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Posted by: paxdan Nov 22 2009, 08:56 PM

Really rather interesting http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=75e_1258653471 of what a ring system would look like from various locations on the earth.

Posted by: Floyd Nov 23 2009, 01:22 AM

Wow! Visually it would be great. Probably not so great for launching satellites or riding on the ISS.

Posted by: volcanopele Nov 23 2009, 02:00 AM

Not to mention the tremendous effect a ring would have on Earth's climate. Imagine near solstice with much of the area as far south as Madrid I would think being in darkness or near darkness while in the shadow of the ring.

Posted by: nprev Nov 23 2009, 02:33 AM

We're getting there...Another several hundred years of launches & you'll be able to leapfrog your way to geosynchronous orbit off of the space junk!

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Nov 23 2009, 02:58 AM

I was thinking that too. Having long duration darker skies over the same stretch of ocean - even if the rings were mostly transparent, would do nasty things to ocean currents. Then when you start looking at things like continental prevailing winds the notion of any kind of stability of weather would be difficult to imagine. Perhaps patterns would emerge and a seasonal equilibrium might be reached over the eons, but Earth would be a far different place and the view of the sky would be minor in comparison to the other changes.

Posted by: AndyG Nov 23 2009, 11:10 AM

That's lovely.

I http://personal.strath.ac.uk/andrew.goddard/ring.html Flash tool a while ago to recreate ring views from the surface of a planet, depending on tilt, time of day, latitude, etc.

Andy

Posted by: Vultur Nov 23 2009, 12:46 PM

I wonder if a satellite ring could be used for long term (thousands of years +) climate alterations? Possibly triggering an ice age if we decided we wanted one for some reason...

Posted by: centsworth_II Nov 23 2009, 03:52 PM

At first I was confused by your tool showing opposite curvatures when viewed from the southern and northern hemispheres. Then I realized that to see an accurate southern hemisphere view, I would have to turn the monitor upside down.

Posted by: Ant103 Nov 24 2009, 10:07 AM

ENTIRE POST DELETED.

Do not put such large images in-line. Link to them, attach thumbnails.

Think about other people browsing please.

ADMIN

The next time, please delete ONLY the pictures which you think you pose a problem. It's hard for me to write such a post in english, search the good pics, etc. I HATE retype an ENTIRE post !

Posted by: AndyG Nov 24 2009, 10:13 AM

Very nice, Ant.

Have you moved the Moon to a zero-degree inclination? (Or perhaps I should ask, would a ring system be stable if the Moon was still inclined to the Earth's axis?)

Andy

Posted by: ynyralmaen Nov 24 2009, 11:44 AM

The climatic effects of a terrestrial ring system were considered in a http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=9251; peer-reviewed journal article available http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2002/2001JD001230.shtml (subscription to JGR needed).

Posted by: Ant103 Nov 24 2009, 02:48 PM

For thos who miss my "ultra-heavy-long-loading-post", just a simple link to my blog http://www.db-prods.net/blog/category/astronomie/anneaux/

Posted by: ilbasso Nov 24 2009, 06:57 PM

The question for a ring system for Earth is, "How long would it have taken someone to figure out how to put advertising on it?"

Posted by: ngunn Nov 24 2009, 09:31 PM

Mmm. What would be the correct term for ring advertising? Spokeware?

Posted by: Floyd Nov 25 2009, 12:33 AM

Sorry to have missed your post before it was removed--AndyG liked it. Unfortunately I speak no language other than English--Can you give me a hint as to what to click on in your blog?

Admin: seems a bit heavy handed to delete whole post of an old member who has contributed a fantastic number of great posts and images. Should be possible to Administer without being punitive?

Posted by: Ant103 Nov 25 2009, 03:34 PM

Thanks Andy No, actually, I leave the Moon at its actual position, because in my story (I will made the whole translate of it) the Rings are very recent. That's the reason why they can be visible from Moon.
i.e, this view taken from Apollo 8 mission :
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/as8-14-2383hr-ringed-earth-medres.jpg

This is a real simulation, with the correct illumination, inclination, shadow, etc. Celestia is a wonderful tool for this.

Link to my Celestia add-on : http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/addon-anneaux-celestia.zip

Floyd, thanks for you support Yes, it seems to be a little un-understoodable. Below, you will find the hot-spot.

A description of the Rings structure. You see that they differs totaly than the Saturn's ring system. 3 big divisions, one big ring.

http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/schemastructurel.jpg

There are numerous Guardians -moonlets- inside the Rings, to stabilize them. There are 8 and their names are taken from Inca mythology.

- Inti (1832 m), near the edge of ring α;
- Kon (530 m), inside the ring α and who keep in place the biggest part of this ring with Inti ;
- Cocha (1002 m), in the ring α ;
- Pacha (850 m), same ring, at the edge of a small ring ;
- Quilla (480 m), same ring ;
- Pachacamac (1224 m), at the division between ring α et β ;
- Zara (321 m), in the division of Europa ;
- Urcaguary (257 m), in the division of Oceania.

In this article, you will find a picture of the Rings, taken in the late evenning, showing the shadow of the Moon before the total eclipse of the 22th July '09
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/2009/07/22/lombre-de-la-lune-sur-les-anneaux/

Here, a panoramic view, by night, with the Full Moon :
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/pano-anneaux-lune-luminy-060809.jpg

An other view, at the beggining of the Winter, with the Sun occulted by the Rings (but not totally because some light can travel through it). And it's not the denser ring.
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ruedescharmes-creysse-2jan09_ringed-earth.jpg

Planetary conjonction in the Rings, at the VLT observatory (picture by Stephane Guisard) :
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/paranalplanets-240605_guisard_ringed-earth.jpg

And one other, from the VLT again, where we can see an eclipse of the Moon.
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sgu-moon_eclipse_070303-v4-s-cp8_ringed-earth.jpg

Hope that this post is not too long to load. I preview it and it seem good.

Posted by: Tesheiner Nov 25 2009, 04:13 PM

Now, THAT would be a beautiful planet!

Posted by: climber Nov 25 2009, 04:15 PM

It's not too long to load Damien, it's too long to watch.
(Extraordinaire, juste extraordinaire, merci beaucoup)

Posted by: Ant103 Nov 25 2009, 05:01 PM

Hard time to translate it (I think there are a lot of approximations, etc.).

So, the -my- story of the Rings

-------------------------------
Actually, the Rings are very young in the Earth's story because they appear at the 18th century.

This is at the August 1762 that a large part of mankind assists to brightning increase of a "star". In a few week, this "star" become as shiny as the Moon. Her moving become to be visible. William Herschel calculate that this object is very close to Earth, and also observe that it's unregular. He compute her orbital datas, but can't go to a correct result. Indeed, the object is in orbit around the Earth, but not with a classical orbit. Joseph-Louis Lagrange reveal that actually this object don't move with a sufficent speed to stay in a stable orbit and that she will lead to an impact with the Earth. But King Louis XIV want to avoid riots and he gives order to Lagrange to not unveil his calculation finality. The only official version is the birth of a new moon, who will be named the "Lunoïd" in reason of his lunar deformed aspect.

In February 1763, something unexpectable appends. The Lunoïd is fragmenting in a sort of brilliant cloud. In a few days, he occupy a large part of the celestial equator. This is only at the 18 March of the same year that the "cloud" take a whole tour around the Earth.

At the astronomers, we can't really understood what appens. We imagine that the Lunoïd pass through a place where the object are broken. But the mechanism keeps its secret.

Months after months, and the "Lunoïd Cloud" (his name) become to be more and more smooth. Dark trails appear in some place, and other, more clear.

In a few years, the structure take the aspect of a true ring system circling the whole planet, on the equator plane. This is after all how they will be called : the Rings.

The paralle will be do with the observation of Saturn who show what it seems to be a system of rings.

Very thins structures are fastly observed at the beggining of the 19the century. But no evolution are constated.

The big rings are named with the greek alphabetics, started with alphe from the outside edge, to gamma at the inside. The dark divisions are named in function of continent of the known world, with latin nomination. From the outside edge, there is Africa, America, Asia, Europa and Oceania (alphabetical order).

In April 1813 are discovered the first moonlets, the "guardians". They haven't be observed before for unknown reasons. Maybe they've been formed after?

At the end, in 1820, eight guardians are totalised. They will take in 1824 the name of the ring or division they are in. So : Alpha 1, Africa 1, Africa 2, America 1, America 2, Asia 1, Europa 1 and Oceania 1.

This is provisonial names.

The meteorologists of this time observes that the weather is globaly colder that the period before the Rings. Actually, it's not rare to see more important snowfall in winter, and frost continuing to April in the plains. This is due to the shadow of the Rings, who covers annualy a large part of south Europe and north Africa, hidden a part of the Sun and block the heating. By reaction, the summer -very hot- are the show of very intense thunderstorms. This is why the 18 July 1873, a severe tornado hit Paris and make a lot of destructions and human deads. This case stays in the memories and a lot of way fast access were build to the undergrounds who take place under the city, to evacuate the people in case of new storm.

The Big Plains of the youngs United-States are pratically deserted because of too much thunderstorms in spring and summer, and the intense cold there is started to October.

This is a little aspect of the impact that the Rings have on the Earth. But, stayed in the historic aspect of the Rings.

Edouard Roche succeed to explain and demonstrate in 1850 the rôle of the tides for the dislocation of the Lunoïd. According to him, gravitationnal force have been so strong that arrived at a certain limit (who have his name since) the satellit was broken in a myriad of parts to form a system of rings.

Writer Jules Verne make dreams for millions of childs (and adults…) with his story "Chase on The Rings" out in 1885.

In 1901, at the occasion of the entrance in 20th century, astronomers decids to named, after some debates, the Guardians in function of Inca divinities. There will be so, in order from the farthest, to the closest : Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Pacha, Mama Quilla, Pachacamac, Mama Zara and Urcaguary.

Studies on the Rings rise its apogee in the 1910 years. The instruments become to be more and more powerfull. Camille Flammarion will publish in 1911 a book entierly devoted and regulary re-eddited : The Singing of the Rings. It stays as a reference, nowadays too, especially in illustrations.

The 2 WW stopped a time the Rings study, which took a larg part of astronomical research. There is no doubt that the Earth rings and those of Saturn have a lot of point in common.

The 4th October 1957 was launched the first artificial satellit Spoutnik. This is the start of the space conquest. With 2 targets : explore the Rings and landing on the Moon.

The first target will be reached by the russians the 16th February 1967 with the launch incredibly precise for thise time of a live in Soyouz spacecraft into the Oceania division. Very dangerous game because that the particules composing the Rings can perfore the spacecraft. New success accomplished the 24th April 1967 with the launch of a Soyouz spacecraft through the America division. The event was lived as a true humiliation by American government.

And the drama appends. The 19th October 1967, a false command put a Soyouz spacecraft a few kilometer from its trajectory, and leads it directly in the beta ring. The spacecraft was perfore in a numerous places. The air outflow destabilised the module and lead him to an impact trajectory to Earth, in the South Pacific. The Ring exploration, even if it back beautiful pictures and some new information aboute her structure, was considered as too dangerous. The most important is to go to the Moon. And the 4th January 1968 landed Apollo 9 on the lunuar ground.

Robotics spacecraft are sended with succes on the Guardians ant bring some beautifull pictures of the Rings. One observation was that the particules go through the divisions to go to one ring to one other when a Guardian passage.

Few missions to remember :

- Ring Explorer II (USA), 1971, one orbiter introduce inside the Europa division ;

- Ring Explorer V (USA), 1973, one orbiter introduce inside the Asia division ;

- Koltso 6 (URSS), 1972, one orbiter introduce inside the Oceania division ;

- Pachacamaca 3 (URSS), 1978, one lander on Pachacamac ;

- Guardian Explorer Mission 1&2 (USA), 1983 landed simultanly on Mama Quilla and Mama Pacha to make optical measures of the Rings.

But the exploration of Mars lower the interest in the Rings.

The mission Cassini-Huygens (Europe - USA) in 2004 reveal a structure of the rings of Saturn identic from those of the Earth, but with a tinny detail. They are larger, and have a different composition. The Rings are exclusively rocky with sillicats for a large part, iron and some rare matals, while the rings of Saturne have a huge amount of ice.

Posted by: tty Nov 26 2009, 09:50 PM

It has actually been suggested that the Earth had a temporary ring system in the early Oligocene:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v285/n5763/abs/285309a0.html

Posted by: ngunn Nov 26 2009, 10:07 PM

Fabulous! I never knew that was suggested. How many times might that happen in the history of any planet? Right or wrong, I like it because it is imaginative and triggers interesting trains of thought.

Posted by: nprev Nov 26 2009, 10:35 PM

Planetary orbital evolution is looking more & more like a process operating just below the threshold of utter chaos, so I'm beginning to wonder just how many terrestrial worlds might have large satellites like we do. Think the odds are looking pretty unfavorable right now for Earth-Moon system clones to be widespread.

Posted by: ynyralmaen Nov 26 2009, 11:15 PM

A temporary ring system in Earth's past was also suggested in the study I linked to in post 11, above.

Posted by: Ant103 Nov 30 2009, 07:20 PM

I've made three more pics with the Rings.

One is a view from Rotterdam, where I passed 5 months as an exchange student (a wonderfull city )
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/pano-erasmusbrug-wilhemilnaplein2.jpg


The second is view of a gasoline station near my living place, at dawn, with the ring illuminate on the other side :
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/gasolinestationatdawn-ringed-earth-web.jpg

The last is a view of Earth by Rosetta :
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/osiris_color_2009-11-12t1228utc_rot_north-ringed-earth.jpg

Nb : very intersting search about a temporary ring system around earth to explain a global cold temperatures, I never known thing like this .

Posted by: Tesheiner Nov 30 2009, 09:04 PM

Beautiful!
However, in the first picture with the full moon I would expect the shadow in the ring not to be so sharp given the indirect illumination from the moon itself.

Posted by: Ant103 Dec 22 2009, 09:54 PM

Hi !

From my holidays in Dordogne (do you know?), don't forget to read this interesting article of Phil of Badastronomy (not only for my pics, but for his interesting remarks about a hypothetical rings system around Earth).

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/12/21/the-rings-of-earth/

Posted by: climber Dec 23 2009, 01:34 PM

Sure, I'm going to Creuse on friday
Once again Ant, your views of Earth ring system are very inspiring,vraiment merci.

Posted by: Ant103 Apr 3 2010, 01:08 PM

Hi,

I've made an update of the texture of the Rings for Celestia http://www.db-prods.net/blog/2010/04/02/anneaux-add-on-celestia-mise-a-jour/
You can download the zip file, there is a read-me in french and english.

And I have to say that my uchrony about a ringed earth will be the basis of my 5th Grade diploma of Design .

Posted by: scalbers Apr 3 2010, 05:37 PM

Maybe some visualizations can be made using Oligocene landscapes and life forms? Here's an example one could work with:

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2008/09/giant_killer_pigs_from_hell_2008.php

Posted by: Tom Gwilym Apr 3 2010, 05:43 PM

Great images!
I'm just glad we don't have a ring, that would really mess up my deep sky imaging from my already light polluted backyard observatory. Heh!
:-)

http://tegwilym.zenfolio.com/

Tom

Posted by: JohnVV Apr 4 2010, 03:37 AM

Ant103

you do know that most 3d cards can only use a ring map that is max size 1024x2 or 2048x2
that 8192x2 px is a bit much
from the README in "addon-anneaux-celestia-v211-mo.zip"
editing the /celestia/data/solarsys.ssc is NOT the recommend way
putting the files in the /celestia/extras folder is
and using the "modify" option in the add-on *.ssc is the correct method
see:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Celestia
and selden's page
http://www.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/addon-intro.html

Posted by: Ant103 Apr 5 2010, 08:32 PM

Okay John,

I'm having a look about that .

EDIT : it's done and *hope* that it's work fine.
http://www.db-prods.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/addon-anneaux-celestia-v2.zip

There's simply to drag & drop the folder into the add-on folder.

Thanks for the help John