crop_enh_Shoemaker_Ridge.png


Somewhat grainy-looking, but I've concluded that this is due to sub-pixel light spots and dark cobbles on the ground pushing the average pixel value up or down.

You can orient yourself using Tesheiner's Route Maps or with the Cir_Pans uploaded earlier.

--Bill

Posted by: Sunspot Oct 10 2011, 05:22 PM

Do those rectangular features correspond to the clay signature?

Posted by: Floyd Oct 10 2011, 05:38 PM

Nope, just the foundation stones of the old fort. laugh.gif

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 10 2011, 07:10 PM

Now we know where it landed after it was sent spinning.


 

Posted by: fredk Oct 10 2011, 08:12 PM

Nice view from sol 2736 showing Odyssey ejecta, then Odyssey itself, then Spirit Point on CY, and finally the jumbled terrain we zoomed over on our way in...


Posted by: mhoward Oct 10 2011, 10:23 PM

Not seamless, but... (Sol 2736 "Kirkland Lake" red-cyan anaglyph)

 

Posted by: Ron Hobbs Oct 11 2011, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 9 2011, 10:05 PM) *
I'm hoping for a sidetrip to the spot with those rectangular lineations (which I'm informally calling "Secular City" til we get an official name) for a quick peek and close-in color views.


Those 'rectangular lineations' look a lot like the cemented fractures in Gale Crater. http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/images/?ImageID=3568



They don't say anything about clay in the image caption, but it is evidence of water. My guess the MER team will want to take a look at this feature; maybe Oppy will scoop MSL.

Anyway, I hope so too. Go Oppy, go! wheel.gif

Posted by: Stu Oct 11 2011, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Oct 10 2011, 08:10 PM) *
Now we know where it landed after it was sent spinning.


Close, Dan, but I think this is more likely...



tongue.gif

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 11 2011, 12:36 AM

And the P2405 sequence images today from Sol -2739 named "Sutherland Knobbys" is to the southeast and shows just the edge of the rectangular lineations. They are still mostly hidden by the ridge.

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2011-10-10/1P371344690ESFBNG8P2405L2M1.JPG

and

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2011-10-10/1P371344713ESFBNG8P2405L2M1.JPG

"Sutherland Knobbys" is an interesting bit of Aussie history--

http://coalriver.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/nobbys-head-on-mars/


The prominent ridge in the second image is actually Sutherland Point in Botany Bay and Knobbys Head is behind it. Or so I think.

--Bill

Posted by: eoincampbell Oct 11 2011, 12:38 AM

Don't want to Tar dis thread but... I hope we can investigate those features smile.gif ...

Posted by: fredk Oct 11 2011, 12:48 AM

laugh.gif

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 11 2011, 12:36 AM) *
And the P2405 sequence images today from Sol -2739 named "Sutherland Knobbys" is to the southeast and shows just the edge of the rectangular lineations. They are still mostly hidden by the ridge.
I'd say that pancam sequence is looking more S-SW, well away from the "lineations". But the lineations are just visible in the navcams, here:

Obviously we'll need pancams (or to drive closer!) to make out any detail.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 11 2011, 12:51 AM

QUOTE (Ron_Hobbs)
Those 'rectangular lineations' look a lot like the cemented fractures in Gale Crater

May very well be-- my first thought on those was "cold water hydrothermal cementation along fractures", which is another way of saying "mineral-saturated groundwater once filled the fractures. The water deposited minerals on both sides of the opening". There have been several suggestions of "cold water hydrothermal" activity at Meridiani and this clinches it.

--Bill

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 11 2011, 12:56 AM

QUOTE (FredK)
I'd say that pancam sequence is looking more S-SW, well away from the "lineations".
Errr, could be. I'm getting a bit disoriented here, even with tracking data and orbital images.

--Bill

Posted by: fredk Oct 11 2011, 01:24 AM

Here's an identification of features to the NE, where the clay signatures lie:


(The inset is L/R registered average of the 2740 navcam, with 2x vertical stretch.)

The circled outcrops could be our first peek at the rocks we've been seeking for so long...

Posted by: mhoward Oct 11 2011, 01:33 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 10 2011, 07:24 PM) *
Here's an identification of features to the NE, where the clay signatures lie:


Nice. And if it helps with orientation at all (which is indeed challenging), the http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7081&view=findpost&p=179124 is centered on north, http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7081&view=findpost&p=179140.

Posted by: walfy Oct 11 2011, 03:21 AM

Great new images of the Odyssey boulders have come down, looking forward to the mosaics (hope to learn how to make them myself one day). An example of the anaglyphs in store:


Posted by: fredk Oct 11 2011, 03:23 AM

Yeah, I should say - I couldn't've made those ID's without your mosaic and the circular projections!

BTW, in case anyone isn't monitoring the website, the Endeavour approach movie has been compiled, with accelerometer soundtrack. Really nice.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/20111010a.html

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 11 2011, 06:17 AM

http://www.planetary.brown.edu/pdfs/3954.pdf associates phyllosilicates with polygonal lineations in HiRise imagery, and offers some other interesting observations regarding the directions that some of the layers dip.

QUOTE
3. Morphology and Stratigraphy
[10] Images of the phyllosilicate-bearing crater rim segments from the MRO High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) [McEwen et al., 2007] reveal layering and a range of polygonal textures (Figure 3a), similar in appearance to other phyllosilicate-bearing outcrops in Meridiani [Wiseman et al., 2008; Marzo et al., 2009] and many other locations on Mars [e.g., Wray et al., 2008; Bishop et al., 2008; Ehlmann et al., 2009]. Stereo views (Figure 3b) show that layers within the western rim dip away from the crater interior, as expected if the beds predate Endeavour crater and were back-tilted by the impact. In contrast, bright layers bounding many Endeavour rim segments [e.g., McEwen et al., 2009, Figure 29] dip down toward the crater interior; we cannot clearly determine whether these layers predate or postdate the impact based on orbital images.

Posted by: charborob Oct 11 2011, 12:32 PM

QUOTE (walfy @ Oct 10 2011, 11:21 PM) *
Great new images of the Odyssey boulders have come down, looking forward to the mosaics.

See this post.
QUOTE (walfy @ Oct 10 2011, 11:21 PM) *
(hope to learn how to make them myself one day).

Try, for example, Photoshop Elements. There are also other software, free and commercial, out there. A Google search will come up with plenty of information.

Posted by: fredk Oct 11 2011, 02:56 PM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Oct 11 2011, 06:17 AM) *
http://www.planetary.brown.edu/pdfs/3954.pdf associates phyllosilicates with polygonal lineations in HiRise imagery
Thanks for reminding us of that paper, Rocker. And Fig 3c in that paper shows the very polygons we're sitting next to right now!

So we know they'll be interested in them. And yesterday there was this cryptic message from https://mobile.twitter.com/marsroverdriver/status/123527486859513856
QUOTE
Driving Opportunity with Tara today. No real obstacles to avoid, but at least our path is zig-zaggy, a nice change of pace from the plains.
I can't wait to find out where we're going!

(Sorry I can't give the direct link to that post - I can't get them to work any more. Fixed.)

Posted by: Stu Oct 11 2011, 07:03 PM

Colour mosaic, showing lots of rugged rocky goodness...


Posted by: stevesliva Oct 11 2011, 08:00 PM

Are those clouds? I know the vertical stuff is dust, but there's a horizontal banding in there. Just fill?

Posted by: Stu Oct 11 2011, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (stevesliva @ Oct 11 2011, 09:00 PM) *
Are those clouds? I know the vertical stuff is dust, but there's a horizontal banding in there. Just fill?


Lot of fill at the top, well spotted. Just look at the rocky stuff. wink.gif

Posted by: fredk Oct 11 2011, 08:22 PM

No time to check, but it looks like we've driven up to the lineations, and they're visible clearly in the navcams now:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-11/1N371610831EFFBOC7P0705R0M1.JPG?sol2742

Posted by: Stu Oct 11 2011, 08:24 PM

Oooooohhhh.... biggrin.gif


Posted by: Stu Oct 11 2011, 09:11 PM

Just to give a sense of scale of these features, here's a cloned Oppy shown next to them ...




Posted by: jamescanvin Oct 11 2011, 09:42 PM

My version of the Kirkland Lake mosaic:

http://www.nivnac.co.uk/mer/index.php/b2736

That is some impressive rock pile! smile.gif

James

Posted by: ngunn Oct 11 2011, 09:59 PM

[quote name='fredk' date='Oct 11 2011, 09:22 PM' post='179180']
"we've driven up to the lineations, and they're visible clearly in the navcams now"

Where are they in that image then? Can you point them out? Sorry not to have done my homework.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 11 2011, 11:09 PM

Sol 2742 Navcam 360x80 http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2742NavcamLeft.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2742NavcamRight.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2742NavcamAnaglyph.jpg

Posted by: mhoward Oct 11 2011, 11:16 PM

Because this area might just be of particular interest, here's a http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2742NavcamAnaglyph.mov (7.4 MB)

Edit: Worth noting: when you first open this, the view is pointing North. And the big inadvertent seam marks South.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 11 2011, 11:23 PM

New enhanced crop of HiRISE image ESP_024015_1775 of the area surrounding the lineations:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r91/wilga_photo/Oppy/ESP_024015_1775_RED--secular_city.png

--Bill

Posted by: fredk Oct 12 2011, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 11 2011, 08:22 PM) *
No time to check, but it looks like we've driven up to the lineations
I should've checked - we're still a ways short of the main lineations. Here's my best guess of the 2742 location - we appear to be sitting on the edge of a small depression/crater:

To my eye, the bright features in the middle of the navcam I posted look quite linear, but they're clearly much too close to be the main "tardis" features. The "tardis" features should be in this frame, roughly where I've circled:

Those nearby features may still be related lineations, just too small to see clearly on the hirise view.

Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 12 2011, 03:08 AM

The 'back' of Stoughton,
Pancam sol 2736, L257 R2-1,
Colour flicker gif with a synthesized right green channel (a la mhoward).


Posted by: mhoward Oct 12 2011, 03:11 AM

QUOTE (Jam Butty @ Oct 11 2011, 08:08 PM) *
Colour flicker gif with a synthesized right green channel


Nice!

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 12 2011, 04:05 AM

QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Oct 11 2011, 03:42 PM) *
That is some impressive rock pile! ...

omg, that is sweet. smile.gif I love this outcrop.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 12 2011, 04:57 AM

This is some of the most amazing imagery we have ever seen of such ancient rocks.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 12 2011, 12:15 PM

The lineations are indeed not readily visible from ground level. The sparse detritus overlying them "shields" the view at low viewing angles from the ground and blocks less in the "vertical" view of aerials. And they are undoubtedly mineralized joints or fractures, a form of low-temperature hydrothermal activity (a new word to bandy about). Probably created as stress-relief features from the unloading of the surface as the Endeavour rim has eroded (see them all the time in Appalachia) but they may also be related to shock from the concussion of the Endeavour impact (or earlier impacts). They are probably quite common here, but typically are less-visible and covered with the detritus of weathered material whereas at the spot the loose stuff has evidently been transported away. Notice that the Rover tracks sometimes disappear without an obvious change in the albedo or texture of the surface, so there is something different happening here.

Remember that we got a "preview" of lineations when we first arrived at CY and rushed by those fine, reddish lineations on the way to Odyssey. At any rate, the mineralogy of these structures will give great insight into conditions of the time. And a prequel of what cousin Curiosity ought to be looking at in Gale crater.

--Bill


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 12 2011, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (CR)
I love this outcrop

Indeed-- there is so much happening here.

--Bill



 

Posted by: Stu Oct 12 2011, 01:29 PM

Just for fun - but scale is correct - a couple of simulated HiRISE views of what Oppy would look like if she continued to head north, stopping at some scenic points along the way...




Posted by: fredk Oct 12 2011, 02:25 PM

Nice post about the current mapping strategy at http://opportunityendeavour.blogspot.com/2011/10/day-in-life-bsols-2742-i-dont-even-know.html

Also some new maps, which split Shoemaker ridge into "A" and "B" (we're currently near B ).

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 12 2011, 02:45 PM

Neat. Does anyone know a public source for the topo map in Matt Lenda's late blog entry?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F_1LEola0VQ/TpUKkqwmsrI/AAAAAAAAAHA/5wlCFOtzxF8/s1600/drives_withlabels_2742.png



'Twould be nice to be able to snag those from time to time...

--Bill

Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 13 2011, 12:27 AM

Small outcrop on Shoemaker Ridge 'B'
Navcam flicker gif, sol 2742.


Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 13 2011, 05:48 AM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 12 2011, 08:45 AM) *
Neat. Does anyone know a public source for the topo map in Matt Lenda's late blog entry?...
Bill: I, too would like to find a source for that topo. We sometimes see some versions of that map at the http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/traverse_maps.html link at the JPL rover site. The OSU site is not very helpful in this regard.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 13 2011, 06:07 AM

QUOTE
Here — context image! Take it! You'll need it!

Matt: If you are going to post an image supporting a discussion about the need to find north facing slopes, you should either put a north arrow on your map, or you should follow the convention of making maps which have north at the top. Just a suggestion to make it easier for the rest us us to follow your line of reasoning. smile.gif

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 13 2011, 10:28 AM

I wasn't able to find an "OSU" on the Web. The entity OSU is apparently a loose university consortium of photogrammetric genuises and GIS geeks and not a physical brick-and-mortar organization with a receptionist and front office. I suspect that they develop maps and charts on an as-needed contract basis.

But this is standard photogrammetric work, developing topo maps from stereo pairs. The hard part is making the grid of elevations from the aerials, but this work is done with the contours provided on the map. I'm retired but can probably call in favors on powerful gridding software-- once the elevations and map control points are entered into an autocad-like file it would be trivial to generate one's own topo maps. This can be a lot of work, but do-able as a hobby and I may try it for grins and giggles some day.

Thanks to Matt for sharing this with us, and I surely wish we had a similar topo map of the adjacent area to the NE... wink.gif

--Bill

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 13 2011, 10:46 AM

OSU - Ohio State University, where Dr. Ron Li and his group have been involved in rover location finding and mapping since the start of the mission!

Phil

http://shoreline.eng.ohio-state.edu/ron/_private/cv.html

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 13 2011, 11:05 AM

Yes, I saw Li's CV and know what OSU is and later found http://shoreline.eng.ohio-state.edu/ and even found this:

http://shoreline.eng.ohio-state.edu/album/photos/mer2003/opp_2710.jpg

--Bill

Posted by: fredk Oct 13 2011, 07:48 PM

It looks like we're continuing our slope survey with another good drive NE on 2744. Although judging from this hazcam:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2011-10-13/1F371793901EFFBOJMP1211R0M1.JPG?sol2744
you could be forgiven for thinking we've been transported back to the smooth terrain around Victoria! laugh.gif

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 13 2011, 08:04 PM

63m NNE, actually.
And, well, I think this navcam gives the same impression too: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-13/1N371790667EFFBOJMP0613L0M1.JPG

Posted by: Stu Oct 14 2011, 12:58 AM

Interesting feature coming into view for Oppy now...



And stretched...



At first I thought that might be the more northerly parts of CY, but looking at Google Mars I'm now wondering if that dark tongue of material is actually darker ground sloping into Endeavour on the northern side of Artemis Crater..?

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 14 2011, 01:09 AM

I'm thinking (tentatively, I've been turned around a lot lately) that the line of dark rocks in the upper right of this Navcam marks the near rim of the "summit crater" and that crater extends off to the left.

Sol-2744 Navcam:

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-13/1N371790719EFFBOJMP0613L0M1.JPG

That being the case, we are in the middle of the CRISM clay area. The soil at our wheels is quite different and remarkable, as seen in the Pan-, Nav- and Hazcams. T'would be a perfect opportunity for a "systematic foreground" image...

--Bill

Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 14 2011, 03:02 AM

Sol 2744 right pancam stitch.
I assume this is the summit crater and the area to the east of it.


Posted by: fredk Oct 14 2011, 03:10 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 14 2011, 12:58 AM) *
Artemis Crater..?

I don't recall hearing that name - what crater is that and where'd you hear it, Stu?

Posted by: fredk Oct 14 2011, 04:19 AM

Fascinating topography here, for sure:


Notice how the ripples drape into the near crater.

Posted by: Stu Oct 14 2011, 07:07 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 14 2011, 04:10 AM) *
I don't recall hearing that name - what crater is that and where'd you hear it, Stu?


Sorry, meant to say "Antares"...

http://marsrover.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20101216a/PIA13705_RA-1-traverse_br.jpg

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 14 2011, 09:05 AM

The complete Pancam L2 view on Sol 2744.

Jan van Driel


Posted by: Stu Oct 14 2011, 10:35 AM

3D view...


Posted by: mhoward Oct 14 2011, 02:24 PM

Sol 2744 Pancam anaglyph mosaic

 

Posted by: fredk Oct 14 2011, 02:42 PM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 14 2011, 07:07 AM) *
Sorry, meant to say "Antares"...

Ah, gotcha. Yep, I'm pretty sure that "dark tongue" is farther up the Endeavour rim, well beyond CY.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 14 2011, 11:47 PM

A bit delayed, but here is the sol 2742 panorama from mhoward in circular format.

Phil


Posted by: Stu Oct 16 2011, 02:30 AM

New rocks, everyone... smile.gif




Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 16 2011, 03:19 AM

color flicker gif
sol 2743, L257 R2-1


Posted by: mhoward Oct 16 2011, 03:42 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 15 2011, 07:30 PM) *
New rocks, everyone... smile.gif


The outcrop viewed on sol 2743 is called "Sheba," apparently.


 

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 16 2011, 03:53 AM

The L257, L456 and R721 Pancams from command sequence P2410 are indeed "Sheba" and might just be the source of the clay signature.

--Bill

 

Posted by: Stu Oct 16 2011, 08:42 AM

Quick (well, I say 'quick'; been working on it for ages but can't get the colours to match yet!) colour view of "Sheba"...


Posted by: mhoward Oct 16 2011, 02:58 PM

Pancam anaglyph mosaic for sol 2746. I was a bit lost, so I marked North and Northeast; that helped me line up features with the map better.

 

Posted by: fredk Oct 16 2011, 07:48 PM

Well, this is it: in the foreground is one of the biggest outcrops in the heart of the CRISM signature:


Some interesting bright outcrops farther out on the right side of the frame: those are on the rim of the largest crater on CY (the ancient-looking, mostly filled one).

Posted by: mhoward Oct 16 2011, 09:12 PM

Here's what's available of the Navcam

 

Posted by: Eutectic Oct 16 2011, 09:34 PM

Path to sol 2746 + CRISM overlay -- overlay is approximate.


Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 17 2011, 04:47 AM

It might be useful to see those CRISM mineralogical anomalies overlain on a higher resolution HiRise background. I http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=6438&view=findpost&p=160371, but it obviously didn't have the nice route map overlay. I don't have time tonight to add the route info, but if anyone else has the time, have at it.

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=21794

I can't get the thumbnail to link to the original image, so click on the text link above to go to the original post. Perhaps a moderator can correct my error. smile.gif Admin: Done!

Posted by: mhoward Oct 17 2011, 03:05 PM

360x90 degree Navcam panorama for sol 2746-2747, left and anaglyph versions. Centered on north as per usual lately.


 

Posted by: rschare Oct 17 2011, 04:22 PM

I can't be the only one looking at that picture and saying. Whoa...Oppy...turn around you overshot the Phylloscilicte's! Where' she going?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 17 2011, 04:30 PM

Looking for a winter haven, a north-facing slope.

Phil

Posted by: eoincampbell Oct 17 2011, 04:37 PM

I believe the team are searching for the most favorable spot to aquire a northerly tilt over the coming martian winter.
I wonder where the options are...

Posted by: PDP8E Oct 17 2011, 04:53 PM

When I view the overhead view of Cape York from HiRise (as in CosmicRocker's image a few posts ago), and then I compare that to the ground truth of the Pan/Nav shots (as in MHoward's, a few posts ago) --- I get this mental disconnect between the apparent ruggedness of HiRise and the smoothness and low relief of the Pan/Navs (except Odyssey)

It seems with HiRise we are looking at a over aggressive contrast. Would the same scene in real contrast be boring and bland? , probably. Any thoughts?

Posted by: fredk Oct 17 2011, 04:59 PM

In addition to Phil's point, the CRISM data is low resolution, so it may be a good idea to look outside the "red blob" on those overlays. Actually, a more recent map of the CRISM signatures is in this abstract:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2011/pdf/2272.pdf
Here's a crop of that map:


This map shows the clay area farther north than the older maps, and centred around the large crater we're sitting beside right now. (Is this what people are calling "Summit crater"?)

This map is obliquely projected, so it would take some work (de-shearing) to produce a good overlay with a high resolution image...

Posted by: ngunn Oct 17 2011, 05:35 PM

Another question: Do people think there is a causal connection between that crater and the clay exposure, or are they centred on the same spot by pure chance? (Windblown drift trapped inside the crater might plausibly account for the hole in the red area irrespective of the answer.)

Posted by: PaulM Oct 17 2011, 06:10 PM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 17 2011, 06:35 PM) *
Another question: Do people think there is a causal connection between that crater and the clay exposure, or are they centred on the same spot by pure chance? (Windblown drift trapped inside the crater might plausibly account for the hole in the red area irrespective of the answer.)

Is it possible that Summit Crater punched through overlying materiel to reveal a clay stratum underneath? If so and given the friable nature of clay is there likely to be a lump of clay more that a few mm in size at this location?

I could imagine that the clay signature measured on the 25 degree slope on the East side of Cape Tribulation might represent more undisturbed clay deposit where features such as banding would be visible. After all the most undisturbed strata seen by Oppy so far have been on crater walls.

I think that I can see linear clay signatures in the published CRISM image of the side of Cape Tribulation which suggests to me that the deposition of clay pre-dates the formation of Endeavour Crater. If this is true then it would be reasonable to suggest that Summit Crater has punched a hole into a clay stratum within Cape York.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 17 2011, 06:25 PM

"It seems with HiRise we are looking at a over aggressive contrast. Would the same scene in real contrast be boring and bland? , probably. Any thoughts?"

The HiRISE images show a much more rugged surface at the north end of Cape York. The south always did look rather rounded. But I think you're right as well about contrast - I always want to see a good contrast range in an image, so I often increase it to make subtle features more visible.

Phil

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 17 2011, 07:44 PM

QUOTE (Nigel)
Another question: Do people think there is a causal connection between that crater and the clay exposure...
My view is that the "CRISM clay" areas beside the nearby so-called "summit crater" represent a weathered ejecta residiuum of that crater or residual soil from the several mineralized low-temperature hydrothermal veins (such as the lineations seen recently and other lineations in the area). The clays are probably confined to narrow zones within the bedrock and are scattered and exposed at the surface by cratering or weathering processes.

We won't know for certain until we get the chance to do a long and close look at thge surface and shallow subsurface of this site.

So I guess the answer is a definite maybe...

--Bill

Posted by: ngunn Oct 17 2011, 09:44 PM

That's two guesses in one Bill, but thanks! Thanks also PaulM. Both replies are much better than my musings on the question.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 17 2011, 11:10 PM

The "summit crater" is certainly a smoking gun here, but the lineations and the couple of peeks we've had at them ("Sheba") are also a smoldering gun.

It's the old movie-serial cliffhanger conumdrum: "stay tuned for the exciting adventure next week"... smile.gif

And what PaulM said-- there is a very complex geological history here and it is going to be difficult to sort this out with the resources available (our eyes and a plucky Rover).

--Bill

Posted by: walfy Oct 17 2011, 11:24 PM

It looks like mostly dust on the surface in this region where the clays might be. Do the instruments on CRISM detect subsurface signatures of the phyllosilicates? If it's all under the dust layer, Oppy might have to drag a wheel to scrape it off, like her sister once did unwittingly and uncovered some discoveries. Or maybe just spin a wheel.

Posted by: fredk Oct 18 2011, 02:56 AM

Intriguing post from https://mobile.twitter.com/marsroverdriver/status/126032102264279040

QUOTE
Today's drive should let us peek over the edge toward the putative phyllosilicates. Unclear whether we'll go there before or after winter.

Can't wait to see where we'll end up...

Posted by: tanjent Oct 18 2011, 03:09 AM

Could the phyllosilicates be in the dust? I guess you'd still have to have an anchored source nearby or they'd be blown all over the planet by now, but the source itself could be much smaller than the CRISM signatures. Along with Bill, I would be searching for more of those light-colored veins.


Maybe this guy knows the answer. (I was dying to post this earlier in the thread, along with the Tardis and the door, but couldn't find the print.)


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 18 2011, 04:32 AM

We got a significant set of images in the Evening Data Express-- a series of "boot-toe scuff" Pancams in the close-in "systematic foreground" format in full L and R filter sets, command sequence P2559. This is a good indication that Oppy is at or near the site of the CRISM signal.

Meanwhile, read up on CRISM:

http://crism.jhuapl.edu/


--Bill

Posted by: vikingmars Oct 18 2011, 08:09 AM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 18 2011, 06:32 AM) *
Meanwhile, read up on CRISM:
http://crism.jhuapl.edu/ --Bill


... Well, this data took 42 years to reach us... It must come from the old Mariners :
"Release Date: Dec 31, 1969" : a nice typo ... laugh.gif

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 18 2011, 09:43 AM

The L2 Pancam view on Sol 2742 and 2743.

Jan van Driel


Posted by: jvandriel Oct 18 2011, 09:54 AM

and another nice one.
The L2 Pancam view on Sol 2743.

Jan van Driel


Posted by: Stu Oct 18 2011, 01:26 PM

Colour view of part of "Sheba" outcrop...


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 18 2011, 01:34 PM

Well, this data took 42 years to reach us...


...and shows the value of persistence. smile.gif

--Bill

Posted by: climber Oct 18 2011, 02:05 PM

QUOTE (tanjent @ Oct 18 2011, 05:09 AM) *
Could the phyllosilicates be in the dust? I guess you'd still have to have an anchored source nearby or they'd be blown all over the planet by now, but the source itself could be much smaller than the CRISM signatures. Along with Bill, I would be searching for more of those light-colored veins.
Maybe this guy knows the answer. (I was dying to post this earlier in the thread, along with the Tardis and the door, but couldn't find the print.)

Where is this? I'm currently in Arica, North Chile, and can see such things everyday...

Posted by: walfy Oct 18 2011, 06:09 PM

QUOTE (climber @ Oct 18 2011, 06:05 AM) *
...I'm currently in Arica, North Chile, and can see such things everyday...

Was in that same region a couple of years ago, visited the ESO's VLT, astounding how Mars-like the landscape is there. The Atacama makes the Mojave look like a lush garden! It's the place to go to get a sense of Mars on Earth.

Posted by: climber Oct 18 2011, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (walfy @ Oct 18 2011, 08:09 PM) *
astounding how Mars-like the landscape is there. The Atacama makes the Mojave look like a lush garden! It's the place to go to get a sense of Mars on Earth.

Yep! More Gussev like actually!
Look at this Dust Devil I shot yesterday! They were 10's of them.
Steve S. said recentely in an interview that Oppy is experiencing some cleaning in CY but there is no such a thing as DD dd.gif


Posted by: ngunn Oct 18 2011, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (tanjent @ Oct 18 2011, 04:09 AM) *
Could the phyllosilicates be in the dust?


No, or not mainly so, because as you point out dust is too mobile. There wouldn't be a striking hole in the distribution inside the crater, a place that is clearly accessible to dust. The clay minerals must either themselves consist of larger fragments or coat larger fragments of something else, possibly shattered igneous material. Clay minerals as an external weathered layer on harder grains would fit with Bill's suggestion that the clays formed in cracks rather than being the main bulk constituent of a 'clay layer'.

This leads to the question of whether or not the clays formed before the Endeavour impact. Accepting PaulM's obsevation that the clays on Cape Tribulation seem to follow layers I would say this leaves at least two possibilities open. Either, as PaulM suggests, there were clay-rich layers in place before the impact or, perhaps, there were layers of some rock that had the propensity to form clay minerals in fractures produced by the impact, presumably in the continuing presence of moisture. If we are seeing clay signatures from external coatings on many gravel-sized fragments I think that could point to the latter.

It's a complicated place and too early to draw conclusions for sure, but not too early to be thinking about it. I just marvel and celebrate the fact that we are freely provided with so much information that we can do that. smile.gif

Posted by: SFJCody Oct 18 2011, 11:41 PM

QUOTE
Sol Seq.Ver ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot Description
----- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
02750 p1595.02 0 0 0 0 0 0 navcam_sun_images_for_msl_pri58



Gathering info for Curiosity?

Posted by: djellison Oct 19 2011, 12:20 AM

They did that quite some time ago as well - checking how well the Navcam's can be used for sunfinding.

One result looked like this :
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/914/1N209342921EFF75GTP1926L0M1.JPG

another

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/908/1N208790029EFF746AP1926L0M1.JPG




Posted by: Explorer1 Oct 19 2011, 12:43 AM

If I didn't know better I'd say Cassini took those photos!

Posted by: PaulM Oct 19 2011, 11:44 AM

Scott Maxwell tweeted 10 hours ago:

"We now officially have winter plans: heading for the north side of Cape York. Nice northerly (sunny) tilts + good science = our winter home."

There seem to be large rock outcrops up there and so we can expect some nice color panoramas throughout the winter. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 19 2011, 01:34 PM

Here's a mosaic of the "post-drive" navcams from today's batch corresponding to sol 2749.


Posted by: Matt Lenda Oct 19 2011, 10:54 PM

QUOTE (PaulM @ Oct 19 2011, 03:44 AM) *
Scott Maxwell tweeted 10 hours ago:

"We now officially have winter plans: heading for the north side of Cape York. Nice northerly (sunny) tilts + good science = our winter home."

There seem to be large rock outcrops up there and so we can expect some nice color panoramas throughout the winter. rolleyes.gif

You bet! We'll sniff out those phyllosilicates on the way back south after winter is over... we just can't support the amount of activity and power that MB/APXS/MI'ing would require through the winter. We had some epically bad timing in getting to Cape York right as we hit Fall...

No biggie, there are great science things to get done while we map out the north side of CY and while we park for Solstice. (A park that, really, shouldn't last too long.)

-m

Posted by: fredk Oct 19 2011, 11:15 PM

Hmmm... Solstice is still over five months away - I wonder what current projections are saying about when we may need to park.

Too bad they couldn't find a nice north-facing clay-bearing outcrop to park on and MB for months at a time...

Posted by: Sunspot Oct 20 2011, 07:33 AM

The power must be really bad if they are thinking about parking already.

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 20 2011, 09:41 AM

Low, perhaps; bad, not really.
As far as I understood, they are predicting potentially low power around the winter solstice. Being that the case, you should start looking for a "parking area" while there's enough power to drive and absolutely not when you are already low on power.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 20 2011, 11:25 AM

It's probably CYA ("Cover Your Anterior") contigency planning. Here we have a geriatric Rover, decreased Winter light levels, dusty solar panels, a wheel motor wih a history of elevated current draw and a defunct sister at Gusev, so they're being cautious.

Being no Spring Chicken, were I out on Mars doing this traverse today I'd certainly pace myself...

--Bill

Posted by: Deimos Oct 20 2011, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 19 2011, 11:15 PM) *
Hmmm... Solstice is still over five months away - I wonder what current projections are saying about when we may need to park.


But aphelion is sooner, and near the Martian equator, that is as big a deal. With extra dust on the arrays and extra dust above them, and the sort-of sine-wave slow approach to the minima, power to support driving to a lily pad goes away sooner rather than later. Add a local SE facing slope and it is not like lily pads are dotting the landscape, so they would need to be found and proven to be real (easy to get false positives from a DEM). Hmm, almost convinced myself there....

Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 20 2011, 01:15 PM

Throw in an unexpected sand trap or mechanical difficulties and waiting 'til the last weeks, or even last months, to look for the best wintering spot is a recipe for disaster. Better to be prudent with foresight than regretful with hindsight. Besides, all those who wanted desperately to check out that "mystery crack" at the North end of Cape York must be happy, whatever the reason for heading North.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 20 2011, 02:21 PM

360x90 Navcam anaglyph sol 2750

 

Posted by: djellison Oct 20 2011, 02:29 PM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Oct 19 2011, 11:33 PM) *
The power must be really bad if they are thinking about parking already.


This statement really does baffle me.

Do you not remember the mad rush before Winter Haven 1 on the SE side of Home Plate or WH3 on it's Northern slope.

Is Troy really that long ago that you've just forgotten how we lost Spirit?

Or maybe you always let the fuel light on your car come on, drive another 50 miles and let the engine start spluttering before even thinking about a gas station.

I don't, and fortunately, neither do the MER folks.

Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 20 2011, 02:38 PM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Oct 20 2011, 03:33 AM) *
The power must be really bad if they are thinking about parking already.

Besides what's already been said, Opportunity will not be "parking already". The idea is to find an area where exploration can continue with a minimum of energy worries and where a good parking spot is close at hand if it becomes necessary.

Posted by: fredk Oct 20 2011, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (Deimos @ Oct 20 2011, 01:38 PM) *
But aphelion is sooner, and near the Martian equator, that is as big a deal.

Of course, thanks for reminding me of that. At Oppy's latitude of about 2 degrees S, the Sun would be only marginally lower (4 degrees, actually) in the north during (southern) winter solstice than it is in the south during summer solstice. So ignoring the other effects (distance from Sun, dust, tilt), winter solstice wouldn't be too much worse power-wise than summer solstice.

I can see perihelion having a big impact on available energy. But I wonder as well about the temperatures. Presubably there's a "perihelion winter" effect, even though we're sitting almost on the equator so normally you'd expect only subtle seasons. So perhaps we also have to factor in a greater need for power to keep heaters running through perihelion.

Posted by: stevesliva Oct 20 2011, 06:04 PM

QUOTE (Sunspot @ Oct 20 2011, 03:33 AM) *
The power must be really bad if they are thinking about parking already.

They're pretty open about the dust/insolation/power numbers here:
http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/mission/status_opportunityAll.html

QUOTE
With her solar arrays dustier and atmospheric opacity higher than in past years, the winter will be more challenging. So, Opportunity has been surveying regions with favorable northerly tilts so she can spend the winter months actively exploring. ...
As of Sol 2744 (Oct. 13, 2011), solar array energy production was 316 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.791 and a solar array dust factor of 0.498.


That watt-hour number is not significantly worse than the previous few weeks. It is substantially worse than the previous months.

Posted by: stevesliva Oct 20 2011, 06:08 PM

QUOTE (Deimos @ Oct 20 2011, 08:38 AM) *
But aphelion is sooner, and near the Martian equator, that is as big a deal. With extra dust on the arrays and extra dust above them, and the sort-of sine-wave slow approach to the minima, power to support driving to a lily pad goes away sooner rather than later. Add a local SE facing slope and it is not like lily pads are dotting the landscape, so they would need to be found and proven to be real (easy to get false positives from a DEM). Hmm, almost convinced myself there....


Like this post. Boy did I ever feel that sinewave after Labor Day. Walking the dogs in the dark now.

Posted by: marsophile Oct 20 2011, 07:37 PM

Another factor is that the areas we would most like to explore have a southern tilt. Unfortunately, a tilt in the wrong direction produces a change of greater magnitude than a tilt in the right direction in this case.

Posted by: Stu Oct 20 2011, 10:11 PM

I guess what would be really helpful would be for one of the rover drivers to talk to a MER blog about the team's plans for the winter, and maybe even ID the actual spot on Cape York they're heading for...

Oh, look...

http://roadtoendeavour.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/planning-for-winter-another-chat-with-scott

smile.gif

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 20 2011, 11:31 PM

... and so ends three pages of hand-wringing and speculation. Thanks Stu for bringing us those most excellent questions and and the answers straight from the horse's mouth.

Posted by: eoincampbell Oct 20 2011, 11:45 PM

Excellent interview, thanks Stu

Posted by: atomoid Oct 21 2011, 01:45 AM

yes, excellent interview, its great to get such detail!

Recent posts bring up what i remeber being concerned about -now YEARS ago- about limits to Oppy's lifespan in spite of the solar panel condition due to some other components long past warranty (degradation of battery and RTG component warmers, others?) but i havent heard any discussion about those things for years and couldnt find anything relevant searching UMSF threads. Yes im Oppytomistic, but can anyone address those concerns?

Posted by: stevesliva Oct 21 2011, 03:31 AM

QUOTE (atomoid @ Oct 20 2011, 09:45 PM) *
can anyone address those concerns?


Probably not. It's not like there are statistics from the last 10,000 rovers. And I doubt the RHUs are too much a concern for the first decade. wink.gif

Posted by: ngunn Oct 21 2011, 10:16 AM

Quoting Scott on the view across Endeavour:
it’ll take me a while to get used to
the view, to really internalize it.


I'm sure some of us share this feeling. I was wondering (fredk wink.gif) if we have traversed far enough along Cape York for a good long baseline anaglyph showing the central mound and far rim features in 3D?

Posted by: PDP8E Oct 21 2011, 02:15 PM

Thank you Stu (and Scott!) for a well reported interview on a subject that most us just can't get enough info about.

Posted by: Stu Oct 21 2011, 03:42 PM

You're welcome - and I should say here that two of the questions were Dan's, so he should be thanked too smile.gif

So... northwards we go... and there's some very interesting terrain up ahead...


Posted by: fredk Oct 21 2011, 03:54 PM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 21 2011, 11:16 AM) *
I was wondering (fredk wink.gif) if we have traversed far enough along Cape York for a good long baseline anaglyph
Yep! Thanks for pointing this out - it didn't even occur to me to try this.

Here are two long baseline anaglyphs, made from 2710/2742 and 2710/2746 navcam mosaics from mhoward. Warning: these are probably for advanced anaglyphists, and may induce headaches etc:


Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 21 2011, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 21 2011, 07:54 AM) *
Warning: these are probably for advanced anaglyphists, and may induce headaches etc:

As an advanced anaglyphist it just so happens that I keep a bottle of Irish anaglyph-headache medication in my bottom desk drawer for occasions such as this (and many others).

Posted by: mhoward Oct 21 2011, 04:35 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 21 2011, 08:54 AM) *
Here are two long baseline anaglyphs, made from 2710/2742 and 2710/2746 navcam mosaics

Those are really cool. Worth the headache.

Speaking of anaglyphs, here's the usual Navcam anaglyph for sol 2751.

 

Posted by: fredk Oct 21 2011, 05:24 PM

Thanks for the great interview, Stu! Maxwell's mention of the C6 destination area makes sense - that corresponds to the left side of the top of CY that we saw on approach to Endeavour, as seen in this view from 2669:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/2669/1N365121761EFFBKN5P1797R0M1.JPG

The MSL connection with winter haven plans was interesting too. But we did have this comment in the latest http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status_opportunityAll.html#sol2745

QUOTE
The plan ahead is to continue to drive toward the north end of Cape York and to capture any opportunistic in-situ (contact) science alone the way. Light-toned veins in the rock outcrop, possibly fracture fill, have been seen around Cape York. If Opportunity encounters one of these veins along the way, a brief robotic-arm science campaign may be conducted.

Posted by: ngunn Oct 21 2011, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 21 2011, 04:54 PM) *
long baseline anaglyphs


Very interesting - thanks for doing those. The only bit I can't quite get to work is the leftmost end where the effective baseline is shorter and everything is just too bland topography- and contrast-wise for the eye to find a 'key'. I hope a pancam version of at least the middle part becomes possible soon.


Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 21 2011, 06:18 PM

This is mhoward's sol 2750 pan in circular form.

Phil


Posted by: mhoward Oct 21 2011, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Oct 21 2011, 12:18 PM) *
This is mhoward's sol 2750 pan in circular form.


Extracted from the anaglyph! Cool, you just doubled my efficiency. laugh.gif

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 21 2011, 08:00 PM

You're welcome! Yes, it was extracted, or as I prefer to think of it, stolen, from the anaglyph... after all, each anaglyph is just two panoramas. In fact I used one to patch the other to get rid of a bad bit on the horizon.

Phil


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 21 2011, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (Mike)
Extracted from the anaglyph! Cool...
Easy to do-- use an image editor to separate an RGB image into the component red, green and blue channels. The RED channel is one stereo channel, the GREEN and BLUE (combined to make cyan of the anaglyph) channels are two identical grayscale images. Discard one. You end up with a right and a left grayscale stereo pair which can be used to make an x-eyed stereo image.

--Bill

Posted by: Stu Oct 21 2011, 09:30 PM

...and speaking of anaglyphs, been working on one to bring out details in the area where we now know Oppy will be spending the winter...


Posted by: ngunn Oct 21 2011, 10:14 PM

Brilliant! When we have to be wintered in C6 there seems to be an alternative hideout in D5.

But stare as I might I can't see any significant relief in Dagger Valley.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 21 2011, 11:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Oct 21 2011, 02:00 PM) *
after all, each anaglyph is just two panoramas


I meant that it's good to know you can extract them from the anaglyph if wanted, because posting the left and right as well as the anaglyph seems like overkill sometimes. The main reason I've been posting both left and right is so that you can encirclify them.

Posted by: atomoid Oct 21 2011, 11:06 PM

relief map, just what the doctor ordered, Mars is truly a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ5sWfhkpE0&feature=player_embedded!!

im still wondering how many years ago Oppy's battery shoudl have died, wish my laptop would fare as well!

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 22 2011, 12:53 AM

I see what you mean about posting the extra pans... certainly from my point of view I don't need the additional raw panoramas, unless the quality is significantly improved I suppose... but others may prefer a single pan.

Quite the team we have here!

Phil


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 22 2011, 02:42 AM

Lot'sa of new placenames the past few days:

02743 p2410 Sheba
02749 p2414 Onverwacht
02751 p2560. Hooggenoeg
02751 p2561 Tjakastad
02751 p2562 Moodies

--Bill

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 22 2011, 11:38 AM

Outcrop Onverwacht on Shoemaker Ridge
L257 Sol-2749

This is significant-- note the _brown_ zones in the rocks and the residiuum.



--Bill

Posted by: tanjent Oct 22 2011, 11:47 AM

Excellent anaglyph, Stu, you really did bring out the fine details. What is the vertical scale factor?
I recall that at some point on the long traverse from Victoria we were surprised to figure out just how little genuine relief there is on Cape York.

Posted by: fredk Oct 22 2011, 03:31 PM

Well, CY's about 800 metres long, and the highest parts (N part) stick very roughly 10ish metres above the slope into Endeavour.

How the anaglyph looks depends on your monitor size, distance from monitor, etc, but most likely the relief looks heavily exagerated.

Posted by: Stu Oct 22 2011, 04:06 PM

No vertical exaggeration at my end. I just took the anaglyph from this HiRISE page:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010341_1775

...and worked on it, basically just sharpening it up, boosting the contrast and changing the gamma values etc until finer details and features jumped out a little more. Not sure what vertical stretching the HiRISE anaglyphs have.

Posted by: Stu Oct 22 2011, 04:10 PM

Colour view of Onverwacht...


Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 22 2011, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 22 2011, 04:42 AM) *
Lot'sa of new placenames the past few days:

02743 p2410 Sheba
02749 p2414 Onverwacht
02751 p2560. Hooggenoeg
02751 p2561 Tjakastad
02751 p2562 Moodies

--Bill

So, we moved from Canada (Tisdale and co.) to South Africa. smile.gif
A search on the names point to the latter.

----

On a different matter, we are way after Shoemaker Ridge so I though it would be ok to update the thread name: Cape York - Shoemaker Ridge and the NE traverse
(now, if I just can remember how to do it ...got it!)

Posted by: climber Oct 22 2011, 08:24 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 22 2011, 05:31 PM) *
Well, CY's about 800 metres long,

Regarding a recent comment from Scott about feeling Endeavour size, CY's = Victoria's.

Posted by: Stu Oct 22 2011, 09:03 PM

If I may, some more size comparisons here...

http://roadtoendeavour.wordpress.com/2011/04/16/sizing-up-cape-york

smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Oct 22 2011, 09:26 PM

Here's a pseudo-false-color anaglyph of Onverwacht (sol 2749). Painful, I know. The red-cyan separation of anaglyphs doesn't play well with real (or even false) color, especially with a color scheme which is skewed toward red.

If anyone out there has a iPhone/iPod Touch with a http://www.hasbro.com/hasbromy3d, the latter two images are compatible with that device.


 

Posted by: mhoward Oct 22 2011, 09:48 PM

Here's a 90-degree-wide view facing east around sol 2749, showing the context of Onverwacht:

 

Posted by: brellis Oct 23 2011, 12:02 AM

My mind's eye has been pretty set on the view into Endeavour as compared to the view of the San Fernando Valley from Mulholland Dr. smile.gif




 

Posted by: Oersted Oct 23 2011, 10:47 AM

To help rover driver Scott (and the rest of us) visualizing the size of Endeavour, I think It could be cool to put some Empire State Buildings or Eiffel Towers into the panoramas of the crater. We need something a little bigger than Mystery Man for those distances! It would be especially interesting to see those buildings giving scale to Tribulation and to the mountains on the other side of the crater. Anyone up for it? smile.gif

Posted by: Stu Oct 23 2011, 11:17 AM

Great idea! You should give it a go! smile.gif

Posted by: Oersted Oct 23 2011, 11:37 AM

Oh, that would be way above my feeble skills... - I defer to the experts!

Posted by: Stu Oct 23 2011, 12:13 PM

That's the way I used to think, too, but gave it a go and gradually I've made it to the 'not bad if I say so myself!' level. And
really there's room here for everyone's efforts, and you won't learn unless you try, will you? smile.gif

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 23 2011, 02:09 PM

QUOTE (brellis @ Oct 22 2011, 05:02 PM) *
Endeavour as compared to the view of the San Fernando Valley from Mulholland Dr. smile.gif

Very nice. I like the view from http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=34.131496,-118.55322&spn=0.003406,0.006968&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6 past the golf course. The mountains are too high of course, but the distance to the Santa Susanas above Granada Hills is roughly accurate.

 

Posted by: ngunn Oct 23 2011, 02:43 PM

QUOTE (Oersted @ Oct 23 2011, 11:47 AM) *
Empire State Buildings or Eiffel Towers


Great idea, but I'd go for a Saturn V.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 23 2011, 07:37 PM

A couple stereo pairs of Fairview.

 

Posted by: Oersted Oct 23 2011, 08:12 PM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 23 2011, 04:43 PM) *
Great idea, but I'd go for a Saturn V.


Most of us have seen either one or the other of the two buildings but very few - I guess - have seen the Saturn V in person. Anyway, any well-known landmark would do perfectly well, maybe it would be even better with even bigger landmarks, small mountains for instance. Or a cruise ship or supertanker standing on its end... smile.gif

Posted by: ngunn Oct 23 2011, 09:23 PM

True, but I think we'd get used to it. One check against something you knew would do the calibration. I was thinking it would be a nice homage to all those space artists from Chesley Bonestell onward who have portrayed rockets standing on the surface of Mars.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 23 2011, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (MHoward)
iPhone/iPod Touch with a my3D, the latter two images are compatible

Nice, but be advised that these are not x-eyed stereo, and one can sproing one's eyes trying to view au naturel. blink.gif

Easy cut-and-paste fix at home, though.

--Bill

Posted by: mhoward Oct 23 2011, 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 23 2011, 03:37 PM) *
Easy cut-and-paste fix at home, though.


What's the fix? I ask just for information purposes - I've never been able to view stereo pairs au naturel myself.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 24 2011, 12:03 AM

Simple-- in an image editor, swap the images left-right. The "right channel" image needs to be on the left and and the "left channel" image needs to be on the right for "cross-eyed" viewing. It's an acquired habit and one that needs practice. And it helps to be nearsighted.

Most of the close-in Pancam stereo pairs need to be rotated and aligned because of the way the camera mast moves, and L257 and R721 images need to be color-matched, so you've done 90% of the work already. Thanks!

--Bill

Posted by: PDP8E Oct 24 2011, 02:04 AM

Here is my first crude attempt at putting the Eiffel Tower in Endeavour Crater

The Eiffel is almost exactly 1000 feet tall
The crater is almost 14 miles across, so half way across is 7 miles or roughly 40K feet
At that distance a 1000 foot object would appear 1.43 degrees tall. (right triangle math)
Each Pancam pixel resolves 0.28 mrads
1.43 degrees is about 24 mrads
So the tower would be about 80 pixels tall at 40,000 feet away.
I found a silhouette online and shrunk it to 80 pixels.
(please check my math....)

I put the Eiffel on top of the center mound in the crater, thinking it represented about halfway across.
(i didn't tilt the image to match the tower, so we have a leaning tower of eiffel...)

Your mileage may vary...





Posted by: walfy Oct 24 2011, 03:15 AM

The winds of Mars sandblast the rocks in such a way that uncanny projections stick way out at times, more so than we see on Earth. I would guess due to the weaker gravity. This new one is exceptionally top-heavy:




Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 24 2011, 03:48 AM

Its probably not so much lower gravity causing these unlikely balanced rocks as it is a lack of other forces acting on them on the plains of Meridiani. They sit there for millions of years with nothing but the slow steady erosion of wind and the gentle pull of gravity eroding ever so slowly in the same direction for eons. There is no frost heaving, nor snow melt, nor glaciers, nor any erosion caused by any water of any kind. There are no earthquakes, no land slides and very little mass-wasting in this region. No trees falling over, no animals stomping on them, no tree roots pushing up from under them. I'm guessing that we won't see as many balancing-egg structures in the steep canyons of Valles Marineris where landslides and slumping are more common or near the poles where the frosts come and go seasonally.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 24 2011, 04:12 AM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 22 2011, 10:06 AM) *
No vertical exaggeration at my end. I just took the anaglyph from this HiRISE page: ...

A while back (actually, about 5 years ago) we had http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3543&view=findpost&p=76657 regarding vertical exaggeration in HiRise stereo pairs. The geometry is fairly straightforward and the HiRise site provides the required information about the viewing angles from which the angular separation between the images can be determined. I posted an Excel spreadsheet back then which calculates the vertical exaggeration for a defined image pair based on the distance between your eyes and your monitor.

If you are comfortable with editing spreadsheets, http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3543&view=findpost&p=76811to calculate the vertical exaggeration inherent in the pair of images used in an anaglyph, if you know which HiRise images were used.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 24 2011, 08:08 AM

Just snagged yesterday's 18:35 data upload. No new Pancam morsels but we have a new 360 deg Navcam pan, which is always great for context and circular pans. Looks like Oppy is continuing to tiptoe along the ridgetop towards "winterhaven" with the light-toned (reddish, actually) wind-deflated area to the right (east) and the rippled, net-deposition area in the wind shadow to the left (west).

--Bill

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 24 2011, 08:35 AM

According to the "telemetry", this last drive moved the rover left of the ridgetop. I will provide a map update later on.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 24 2011, 08:59 AM

...but we've been moving along the west (left) side of the ridgetop since we hit Shoemaker Ridge. The heading will change more northward, in the direction of "winterhaven".

--Bill

Posted by: Stu Oct 24 2011, 10:03 AM

3D view of latest panorama... loving those hills...

http://twitpic.com/752kts

Crop of faraway hills...


Posted by: Oersted Oct 24 2011, 11:46 AM

QUOTE (PDP8E @ Oct 24 2011, 04:04 AM) *
Here is my first crude attempt at putting the Eiffel Tower in Endeavour Crater


Crude yes, but a good first attempt! If you got the size right, then this is actually the first image that really tells me, viscerally, how big Endeavour is.

Now it would be good to plop the Eiffel Tower down in an image with a zoom-factor of around 50mm, which approximates that of the human eye.

I just finished Bill Bryson's Australia book "Down Under" on the plane today, and came across this: "Uluru is not merely a very splendid and mighty monolith, but also an extremely distinctive one. More than this, it is very possibly the most immediately recognizable natural object on earth. I'm suggesting nothing here, but I will say that if you were an intergalactic traveller who had broken down in our solar system, the obvious directions to rescuers would be: 'Go to the third planet and fly around till you see the big red rock. You can't miss it.'"

- Well, since I walked around Ayer's Rock one enchanted January day this year, I have to agree with Bryson. I and my sore footsoles have a really good feel for how big it is, so that geological wonder would be another good size indicator for me at least...

Posted by: Stu Oct 24 2011, 12:28 PM

Now I couldn't resist giving that a go...!

1) Uluru vs Cape York...



2) Uluru vs Endeavour Crater...



Fascinating!

(and a great idea for a blog post, thanks! smile.gif )

Posted by: mhoward Oct 24 2011, 03:06 PM

360x90 anaglyph Navcam panorama centered on north for sol 2754


 

Posted by: Oersted Oct 24 2011, 03:30 PM

QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 24 2011, 02:28 PM) *
Now I couldn't resist giving that a go...!

1) Uluru vs Cape York...

2) Uluru vs Endeavour Crater...

Fascinating!

(and a great idea for a blog post, thanks! smile.gif )


You're welcome!
- Soeren

Ok, walking around Uluru was a leisurely 4-hour walk, so Cape York wouldn't take much more than half an hour. As for Endeavour Crater.... Wowsers! Even bigger than I thought: it is positively humongous...

Now for those perspective views in images taken at a focal length of 50mm... smile.gif

(And sorry for not doing them myself, but I am sitting at work computers with nothing more than "Paint" on them...)


Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 24 2011, 03:31 PM

'Fairview' sol 2753
Pancam flicker gif L257 R2-1


Posted by: mhoward Oct 24 2011, 03:33 PM

Pancam "drive direction" anaglyph sol 2754, facing approximately NE

 

Posted by: marsophile Oct 24 2011, 03:40 PM

What are Oppy's chances of getting a "cleaning event" as it advances up the hillside at Cape York? Do we know anything about the wind patterns around Endeavour?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 24 2011, 04:14 PM

Circular version of mhowards's anaglyph... I find that one problem with using the anaglyph like this is that the seam where the end meet (south in these views) is messed up a bit, where it would not be with a normal panorama. But it's not too bad.

Small hill on the horizon due west - it's Pathfinder Mound.

Phil


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 24 2011, 04:57 PM

Neat, Phil. I suspected that the bump to the due west was Pathfinder Mound, but I am puzzled by the similar bump to the NW (about N45W). My older Route Maps are archived away but the one "large scale" reference shows just a very eroded crater there, or possibly a small ridge along that azmuth. Most of my good HiRISE maps are near the travserse path for use as context.

At any rate, this is, I believe, our first "lookback" towards the Meridiani highland since we arrived at CY.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 24 2011, 05:29 PM

I guess I'll go back to posting left, right and anaglyph for the Navcam panoramas, unless I get complaints about using too much disk space. The tradeoff is you won't get thumbnails.

Sol 2754 360x90 degree Navcam http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2754NavcamLeft.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2754NavcamRight.jpg

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 24 2011, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 24 2011, 06:57 PM) *
... but I am puzzled by the similar bump to the NW (about N45W). My older Route Maps are archived away but the one "large scale" reference shows just a very eroded crater there, or possibly a small ridge along that azmuth. Most of my good HiRISE maps are near the travserse path for use as context.


Mariner 9 (aka "Approach Crater") is on that heading but I'll take this ID with care because it's also twice the distance to Pathfinder Mound.

Posted by: atomoid Oct 24 2011, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (marsophile @ Oct 24 2011, 08:40 AM) *
What are Oppy's chances of getting a "cleaning event" as it advances up the hillside at Cape York? Do we know anything about the wind patterns around Endeavour?

i am hoping the topography here is more suitable for gusts or vortices to form, at least here more than anywhere since leaving Victoria i would venture to guess, but still just hoping.. you might have missed Stu's http://roadtoendeavour.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/planning-for-winter-another-chat-with-scott (thanks again Stu!) it is highly worth reading..

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM

No telling at this point about that "NW Bump". It lies at the point where the mid-ground horizon on CY intersects with the background horizon on the Meridiani highland, so it may be near or far. We'll be able to tell more in a few days travel as the perspective changes.


The one on the left is Phil's Bump and the one on the right is the Abstruse Bump...

--Bill

 

Posted by: brellis Oct 25 2011, 12:29 AM

Rereading Stu's latest interview with Scott Maxwell -- after all these years it hadn't been readily apparent that being a rover driver is a bit like "feast or famine". You're either in a constant push to map out, execute and review the results of drives, or you're stuck in purgatory, parked in a winter haven or otherwise staying put while the MER is performing all those *science* activities!

Posted by: walfy Oct 25 2011, 05:44 PM

Oppy's tracks nicely framed today, with the drop-off to the crater showing up in 3D:




Posted by: mhoward Oct 25 2011, 08:52 PM

Here's a my3D stereo pair of the Pancam foreground on sol 2755, and a couple extras.


 

Posted by: atomoid Oct 25 2011, 11:10 PM

nice stereo pairs! (above and in recent posts), unfortunately for me they would have to be reversed to be viewable using the cross-eye method, so im not sure how to view these without any incidental accoutrements. anyone have suggestions?

Posted by: marsophile Oct 26 2011, 12:01 AM

QUOTE (atomoid @ Oct 25 2011, 04:10 PM) *
... reversed to be viewable using the cross-eye method, so im not sure how to view these without any incidental accoutrements. anyone have suggestions?


There is the low-tech method of bringing up two copies of the image, side-by-side, in two browser windows. These can be aligned in such a way as to facilitate cross-eye viewing. The windows can be resized or scrolled as necessary.

Posted by: fredk Oct 26 2011, 12:23 AM

It is a shame that that 3D format has the wrong order for cross-eyed viewing, but that format seems to be designed for use with a simple stereoscope (view-master idea, for those old enough!), so that means parallel rather than cross-eyed.

The two-window idea is simple enough. But I use http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/ (for viewing and creating my anaglyphs). To view these stereo pairs, I just drag into stereophoto maker and hit the "swap left/right" button. This has the advantage that you can easily pan across wide cross-eyed pairs (such as full nav or pancams).

Posted by: Jam Butty Oct 26 2011, 01:08 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 26 2011, 01:23 AM) *
But I use http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/ (for viewing and creating my anaglyphs).

Thanks for the link,
that's a great bit of software.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 26 2011, 05:39 PM

There are now images of the following sites on Shoemaker Ridge at my photo website (URL in signature):

Sol-
02749 p2414 Onverwacht
02753 p2418 Havelock
02751 p2560. Hooggenoeg
02751 p2561 Tjakastad
02753 p2564 Fairview

current pancam_foreground_quarter images

--Bill

Posted by: Gladstoner Oct 26 2011, 07:41 PM

.

Posted by: walfy Oct 26 2011, 08:45 PM

QUOTE (Gladstoner @ Oct 26 2011, 11:41 AM) *
...but it is more natural than the brutal cross-eyed method. smile.gif

Totally agree. The parallel method might take a little more practice, but it's pure relaxation compared to the cross-eyed method!

Posted by: atomoid Oct 26 2011, 11:12 PM

thanks, i tried and got it to work (yes, by *not* trying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXmz605GAnc), and is far easier on the eyes!
The only drawback is that i cant make the image pair much larger than the natural distance beteen my eyes as measured across the computer screen, but for smaller sizes it works great. thanks again for the tip!

For anyone who wants to get started here are some tips:
1) Try http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=25811 in the http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7081&view=findpost&p=179540.
2) shrink the resltant window to about half size or smaller, the smaller the easier it is get inital focus.
3) look in a very relaxed way at the center so that in this example the white rock in the bottom of the two images suddenly 'snap' together as one, then hold the line!
4) gradually drag the window size larger as large as possible, eventually the stereo effect deteriorates and you lose focus as the distance beteen the focal point for each eye one the screen starts to exceed your interocular distance.

As a bonus, you can also parellelify anaglyphs using the excellent http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/ previously referred to.
Take some of the fine anaglyphs generous folks have posted to UMSF such as http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=7081&view=findpost&p=179536 and open as anaglyph, then change to side by side and swap sides, shrink and view!

Posted by: PDP8E Oct 27 2011, 02:45 AM

This is one of the best NavCam shots ever taken by Oppy (... IMHO pancam.gif ... )

Sol 2756. Its a little after 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a far away planet

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-26/1N372857237EFFBPV5P1897L0M1.JPG



Posted by: walfy Oct 27 2011, 04:48 AM

QUOTE (PDP8E @ Oct 26 2011, 06:45 PM) *
...one of the best NavCam shots ever taken by Oppy...

Here's a slice of that shot for viewing in parallel, not cross-eyed. It's narrow so it can be viewed without special equipment. Still not as spectacular as the original. Unfortunately, this method for 3D viewing without equipment is limited to narrow slices of images in the vertical. It still can be lots of fun.



Posted by: pgrindrod Oct 27 2011, 05:04 AM

I've been meaning to do this for a while, but was inspired by being lucky enough to meet Jim Bell this week, and look at some recent anaglyphs with him. So, here's my take on the topography of Cape York from my HiRISE DEM (still getting some mileage out of this thing!), showing the slope and the aspect.



So because Oppy needs a north-facing slope, you can really see here why they're heading towards the top of Cape York. I'm sure others can pick out some of the possible best areas better than my jetlag will allow.

Pete

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 27 2011, 05:28 AM

Very nice. smile.gif Thank you.

Posted by: AndyG Oct 27 2011, 10:29 AM

Love that data, Pete.

Is there any chance you could combine the slope and aspect results?

Maybe run this:

angle = ACOS((sin(slope)*cos(aspect)*sin(sol))+(cos(slope)*cos(sol)))

Where:
slope is measured in radians
aspect in radians from north, going clockwise
sol is 0.576 in radians (90-57 degrees, from the axial tilt and rover latitude)

...to produce a range of angles from 0 to PI to determine the best (angle = 0) attitude for the rover's panels based on slope and aspect for the midwinter noon.

Andy

EDIT: sol is 0.471 in radians (27 degrees - being the winter axial tilt and rover's latitude of 2 degrees south). Thanks Fred!

Posted by: ngunn Oct 27 2011, 12:01 PM

Great maps! I'm a little puzzled by the slope one though. It seems to show no areas with 0-5 degrees slope, whereas there must be such places, e.g. on the summit of CY and on the saddle joining it to the plains. Is the colour key all shifted by one colour perhaps?

Posted by: pgrindrod Oct 27 2011, 02:33 PM

Ah, the perils of posting on UMSF when jetlagged - there are lots of eagle-eyed people out there! Thanks for spotting that mistake on the slope map label, I made it myself and got my numbers wrong, apologies. There are of course quite a few slopes that are between 0 and 5 degrees. It should be something more like this:



Combining the slope and aspect is a great idea, and I'll give it a go when I get chance.
Pete

Posted by: Stu Oct 27 2011, 02:52 PM

"New Consort"...



I love staring into these surface close-up images and picking out all the different shaped/hued chips and shards of stone... smile.gif

Posted by: SteveM Oct 27 2011, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (AndyG @ Oct 27 2011, 05:29 AM) *
Love that data, Pete.

Is there any chance you could combine the slope and aspect results?

Second Andy's thanks for the excellent presentation, but agree with him on the desirability of combining slope and aspect data.

My choice would be to keep your hue based aspect information, but encode the slope as saturation, with increasing slope indicated by increased saturation. It would provide a fairly intuitive presentation.

Can anyone suggest an easy way to do that?

SteveM

Posted by: mhoward Oct 27 2011, 03:43 PM

Sol 2756 360x90 Navcam panorama

http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2756NavcamLeft.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2756NavcamRight.jpg http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2756NavcamAnaglyph.jpg

Posted by: AndyG Oct 27 2011, 03:57 PM

Hi Steve,

My post #250 would produce one number for each pixel - the "angle from rover-normal to the noon midwinter sun" - and this number (the potential insolation) takes into account the slope and the aspect.

What are the limitations on drivability? Not aspect, so much - we know north is best, but that's subsumed in the insolation. The slope, however, is an issue relating to the stability limits of Opportunity. The steepest slopes are best avoided.

So maybe a more visually useful presentation would be to combine potential insolation with slope.

Say a range of white-green-yellow-red for insolation, and simply black out any slopes over X degrees.

Andy

Posted by: ngunn Oct 27 2011, 05:29 PM

How about just mapping the northward component of the slope vector? Not as sophisticated as your solution Andy, but maybe easier to do and simpler to understand when done.

Great anaglyph pan mhoward. Eyeball to eyeball with the summit!

Posted by: fredk Oct 27 2011, 07:07 PM

Thanks a lot for those maps, Pete. I agree a simple estimate of the northward component of slope is all we really need. There's got to be enough uncertainty in the DEM that too much effort is pointless. This is basically what the team has done before, like http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/20060404.html

The slopes on CY don't look too bad - apart from very small features, the only areas that might be a problem for driving are the east sides of the big "knobs" on the north part of CY, and those are sloping east, so we'll probably ignore them anyway.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 27 2011, 08:32 PM

Here's a my3D stereo pair for "New Consort". Only so much can be done with L257R2 (as far as I know), but it actually more or less works for me.

 

Posted by: Nix Oct 27 2011, 08:45 PM

I remember registering the color info only from the left channel per Photoshop > copy left image > paste onto right image > left 'top' layer 'layer blend mode' screen > register with select and skew / distort / warp / etc ... > 'layer blend mode' to color smile.gif I'll try uploading something somewhere..

Posted by: fredk Oct 27 2011, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (walfy @ Oct 27 2011, 05:48 AM) *
Unfortunately, this method for 3D viewing without equipment is limited to narrow slices of images in the vertical.
You can use the stereophoto maker software I linked to to view stereo pairs as wide as you like, either crosseyed or parallel, and without shrinking the images. Click "100" to view at 100% scale, then narrow the window until your eyes can fuse the images. Then you can just drag the images to scroll across.

Posted by: Nix Oct 27 2011, 09:18 PM

stereo-rightframecolor-stolen-from-leftframe..

 

Posted by: mhoward Oct 27 2011, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Nix @ Oct 27 2011, 03:18 PM) *
stereo-rightframecolor-stolen-from-leftframe.. (small size)


Nice color matching! So small it's blurry in my3D though.

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 27 2011, 11:21 PM

QUOTE (SteveM @ Oct 27 2011, 08:06 AM) *
Can anyone suggest an easy way to do that?


Use the "replace color" feature in Photoshop. Start with the lowest setting, and then replace the next color with that same color, but turn up the saturation a bit, and continue up through the scale.

Posted by: Nix Oct 27 2011, 11:37 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Oct 28 2011, 01:08 AM) *
Nice color matching! So small it's blurry in my3D though.


fixed:)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 28 2011, 12:20 AM

mhoward's latest pan in circular format...

Phil


Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 28 2011, 01:41 AM

Very good, Phil-- I was hoping you would post one of your Polar Pans of this latest Navcam Pan.

Oppy is still moving along just to the west of the ridgetop and should be within sight of "winterhaven" within the next driving Sol or two. That site ought to look much like the areas we've seen to the east (our right) the past few days-- light/reddish-toned with plenty of neat rocks and outcrops.

--Bill

Posted by: pgrindrod Oct 28 2011, 04:34 AM

Hmm, does this help? I think I've managed to whip Arc into shape enough to do AndyG's suggestion of combining slope and aspect. The perspective view is x3 vertical exaggeration.




I think it's probably showing us what we kind of know already, and probably pushing the helpfulness of the data, but nice nonetheless.

Pete

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 28 2011, 04:43 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 27 2011, 02:07 PM) *
... I agree a simple estimate of the northward component of slope is all we really need.
I've really enjoyed this discussion about ways to map the important data for Oppy's next winter haven choice. I wonder about this, though. Is a simple estimate of the northward component of the slope all we need? What if the northward component is just right in a Goldilocks sense, but the eastward or westward slope component exceeds the stability specification for the rover?

Posted by: Fran Ontanaya Oct 28 2011, 06:07 AM

@SteveM: On GIMP, create a gradient with whatever color steps you want, then apply Colors | Gradient Map. On Photoshop it will be Layer | New Adjustment layer | Gradient Map, I think.

For just color coding, it's better to make a color map layer with full colors, then set blend mode to Color and adjust Alpha to get the desired amount of saturation. That way you don't need to fiddle with your base gradient.

Posted by: djellison Oct 28 2011, 07:03 AM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Oct 27 2011, 09:43 PM) *
What if the northward component is just right in a Goldilocks sense, but the eastward or westward slope component exceeds the stability specification for the rover?


It it had a lot of westward component.....it wouldn't be a northward slope any more.

Posted by: ngunn Oct 28 2011, 07:48 AM

Looks like we're on the top: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-28/1N373034310EFFBP2IP0613R0M1.JPG smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Posted by: Stu Oct 28 2011, 08:22 AM

Thatta girl, Oppy! smile.gif

Clearer view to the north, definitely, but the good stuff is out of sight, behind that rise over on the right...






Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 28 2011, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 28 2011, 09:48 AM) *
Looks like we're on the top: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/navcam/2011-10-28/1N373034310EFFBP2IP0613R0M1.JPG smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif


We are following a path left of the "summit".

Posted by: AndyG Oct 28 2011, 10:50 AM

QUOTE (pgrindrod @ Oct 28 2011, 05:34 AM) *



Many thanks, Pete. I like that a lot! smile.gif

Andy

Posted by: ngunn Oct 28 2011, 10:55 AM

Ah - a chance to examine the light-toned 'flange' around Cape York that we crossed so swiftly at Spirit Point. We're only about a metre below the highest point here so the cameras should just about have a clear 180 degree view across Endeavour should they choose to look that way.

Someone (fredk?) recently re-posted a view of the summit from the vicinity of pathfinder mound. If anyone were so inclined It should now be possible to 'place' the rover at today's location within that view. I think that would nicely put the scale of our recent rovings in perspective.

Posted by: Oersted Oct 28 2011, 02:32 PM

Would this be the highest elevation yet reached by Oppy? - The rarified air of the Cape York summit? smile.gif

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 28 2011, 03:14 PM

Since Oppy is in the area underlain by the geologic unit represented at the "winterhaven" and will be spending several months here, for my own accounting purposes I've considered the arrival at "winterhaven" as post- Sol-2754 activities, when we passed the draw informally named "the valley of the shadow".

It will also be great to have time to examine that "onlap area", the contact between the Meridiani rocks and the Endeavour rim rocks (informally called "the Burns Fm" and "the Allen Fm" <G> ).

--Bill

Posted by: Phil Stooke Oct 28 2011, 04:01 PM

"Would this be the highest elevation yet reached by Oppy? - The rarified air of the Cape York summit?"

No way! It's been downhill most of the way from Victoria crater. Cape York is even lower than the plains a few hundred meters to the west - check out those contour maps just above.

Phil


Posted by: centsworth_II Oct 28 2011, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (Oersted @ Oct 28 2011, 10:32 AM) *
Would this be the highest elevation yet reached by Oppy?

I believe that the plains that Opportunity drove over to get to Cape York were on average higher than the highest point on Cape York.

edit: What he said ^

Posted by: mhoward Oct 28 2011, 04:13 PM

http://mmb.unmannedspaceflight.com/MERB2758NavcamAnaglyph.jpg. I'll update this once more images are down.

Posted by: stevesliva Oct 28 2011, 04:44 PM

The latest power numbers aren't great. Ugly trend.

QUOTE
As of Sol 2756 (Oct. 25, 2011), solar array energy production was 297 watt-hours with an increased atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.913 and a solar array dust factor of 0.510.

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/mission/status_opportunityAll.html

Posted by: fredk Oct 28 2011, 06:35 PM

QUOTE (pgrindrod @ Oct 28 2011, 05:34 AM) *
Hmm, does this help?
Thanks again, Pete! What do the numbers on the colour scale represent?

Posted by: Matt Lenda Oct 28 2011, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Oct 27 2011, 09:43 PM) *
I've really enjoyed this discussion about ways to map the important data for Oppy's next winter haven choice. I wonder about this, though. Is a simple estimate of the northward component of the slope all we need? What if the northward component is just right in a Goldilocks sense, but the eastward or westward slope component exceeds the stability specification for the rover?

In short, yes, that's all we need.

Not sure what you mean by eastward/westward components exceeding stability. The question we're seeking to answer is about power.

-m

Posted by: marsophile Oct 29 2011, 12:01 AM

QUOTE (Matt Lenda @ Oct 28 2011, 01:03 PM) *
Not sure what you mean by eastward/westward components exceeding stability. The question we're seeking to answer is about power.


I think what he means is something like a West-North-West slope of 40 degrees, as an extreme example. The northward component of that might be about 20 degrees, which might be great for power considerations, but the total slope of 40 degrees might be unsafe for the rover. CosmicRocker, sorry if I am putting words in your mouth!

Posted by: Floyd Oct 29 2011, 12:38 AM

How are you missing (as Doug said) that if you only have a "north component", you aren't pointing north. As Matt sez you are only interrested in power. Very early on (years ago) there were JPL MER press releases ploting the amount of power a rover would generate in a day with the sun arching over with any particular slope and direction toward the sun. There were pictures of green "lilly pads" (good power) and red zones (bad power). Maybe Matt can drop a power lilly pad JPEG of Cape York on us... smile.gif

Posted by: fredk Oct 29 2011, 01:01 AM

Yeah, I think "north component of slope" is vague. What Andy talked about is probably the best way to go without going overboard. His expression gives the angle between rover normal and noon midwinter sun (I've checked!). Andy: how did you get a "sol" angle of 90 - 57 = 33 degrees? I get sol = Mars tilt, 25 degrees + |rover latitude|, 2 degrees = 27 degrees.

Anyway, this is probably pretty crude, for a bunch of reasons. It treats deviations from the "sol" direction equally whether they're east-west or up-down. It pretends the Sun is stuck at solstice, when it's actually higher before and after. Etc etc. But to do better you'd need a good model to work out the solar power versus angles - that's a job for the jpl guys.

Posted by: marsophile Oct 29 2011, 05:45 AM

Yes, a deviation in the East/West direction is less harmful than a deviation in the North/South direction, because at least it tracks the path of the Sun.

Posted by: Stu Oct 29 2011, 11:27 AM

It's been a long road... getting from there to here...



smile.gif

Posted by: mhoward Oct 29 2011, 03:58 PM

Sol 2758 Pancam anaglyph


 

Posted by: Matt Lenda Oct 29 2011, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (Floyd @ Oct 28 2011, 05:38 PM) *
How are you missing (as Doug said) that if you only have a "north component", you aren't pointing north. As Matt sez you are only interrested in power. Very early on (years ago) there were JPL MER press releases ploting the amount of power a rover would generate in a day with the sun arching over with any particular slope and direction toward the sun. There were pictures of green "lilly pads" (good power) and red zones (bad power). Maybe Matt can drop a power lilly pad JPEG of Cape York on us... smile.gif

I'll see what I can do... Currently we're using a single map generated by Ron Li's group at Ohio State. It has been validated by other folks and with various methods, so it's an official tactical tool. Therefore I doubt I could share it due to propriety (or "privileged" information laws). Sad faces, everyone, sad faces...

On the other hand, independently Paolo Belutta has been using a map from the USGS for some strategic rover planning. It hasn't been validated and we don't use it in tactical ops, so I bet usage it a bit more open for the public, and it *is* useful... maybe I'll be able to swing that here. It basically tells the same story as Ron Li's map but with lower resolution.

-m

EDIT:

QUOTE (marsophile @ Oct 28 2011, 05:01 PM) *
I think what he means is something like a West-North-West slope of 40 degrees, as an extreme example. The northward component of that might be about 20 degrees, which might be great for power considerations, but the total slope of 40 degrees might be unsafe for the rover. CosmicRocker, sorry if I am putting words in your mouth!

Well, yes, but we're talking about two independent and different topics, then...

1) The story for northward slope is about power only.
2) The story for total tilt is about stability, etc.

We do keep a close eye on total tilt (and flight software is constantly monitoring it when we drive and do IDD work), but there are no slopes anywhere near us that could tilt us over or make us slide downhill.

-m

Posted by: fredk Oct 29 2011, 11:11 PM

I think the concern was more just drivability, rather than something extreme like tilting over! But Duck Bay had slopes approaching 20 degrees, if I recall correctly? According to Pete's maps there's very little in the way of slopes exceeding that here. Of course it also depends on the nature of the surface...

Even a very steep surface could work if the aspect was right and there was a way back up - recall Spirit on the edge of Homeplate. But again the north-facing slopes don't look very steep here.

Posted by: Bill Harris Oct 30 2011, 08:44 AM

And here we are. We're there.

This is a panorama of the Sol-2758 Pancam set with the elevation exaggerated 3x. Note the light-toned Cape York weathered area in the foreground, with the ridgetop on the right. The Meridiani upland is in the background with the onlap/contact area in the midground. Of interest is a draw in the right background, located north of Cape York.

--Bill

 

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 30 2011, 09:27 AM

Just posted an http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=681&view=findpost&p=179675on the route map thread. Looking to the bedrock we're on right now, I think the actual position on the map will probably be slightly to the left / west but we should wait for the navcams which are planned for tomorrowsol.

Posted by: AndyG Oct 30 2011, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 29 2011, 01:01 AM) *
Andy: how did you get a "sol" angle of 90 - 57 = 33 degrees? I get sol = Mars tilt, 25 degrees + |rover latitude|, 2 degrees = 27 degrees.


Doh! You're quite correct.

I was fiddlin' with my vector maths and googled (what I thought was) Opportunity's latitude. It turns out the result I acquired ("eight degrees south") was the centre of an orbital photo of the landing site!

I shall naturally go and kick myself. (Maybe not too hard though, since 6 degrees is still within a percent of max insolation: and the ground truth from the surface compared to the DEM will cover this sort of error and more! <coughs>)

Andy, suitably admonished

Posted by: Stu Oct 30 2011, 01:10 PM

Definitely rubble at Oppy's feet now...



By the way, if you're one of those people curious about how big Cape York is, I've put some new comparison pics on my blog:

http://roadtoendeavour.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/on-the-edge-of-cape-york-again


Posted by: fredk Oct 30 2011, 04:35 PM

If anyone's curious why we've drifted to the western "shore" of CY, I think there's a strong clue in the recent updates: They're on the lookout for veins of light-toned material, like we saw near the "shore" after our first drive onto CY.

The favourable slope region is just a day or two's drive to the E or NE, so I guess we've got the time (and power) to see what's nearby. My guess is we'll now explore more of the "coastline" and the interior of CY.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 30 2011, 04:45 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 30 2011, 10:35 AM) *
on the lookout for veins of light-toned material


And it looks like there's some bright spots on the Hazcams, so we can hope there are some around.

Posted by: Greg Hullender Oct 30 2011, 06:46 PM

Since Opportunity is just two degrees from the equator, why is anyone talking about winter? I would think aphelion would be far more significant.

--Greg

Posted by: fredk Oct 30 2011, 08:20 PM

People have been talking about aphelion - see http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7081&view=findpost&p=179386 and others near it.

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