IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Europa Subsurface Ocean
ugordan
post Nov 22 2005, 10:53 AM
Post #1


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3648
Joined: 1-October 05
From: Croatia
Member No.: 523



Regarding the very real possibility Europa harbors an ocean underneath the ice, I'm wondering whether there have been any estimates on how long such an ocean might have been sustained (I'm assuming it's still there today). Are we talking about the entire history of Europa, billions of years or a much more recent thing, only a few millions? I know Enceladus, which recently turned out to be much warmer inside than expected, could have been periodically heated, but not on very long timescales.
I'm primarily interested because of the habitability factor, obviously an ocean which freezes out every once and a while would not make for a good incubator to possible life.

Also, supposedly all tidal heating on Europa would cease now, how long would it take for the subsurface to freeze out, that is, what are the thermal conductive properties of the surface ice?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on the subject and if the question was already asked before, I apologize.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 24 2005, 03:02 PM
Post #2





Guests






QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM)
Its not so odd, at 4°C water is densest and so tend to sink, so locally where I live we do see upheavels of lake waters when the surface water that have been warmed during the summer get chilled in the autumn and so turn themselves bottom up. This is actually something good, nutrients get brought back and is a reason we have planty of fish in these arctic waters that would have very little life if it wasnt for this fact.
*


It has been suggested that this very phenomenon might cause significant fluctuations in the thickness of Europa's ice crust over long periods. That peculiar density property of liquid water means that the remaining geothermal heat coming out of Europa's interior will generate convection currents that actually tend to top off at a short distance below the bottom of the ice layer, at the level where the liquid water's temperature has dropped to 4 deg C. The layer of cooler and less dense liquid water above that will actually serve as a layer of insulation to keep the bottom of the ice layer from being warmed -- since, while liquid water is very effective at spreading heat through CONVECTION, it's lousy at CONDUCTING heat. The result will be a slow buildup of trapped heat in the convective layer, with the top of the churning convective layer rising closer and closer to the bottom of the ice layer as the water underneath gets warmer and warmer -- until the convecting water finally does get warm enough that it rises to touch the bottom of the ice layer, at which point it will cause quite dramatic melting of the lower part of that layer, with the trapped heat in the underlying water ocean escaping at that point. This cyclic phenomenon may be a second factor -- along with the gradual fluctuations in the eccentricity of Europa's orbit caused by the other moons, and thus of its tidal heating -- causing periodic changes in the thickness of the ice crust over periods of tens of millions of years.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- ugordan   Europa Subsurface Ocean   Nov 22 2005, 10:53 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   There are already a topic about an Europa orbiter ...   Nov 22 2005, 11:46 AM
- - tasp   I don't imagine I'm an expert on this, but...   Nov 22 2005, 02:47 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 22 2005, 04:47 PM)I don...   Nov 22 2005, 03:35 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   Europa ice crust is not much thicker than the Anta...   Nov 22 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 22 2005, 03:47 PM)IIRC, mic...   Nov 22 2005, 06:21 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Nov 22 2005, 06:21 PM)One a...   Nov 22 2005, 08:38 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 22 2005, 03:38 P...   Nov 22 2005, 09:13 PM
||- - helvick   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 22 2005, 10:13 PM)Out o...   Nov 22 2005, 09:26 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 22 2005, 09:13 PM)As fa...   Nov 23 2005, 07:06 AM
|- - tty   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Nov 22 2005, 10:38 P...   Nov 24 2005, 07:42 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (tty @ Nov 24 2005, 02:42 PM)That's...   Nov 24 2005, 09:01 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 24 2005, 11:01 PM)South...   Nov 24 2005, 09:51 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   The history of Europa has to be very closely tied ...   Nov 22 2005, 03:36 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Virtually all the papers on the subject have concl...   Nov 22 2005, 10:43 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thank you BruceMoomaw to quote papers which more o...   Nov 23 2005, 07:22 AM
- - RNeuhaus   Thanks to Richard and Helvick for the reference. I...   Nov 24 2005, 04:21 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Nov 23 2005, 08:21 PM)Thank...   Nov 24 2005, 04:36 AM
- - Myran   QUOTE RNeuhaus said: I am still puzzled  of t...   Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM)If there...   Nov 24 2005, 02:18 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 06:40 AM)Did you ...   Nov 24 2005, 03:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Myran @ Nov 24 2005, 11:40 AM)Its not ...   Nov 24 2005, 03:02 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 24 2005, 03:02 PM)It...   Nov 24 2005, 04:21 PM
- - Decepticon   When I visit Italy (Calabria) is the province wher...   Nov 24 2005, 09:40 PM
- - scalbers   Thanks Emily for pointing out Bob Pappalardo's...   Nov 24 2005, 10:20 PM
- - deglr6328   Though mainly intended as a refutation of Richard ...   Nov 25 2005, 12:01 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Nov 25 2005, 12:01 AM)Thou...   Nov 25 2005, 08:12 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The short version of the "cold low-density up...   Nov 27 2005, 02:32 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Two Large Lakes Discovered Under Antarctic Ice ht...   Jan 26 2006, 06:13 PM
- - Jeff7   Link was truncated. There we go I wonder if ther...   Jan 27 2006, 01:57 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Jan 27 2006, 02:57 AM)Link was...   Jan 27 2006, 06:54 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Newly Discovered Antarctic Lakes http://earthobse...   Feb 8 2006, 12:51 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Special Public Event Europa: Life Beneath the Ice...   Feb 17 2006, 04:23 PM
|- - ljk4-1   THE PITS - Deep Ocean Mining In Prospect http://...   Feb 23 2006, 03:55 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Today's Planetary Radio podcast (Europa: Life ...   Mar 6 2006, 09:38 PM
- - ljk4-1   Title: Exploring Europa's Ocean: A Challenge ...   Apr 4 2006, 08:17 PM
- - ljk4-1   ERS-2 helps detect massive rivers under Antarctica...   Apr 20 2006, 11:19 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   What is incredible is that, seemingly, it is the g...   Apr 20 2006, 08:09 PM
- - scalbers   As good a thread as any to post this new paper abo...   Jun 14 2019, 07:35 PM
- - nprev   Reminder to all that this is an older thread (ca. ...   Jun 14 2019, 08:16 PM
- - Tom Tamlyn   QUOTE Double ridge formation over shallow water si...   Apr 19 2022, 10:13 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th April 2024 - 07:22 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.