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Iapetus - Black on white or white on black?
Ice and Gunk
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SFJCody
post Sep 14 2007, 07:40 AM
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Seems to be a lot of dispute on this subject... I think it's ice from the interior, but what does everyone else think?

Edit:

This world seems very complex so the question could perhaps be phrased as 'which of these options is most responsible for the Iapetan dichotomy?'
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dvandorn
post Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM
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I agree, Bill -- the distribution of dark materials just screams to me that it overlies the brighter, cleaner ice surfaces.

I also still believe I can see evidence of dark material piling up in craters, filling and/or deforming the "downwind" sides of some craters, and exhibiting some dune-like striations. I've been really busy and haven't had enough time to annotate images to point out what I think I'm seeing -- but I am certain that I'm seeing it.

To me, it all adds up to dark material covering light material, thickly in some places and more thinly in others.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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David
post Sep 16 2007, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM) *
filling and/or deforming the "downwind" sides of some craters, and exhibiting some dune-like striations.


What do you literally mean by this? Obviously, there is no wind on Iapetus (hence your "quotes") and there can likewise be no dunes. So what process do you think is in fact occurring?
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dvandorn
post Sep 17 2007, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (David @ Sep 16 2007, 12:32 PM) *
What do you literally mean by this? Obviously, there is no wind on Iapetus (hence your "quotes") and there can likewise be no dunes. So what process do you think is in fact occurring?

That is exactly why I put "downwind" in quotes. It's just a convenient way of indicating that I see apparent flow vectors in some of the dark surficial material.

Such a flow could be caused by any number of factors, and I'd be surprised if there is just a single factor controlling it. It could be anything from material creep forced along by interactions with Saturn's magnetotail to atmospheric movements caused by transient atmospheres generated by (relatively) immense amounts of sublimation or outgassing from the leading edge (as has been speculated). Heck, it could just be some odd form of impact ejecta interaction. I will point out that you see some "duning" landforms on other airless bodies, such as the Moon, which are almost definitely formed by ejecta processes. Those are just at much larger scales than you see on Iapetus.

I still think that those who dismiss the dark material as simply "the natural surface of Iapetus below the bright ice" are missing the point. This dark material is unlike any other surficial material on any other Saturnian moon -- Hyperion included. These bodies are made up primarily of ices. You'd have to postulate some mechanism that would first emplace a dark surface on Iapetus before you can start to speculate that the dark material is simply that surface with an overlay of clean ice removed from the leading edge. Having heard absolutely no such theory about the emplacement of a surface that is significantly darker (and of a significantly different composition) than we see on *any* other moon in the system, seeing this dark material having been moved along the leading edge in apparent flow patterns, and seeing a "true" bright ice surface exposed by impact from under the dark surface in many areas, I simply have to regard the possibility of the dark surface being Iapetus' "natural" surface as the least likely of all of the theories.

So, all of my observations and an application of Occam's razor leads me to the conclusion that the dark material is emplaced on top of a bright, icy surface that is far more representative of what we see on the rest of the icy moons. Hence my conclusion that we're seeing black on white and not vice-versa.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Posts in this topic
- SFJCody   Iapetus - Black on white or white on black?   Sep 14 2007, 07:40 AM
- - ngunn   I think the responses you offer are inadequate. Gl...   Sep 14 2007, 08:03 AM
- - ugordan   Where's the option "Black on White - blac...   Sep 14 2007, 08:04 AM
- - akuo   Is this a Michael Jackson song? Oh Iapetus, I wou...   Sep 14 2007, 08:15 AM
- - volcanopele   I would prefer a both option: white on black in so...   Sep 14 2007, 08:54 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Sep 14 2007, 01:54 A...   Sep 14 2007, 04:15 PM
- - Juramike   (Objects collide) Object one: "Heeeey, you ...   Sep 14 2007, 03:41 PM
- - nprev   ...of course, in the Family Guy parody of this com...   Sep 14 2007, 04:00 PM
- - Michael Capobianco   I have to choose white on black on white - black e...   Sep 14 2007, 04:33 PM
- - lyford   The only thing that I can say is that after readin...   Sep 14 2007, 05:00 PM
- - MarcF   It was not a good idea to go to vacation far from ...   Sep 15 2007, 04:26 PM
- - tasp   I would pick transparent material everywhere, keye...   Sep 15 2007, 04:59 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 15 2007, 04:59 PM) I wo...   Sep 15 2007, 08:34 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (David @ Sep 15 2007, 09:34 PM) whe...   Sep 15 2007, 09:38 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 15 2007, 09:38 PM) C...   Sep 16 2007, 03:09 AM
- - tasp   Here is another 'negative' print of Iapetu...   Sep 16 2007, 04:00 AM
- - edstrick   I get an overwhelming impression that the white an...   Sep 16 2007, 05:23 AM
- - Bill Harris   You're right, Ed, this is all very mysterious....   Sep 16 2007, 10:41 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 16 2007, 03:41 A...   Sep 17 2007, 05:22 AM
- - dvandorn   I agree, Bill -- the distribution of dark material...   Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 16 2007, 02:37 PM) ...   Sep 16 2007, 05:32 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (David @ Sep 16 2007, 12:32 PM) Wha...   Sep 17 2007, 04:48 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 17 2007, 09:48 AM) ...   Sep 17 2007, 05:56 PM
- - tasp   I was wondering about those streamlined (not quite...   Sep 16 2007, 05:38 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 16 2007, 10:38 AM) I wa...   Sep 17 2007, 05:18 AM
- - ilbasso   Seeing that old picture of Stevie Wonder made me t...   Sep 16 2007, 05:45 PM
- - tasp   I can't help but think in the initial flush of...   Sep 17 2007, 04:10 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 17 2007, 04:10 AM) I ca...   Sep 17 2007, 06:10 AM
- - tasp   Hyperion.   Sep 17 2007, 01:53 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 17 2007, 01:53 PM) Hype...   Sep 17 2007, 02:32 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (David @ Sep 17 2007, 03:32 PM) no ...   Sep 17 2007, 04:00 PM
- - nprev   Like oDoug, I too noticed the apparent "dunin...   Sep 17 2007, 04:27 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 17 2007, 11:27 AM) Lik...   Sep 17 2007, 04:59 PM
- - tasp   Here is some more 'ponding' to contemplate...   Sep 17 2007, 05:37 PM
- - tasp   And the comparison. {I suppose it would be nice...   Sep 17 2007, 05:39 PM
- - tasp   Crikey, there is something hinky going on tweenst ...   Sep 17 2007, 05:43 PM
- - tasp   We note earth's moon to have an orbit about ea...   Sep 17 2007, 06:08 PM
- - nprev   True, but Earth's Moon is thought to be an art...   Sep 17 2007, 06:12 PM
- - alan   There was a paper a couple of years ago linking Ti...   Sep 17 2007, 07:42 PM
- - edstrick   What can I say.. just look at this d__n stuff... A...   Sep 18 2007, 08:24 AM
|- - TheChemist   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 18 2007, 11:24 AM) ...   Sep 20 2007, 01:34 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (TheChemist @ Sep 20 2007, 03:34 PM...   Sep 20 2007, 01:45 PM
- - dvandorn   OK -- I understand your conclusion, here. But I s...   Sep 18 2007, 01:46 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 18 2007, 07:46 AM) ...   Sep 19 2007, 05:20 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 18 2007, 03:46 PM) ...   Sep 20 2007, 02:04 PM
- - TheChemist   Ugordan, I think that I see wide openings (holes) ...   Sep 20 2007, 02:00 PM
- - Bill Harris   RE: edstrick and the chemist, posts 40 & 42-- ...   Sep 20 2007, 04:26 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 20 2007, 04:26 P...   Sep 20 2007, 04:51 PM
|- - ustrax   Tilmann Denk's "vote" at spacEurope:...   Sep 24 2007, 04:35 PM
- - dvandorn   After seeing some of the contrast-enhanced images ...   Sep 24 2007, 04:59 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 24 2007, 09:59 AM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 24 2007, 08:03 PM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 09:24 PM
- - Bill Harris   My first, and continuing, impression of the dicho...   Sep 24 2007, 10:04 PM
- - David   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Sep 24 2007, 10:04 P...   Sep 25 2007, 02:48 AM


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