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Posted by: Greg Hullender Jun 12 2009, 09:05 PM

Since the LRO passed its Mission Rehersal today and is on track to launch on Wednesday next week, it seems like a good time to start a thread about the launch.

http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/launch.html

From the link above, there will be a pre-launch webcast on Tuesday morning.

The launch is scheduled for 3:51 PM EDT (12:51 PDT) which is 1951 GMT Wednesday June 17. [Corrected -- thanks Gsnorgathon!]

When it actually starts sending back pictures, someone should probably start a separate thread, but I think it makes sense to have the launch discussion separate from both the Development and the Cool Pictures threads.

--Greg

Posted by: tedstryk Jun 12 2009, 11:11 PM

Go LRO! Hey, it kind of rhymes!

Posted by: Floyd Jun 12 2009, 11:18 PM

Boston (EDT) is 5 hours earlier than London so 3 + 5 +12 (for 24 vs 12) = 20. So launch will be 20:51 GMT the same day, June 17.

Posted by: Sunspot Jun 13 2009, 01:28 PM

Will the delay to the latest Shuttle mission affect the launch schedule for LRO?

Posted by: Gsnorgathon Jun 13 2009, 03:37 PM

AFAICT, Floyd's mistaken. Because of Daylight Saving Time, you need to subtract 1 from the GMT offset. So the launch is scheduled for 1951 GMT.

Posted by: helvick Jun 13 2009, 03:46 PM

That is true but for those of us who live in the UK\Ireland the local time is now in BST - British Summer Time - and it will be 20:51.

Posted by: mcaplinger Jun 13 2009, 06:16 PM

Too soon to tell:

"NASA managers want to get Endeavour off as soon as possible to avoid downstream delays for upcoming space station assembly missions as the shuttle program winds down toward retirement in 2010. But the LRO mission is a high priority as well and it's not yet clear how NASA might ultimately resolve the conflict."

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts127/090613scrub/

Posted by: SpaceListener Jun 13 2009, 07:07 PM

Thanks to mcaplinger for posting the useful http link. Now I have a better idea that to plan and prepare a launch needs lots of coordinations, choreography and synchronization between different areas. Not yet any space agency is able to manage multiple launch at very short time like an airport. It will be some day in the future with the technology of spaceport.

Posted by: charborob Jun 15 2009, 05:43 PM

LRO's launch is pushed back to June 18, because the Shuttle is set to liftoff on June 17.
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/jun/HQ_09-136_STS-127_LRO_LCROSS_launch_dates.html

Posted by: kenny Jun 17 2009, 07:29 AM

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Another_leak_at_shuttle_Endeavour_fueling_NASA_999.html

The Shuttle launc has been scrubbed again, for today. Unclear on how this affects plans for LRO on 18 June.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 17 2009, 10:34 AM

It won't affect the launch of LRO. It flies tomorrow.

Posted by: Astro0 Jun 17 2009, 11:41 AM

I suspect time zones come into play here, but of course the scrub(s) do affect the launch of LRO.
The original Wednesday (US) launch was pushed back because of the first scrub.
The second scrub decision means that the Shuttle now stands aside for LRO to play through.
As noted above, first LRO launch attempt (1 second window) is now Thursday, June 18, at 5:12 p.m. US-EDT or 9:12pm GMT (UTC)
OR for the Canberra DSN (supporting the post launch acquisition) it will be 7.12am on Friday 19th June.
Not tomorrow that's for certain.

Let's just hope that the weather doesn't come into the game.

Posted by: kenny Jun 17 2009, 05:02 PM

LRO Launch times for Thurs 18th. Also in the event of further postponement, Fri 19th and Sat 20th - 3 times per day.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2009/09-60AR.html

Posted by: kenny Jun 17 2009, 07:23 PM

Forget the previous, this is better... we're looking at Thurs eve 5.12 pm EDT, 00:12am Friday UK summer time

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av020/status.html

Posted by: PhilCo126 Jun 17 2009, 07:59 PM

It looks like NASA TV coverage of the launch will begin at 2 p.m. June 18.

Posted by: Hungry4info Jun 17 2009, 11:55 PM

Heard on NASA TV that during the impact of LCROSS and it's lil' projectile, there will be live feed from the LCROSS mission control room, allowing us to see what's going on in real time. Anyone know where the link to that might be?

Posted by: mcaplinger Jun 18 2009, 03:10 AM

You realize that the LCROSS impact doesn't happen until October, right?

Posted by: SpaceListener Jun 18 2009, 03:56 AM

The rocket Centaur along with the shepherding space LCROSS will be traveling many elongated loops around Earth and Moon (going from South to North of Moon at 70 degree angle inclination) until the impact (both in a interval of 4 minutes, First Centaur and later LCROSS) at approximately October 8, 2009.

http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/index.htm

Posted by: djellison Jun 18 2009, 07:05 AM

5.12pm Eastern is 10.12pm UK time. I'm not sure where you're getting 00:!2 frmo.

Posted by: kenny Jun 18 2009, 08:49 AM

You're right, I was confusing my a.m's and p.m's. The current schedule still seems to be 5.12pm Thurs EDT, 10:12pm UK summer time. Apologies.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 05:52 PM

This is very important, thanks for this! LRO is actually going to travel just four days, while it will take a lot more time for LCROSS to reach the lunar surface.

Posted by: MahFL Jun 18 2009, 06:12 PM

An MCS is progressing towards the cape, thunderstorms might interfere with the launch.

http://radblast-mi.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/radar/WUNIDS_map?station=MLB&brand=wui&num=6&delay=15&type=NCR&frame=0&scale=1.000&noclutter=0&t=1245348718&lat=0&lon=0&label=you&showstorms=0&map.x=400&map.y=240&centerx=400&centery=240&transx=0&transy=0&showlabels=1&severe=0&rainsnow=0&lightning=0&smooth=1

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 18 2009, 06:27 PM

It will take a while for LCROSS to arrive, but we do get some calibration images during the swingby in only a few days.

Phil

Posted by: Hungry4info Jun 18 2009, 07:12 PM

Haha, .... uh no. I didn't know that until rather late last night. I assumed that the two would go to the moon, and LCROSS would impact it shortly after LRO goes into oribt. But it makes sense now, about LCROSS having to spend some time to get the orbit right (and thus angle of impact).

I haven't followed the LCROSS mission... *blush*

Posted by: BrianJ Jun 18 2009, 07:57 PM

Nominal impact date for a launch today (18th) is 9th Oct 11:30:00 UTC

One of the guys at ARC was kind enough to send me a snippet of STK pos/vel/attitude data for the LCROSS-Centaur lunar flyby trajectory for the 21st June launch opportunity. Here's a couple of Celestia renderings of the instrument calibration pointing sequence(about 1hr after closest approach). First clip is external view, second clip is instrument line-of-sight, both at 20x time accel.

External view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwDFdunJCQ

Instrument line-of-sight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2BXCgCqvj8

Good luck LRO and LCROSS! (and keep that rain away for the next 3hrs !)

Regards,
Brian

Posted by: Paolo Jun 18 2009, 08:07 PM

cool! Thank you!

Posted by: brellis Jun 18 2009, 08:40 PM

Read somewhere that Hubble will point towards the impact as well. Great photo opportunity!

And, I'm glad LRO will settle the silly conspiracy theories on the Apollo landings.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 08:45 PM

I hope so, but I think it won't. The hardcore conspiracists will now say that the images are Photoshopped. Even if you take them to the lunar surface, they will still say it's fake: They will claim that the footprints were taken later when the technology was better.

Posted by: OWW Jun 18 2009, 09:09 PM

No, they won't believe you've actually taken them to the moon and show you this as proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uya2CrgS1Bw

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 18 2009, 09:15 PM

One of the deniers is busy flooding the Google Lunar X Prize forum with nonsense. (Hi, Sock!) There the obvious retort is - join a team and go see for yourself. But it's a waste of time. Not because they can't be convinced - because they know it's a lie from day one. The folk at the top don't believe it. They have other agendas.

Phil

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 09:17 PM

... which are MAKING MONEY!

LRO launch isn't certain... We hope that the skies will clear, but it's not sure...

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 18 2009, 09:18 PM

Looking good now for 5:32. The LROC site says they've launched - they didn't update the launch time!

Phil

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 09:24 PM

Launch team polled. LRO is go for launch!

Proceeding with count!

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 18 2009, 09:37 PM

I've seen rocket cams before, but never on a NASA-TV live broadcast of a launch. Thrilling.

TTT

Posted by: Tom Tamlyn Jun 18 2009, 09:38 PM

And now we've had shot of the payload under the fairing. Amazing. Think of the rocket engineers who went through their careers without ever seeing a shot like that.

TTT

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 09:49 PM

MECO! Main engine cutoff!

Posted by: Juramike Jun 18 2009, 09:50 PM

That rocket cam shot rising through the clouds was awesome!

Posted by: Greg Hullender Jun 18 2009, 09:56 PM

I'm actually in Florida, so I went out on the balcony to look, but I'm afraid we're just a bit too far away to see it from here. Maybe if it had been a night launch. Still, it was cool to follow it online.

--Greg

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 10:20 PM

LRO just successfully separated from the rocket! Congratulations all!

Posted by: MahFL Jun 18 2009, 10:21 PM

Separation .
I too tried to see it but it launched due east. I can see the shuttle when it goes NE but East is no good.

Posted by: Greg Hullender Jun 18 2009, 10:21 PM

Looks good. Next significant news will be Lunar Orbit insertion on Tuesday morning at 5:43 a.m. EDT (0943 GMT).

From Spaceflight Now "T+plus 44 minutes, 45 seconds. SPACECRAFT SEPARATION! The Centaur upper stage has deployed the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter on its direct trajectory for the Moon. "

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av020/status.html

--Greg

Posted by: Sunspot Jun 18 2009, 10:25 PM

It seems so weird to read that LRO will reach its destination Tuesday morning,, we usually have many months or even years to wait for that.

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 18 2009, 10:26 PM

Well... the same applies for LCROSS (just kidding)

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 19 2009, 12:53 AM

Naw... I can remember watching Ranger IX's launch, and then watching the pictures from its video cameras come streaming in "live from the Moon" three days later. And, of course, I'm used to this kind of timing from all those Apollo flights.

I suppose that when you are limited to relatively small boosters and need to get as much mass out to the Moon as you can for the least number of ergs expended, it makes sense to run orbits out farther and farther and to arrive at the Moon months after launch. (That does have its own costs, of course, not least of which is the repeated passage of your probe through the most energetic portions of Earth's Van Allen belts.) But if you have a heavy-lift booster, it can make sense to just get out there as fast as you reasonably can.

I also imagine that LCROSS needs a fairly fast approach to create the big, looping orbits it needs to achieve its desired impact geometry. All told, I imagine this mission simply requires the faster, more direct translunar trajectory.

I'm glad she's off, though, and I'm glad we'll be seeing high-res images of old familiar places (plus new, exciting places) very soon. At least partially as an accident of my birthdate, I've become quite fascinated with lunar geology -- I'm really looking forward to some of the really kewl things we're about to see!



-the other Doug

Posted by: ilbasso Jun 19 2009, 03:08 AM

I was playing around with the spreadsheet of the LRO priority targets. I found it interesting to do a sort on the priorities...25 Priority 1 targets, 1800+ Priority 2 targets, and 4400+ Priority 3 targets! I really appreciated the detail in the spreadsheet regarding why certain targets were identified as highest priority. It wasn't necessarily just to do with possible ice or potential for a lunar outpost, but many of the Priority 1 targets were suspected either to be the youngest or the oldest areas on the surface of the Moon.

Posted by: Juramike Jun 19 2009, 06:32 PM

Launch video (lotsa rocketcam with voiceover + sound from ground) on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-5t4de6jjI&feature=related

Posted by: SpaceListener Jun 19 2009, 07:45 PM

About the speed trayectory of LRO/LCROSS from Earth toward Moon, I am still trying to learn and understand its evolution speed. However, I know that the minimum velocity required to escape from Earth gravity is around 11.6 kp/s and I have noticed thru the other source of information that the spacecraft was reducing its speed from 5 kp/s at about 35,000 km from Earth, 4kp/s even further from Earth. Then I tought that the LRO/LCROSS didn't reach the 11.6 kp/s to escape from Earth gravity in its way toward to Moon but at lower speed...

Then I realized the spacecraft speed will be reducing to the minimum speed until the Selene gravity captures it.

Is that my tought correct? Thanks for any comments.

Posted by: Hungry4info Jun 19 2009, 08:01 PM

Mostly, but when the spacecraft gets closer to Selene, it's gravity will cause LCROSS and LRO to accelerate (as they're then falling toward Selene).

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 20 2009, 07:28 AM

According to NASA-Twitter, the midcourse correction burn was completed successfully. Also they have switched on the Russian instrument - LEND.

Posted by: SpaceListener Jun 20 2009, 04:22 PM

Thanks, so, the conclusion is that the spacecraft LRO/LCROSS didn't reach the speed of Earth's escape gravity since its speed is already decreasing on its way toward to the Moon.

When the spacecraft will start to pick up the speed? I tought it would be when the spacecraft is already traveled 5/6 of Earth-Moon distance (320,000 km)?

Posted by: ugordan Jun 20 2009, 06:11 PM

The highest speed it had was just when the Centaur shut down after lunar injection. It was then at 300 km altitude and at that point the escape velocity would be slightly lower than the quoted one of 11.2 km/s (which assumes you start from the ground). To reach moon you need something close to that, Apollo lunar flights for example ended burns at roughly the same altitude and at that time were going at 10.8 km/s and I assume that's roughly the same velocity LRO/LCROSS had.

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jun 20 2009, 07:51 PM

Awesome indeed.

Have to admit I am getting all Moonie and nostalgic for the 60's unmanned missions that preceeded APOLLO.
And APOLLO.

LRO/LCROSS are going to be very cool missions...

NASA LRO Webcast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruN1iqeorw&feature=PlayList&p=17397AE2220D4292&index=7

LRO data will be made available to Google Moon. LCROSS October impact imaging data will be supplied live - like Ranger 9
in 1965.

GO LRO for LOI!

GO LCROSS... long wait til October...

Craig

Posted by: zeBeamer Jun 20 2009, 08:59 PM

Hello guys,
thought I would register now that LRO has launched successfully

Another cool video is on ULA's website (http://www.ulalaunch.com/)
direct link: http://www.ulalaunch.com/launch/LRO/LROLCROSS_LaunchHighlights.wmv

I was lucky enough to be invited to the launch, and see it!
One of the pictures I took :

By the way, LRO has a blog with many updates about how it's doing and what's next:
http://lroupdate.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 20 2009, 09:20 PM

Great!

I'm a little worried about the power drop. It's insignificant, but anyway..

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 20 2009, 10:14 PM

The one thing I'm looking forward to more than anything else? Matching LROC images to the Soviet era map of the Lunokhod 1 route, to locate the old rover and its landing stage.

Phil

Posted by: Hungry4info Jun 20 2009, 10:41 PM

To what precision are these landing sites known? Will it be a problem for LRO?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 20 2009, 10:59 PM

We don't know exactly where it is - that's why i'm looking forward to it. There is no doubt about where the Apollos and most Surveyors are, but the Lunas are not precisely located. Luna 9 and 13 will be very hard to find, with tens of images needed to cover the uncertainty ellipses. And if they are imaged, they may not be very easy to identify among the rocks. But for Lunokhod 1, there is a candidate site about 5 km from the tracking position which might be it. Only one or a few images would be needed to search for it.

Phil

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 20 2009, 11:03 PM

Just to compare - we still haven't located Mars Polar Lander, Beagle 2, Mars 6 and Mars 3. I expect we'll be searching Luna 9, 13 for years.

Posted by: zeBeamer Jun 21 2009, 12:12 AM

the positions of Luna 17 and 21 (or rather, their Lunokhod rovers) are fairly well known, from Lunar Laser Ranging (mostly used to monitor the position of the Apollo retro-reflectors). I think Luna 21 is the least constrained of the two.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 21 2009, 12:46 AM

No, it's the other way round, though some web sources have it wrong. Lunokhod 1 has not been detected with the laser since early in the mission, in 1970. Lunokhod 2 gives a weak reflection but can be used today. A search for Lunokhod 1 is being undertaken through JPL but the full lat-long-range space has not been sampled and could take quite a while, even assuming the reflector is usable. There is at least a 5 km uncertainty on Lunokhod 1's location, but as I said there is a candidate location (made by matching the Lunokhod 1 route map to the best images of the site, which are not very good). I hope the candidate position is correct, because I suggested it, but wherever it is it will be good to have it at last.

Phil

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jun 21 2009, 02:08 AM

LCROSS - Streaming Video Coverage of the Lunar Swingby

LCROSS lunar swingby video stream coverage will begin approximately 5:20 a.m. PDT on Tuesday, June 23, 2009.

The LCROSS instrumentation will send back data to Earth for approximately one hour. The first 30 minutes will contain a view of the lunar surface from an altitude of approximately 9,000 km. The video feed is set to display one frame per second. During the latter 30 minutes, the spacecraft will perform multiple scans of the moon's horizon to calibrate its sensors. During this latter half hour, the video image will update only occasionally. The 3D visualization stream will show the spacecraft position and attitude throughout the swingby.

Camera Feeds
The live streaming coverage of the lunar swingby will consist of two separate video streams:
Live video feed from the spacecraft's visible light camera at one frame per second. Real-time, telemetry-based animation of the lunar swingby.


http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/lunarswingby/index.html

Perhaps this should really go to a new thread for mission. We are certainly past launch.

Craig

Posted by: belleraphon1 Jun 21 2009, 02:13 AM

Never mind... I see this is the thread for launch through ORBIT..

Old brain needs a tweak!!!

I too am looking forward to whatever old lunar landers and rovers the LRO can pick out.

Craig

Posted by: Greg Hullender Jun 21 2009, 02:42 AM

Yep. ;-) The idea was to separate the discussion about launch and cruise from the discussion about the pictures. I thought that made sense, since a) the pre-launch thread had gotten to be pretty long and b) the cruise is so short.

But as soon as someone has actual moon pictures to play with, he or she should create a "Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission" thread (or something like that). At least, that was MY thinking. :-)

--Greg

Posted by: SpaceListener Jun 21 2009, 08:57 AM

http://quest.nasa.gov/challenges/lcross3/prelim/karpf.pdf
LCROSS will perform 3 LGALRO, each lasts 38 days, before impacting to the Moon

Posted by: djellison Jun 21 2009, 11:09 AM

http://lroupdate.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 21 2009, 11:50 AM

The real need for a new thread is a dedicated LCROSS thread, I'd say. Pics in only a few days! Sounds like LROC pics will have to wait until about July 2nd.

Phil

Posted by: Hungry4info Jun 21 2009, 04:34 PM

As the first part of the question was answered, I'll go for the 2nd one.

LRO/LCROSS will begin to accelerate once they are within the moon's gravitational http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere, which has a radius of about 60,000 km.

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 21 2009, 05:24 PM

Zvezdichko already created one -- http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6070 -- a couple of days ago. Seems an appropriate place for LROC images, though a separate LCROSS topic may indeed be called for.

-the other Doug

Posted by: Zvezdichko Jun 21 2009, 09:19 PM

NASA-Twitter reports that all systems perform wonderfully, which is great.

Posted by: Stu Jun 22 2009, 10:41 AM

If you haven't taken a look yet, check out the LROC website. It's a great example of How A Mission Website Should Be Done. Clear, good links, looks great, the Outreach materials section is a goldmine, too :-)

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/index.html

CAn't wait for the first images to appear in the gallery! :-)

Posted by: MahFL Jun 22 2009, 11:16 AM

Yes but some pages are clearly out of date....

"LROC images are not currently available, because the orbiter is still waiting for launch.
Once launched, the orbiter will began taking amazing pictures of the moon. "

Also why do we still need a "Launch Preview".

/padantic mode off

Posted by: Stu Jun 22 2009, 11:34 AM

Well, that's half right... images aren't going to be available if they haven't been taken yet...

BTW, interesting snippet of info on collectSPACE re the resolving power of the camera:

According to Dr. Robinson in response to a question collectSPACE posed to him this afternoon, "The angular resolution [of the LROC] will be about 50 cm/pixel (dependent on the final orbit of course). We will definitely be able to spot the LM descent stages and Rovers."

Posted by: djellison Jun 23 2009, 09:28 AM

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6071&st=0#entry142273 for discussion during LOI / LCROSS flyby.

Posted by: Greg Hullender Jun 23 2009, 02:46 PM

Looks like we're safely in orbit now. Even though I started this thread, I don't see how to close it. Can a moderator do that for me?

Thanks!

--Greg