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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ MSL _ MSL "scarecrow" mobility model

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 20 2007, 04:17 PM

I went to JPL yesterday to see them put the mobility model for MSL through its paces. It is HUGE!

Lots of pictures and video posted at http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001010/

I have the pictures (but not the video) at twice the resolution if anyone needs them for artistic purposes.

--Emily

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 20 2007, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jun 20 2007, 12:17 PM) *
Lots of pictures and video posted at http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001010/


Yeow! Watch your toes!


Posted by: Ian R Jun 20 2007, 04:35 PM

Holy moly - it's a MONSTER! blink.gif

Excellent report Emily (and great new portrait, if I may say so cool.gif ).

The Pluto rover looks interesting too - are there any tentative plans to send smaller vehicles of this sort to Mars en masse? They would be great for scouting missions; looking for suitable locations for a MSL class rover to explore in more detail.

Ian.

Posted by: djellison Jun 20 2007, 04:38 PM

LOVE the way they got JPL _|qL (that's supposed to be jpl backwards ) into the wheel tread smile.gif

I think expletives were justified and frankly - required.

Doug

Posted by: Ian R Jun 20 2007, 04:43 PM

Are we allowed to say 'smeg' on this board, Doug? laugh.gif

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 20 2007, 04:47 PM

I think I have some new suggestions for your prospective UMSF title, Emily biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sunspot Jun 20 2007, 04:58 PM

Those Wheels !!!!! ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

Would any of the dunes encountered by Opportunity during the drive to Victoria been a problem for MSL?

Posted by: Stu Jun 20 2007, 06:24 PM

Couple of 3Ds, hope you don't mind Emily...





And I agree, that's a great new pic of you up at TPS, if you don't mind me saying so. smile.gif

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Jun 20 2007, 07:33 PM

Nice to get a glimpse of the "new Mars Yard." I see they are set up to deal with every eventuality, including MSL encountering a steel shed.

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 20 2007, 07:41 PM

And if one is in the sweet spot of Mars' diurnal temperature cycle, one can even wear sandals. I have another question: was the toenail polish space qualified for martian surface operations or is it an engineering model, too? cool.gif

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 20 2007, 07:57 PM

Oh, I imagine the nail polish would work fine on Mars. The toes themselves, of course, would puff up and start bleeding from underneath the nails... but the polish would survive just fine.

biggrin.gif

-the other Doug

Posted by: Stu Jun 20 2007, 08:31 PM

Of course, different nails could be painted with different coloured nail polishes and then used as colour calibration references... make a change from that *&&^%^%&^&*&&^^ sundial!!!! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: climber Jun 20 2007, 08:50 PM

TPS, please do NOT send a microphone with this one, she's too noisy

wheel.gif wheel.gif
wheel.gif wheel.gif

trying to match wheels size but the board doesn't allow enough emoticons biggrin.gif

Posted by: djellison Jun 20 2007, 08:58 PM

I remember watching videos of little FIDO - that's quite noisy as well. FIDO was used for a lot of field tests to learn how to 'do' MER style ops - the little PLuto rover - just out the door to the right - is what I think FIDO has now turned into.
http://planetary.org/image/marsyard_20070619_img_1835.jpg

The varnish would have to go through thermal-vac testing along with the toes...and that's probably not recommended.


Doug

Posted by: lyford Jun 20 2007, 10:27 PM

QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Jun 20 2007, 09:21 AM) *


From the way the shadows in the thumbnail look, I thought Emily got to ride on the MSL and dangle her feet overboard biggrin.gif Not that JPL is getting into the hay ride business anytime soon.

And full chutzpah points for those "custom treads." If only it were flight hardware....

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 20 2007, 10:49 PM

Wouldn't be much of a ride -- she may be big but she's slow!

Wonder whether the toenail polish would look different under martian lighting? Perhaps not, they're not far off from the color of the sky -- a bit bolder tho smile.gif

--Emily

Posted by: AlexBlackwell Jun 20 2007, 10:55 PM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jun 20 2007, 12:49 PM) *
Wonder whether the toenail polish would look different under martian lighting? Perhaps not, they're not far off from the color of the sky -- a bit bolder tho smile.gif

Maybe Don Davis can update his http://www.donaldedavis.com/PARTS/MARSCLRS.html with your bipod shot. cool.gif

Posted by: nprev Jun 21 2007, 12:14 AM

Man, MSL is indeed a big beast... good thing there are no critters on Mars after all, because they'd run like hell in any case as soon as they saw it! biggrin.gif Thanks for the sneak peek, Emily! smile.gif

Posted by: dvandorn Jun 21 2007, 01:10 AM

Well, think of it this way -- a MER is about the size of a golf cart. MSL will be about the size of a Jeep. No wonder they want to find a way to just gently drop the thing onto its wheels and not have to worry about a platform big enough for it to roll off of...

-the other Doug

Posted by: Chmee Jun 21 2007, 01:57 AM

QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 20 2007, 09:10 PM) *
Well, think of it this way -- a MER is about the size of a golf cart. MSL will be about the size of a Jeep. No wonder they want to find a way to just gently drop the thing onto its wheels and not have to worry about a platform big enough for it to roll off of...

-the other Doug


So if they keep scaling up like that with each rover program, when do they start landing this on Mars smile.gif


Posted by: Jeff7 Jun 21 2007, 02:10 AM

And of course, after that scale up, the landing date would have to be on a SUNDAY!!!


Good pictures, thank you. That sure is a big critter. Send it to the Columbia Hills with a winch, in case any more of Sprit's wheels seize up.

Posted by: nprev Jun 21 2007, 02:28 AM

I'm fixin' to put on my MSL baseball cap & sleeveless spacesuit...gotta fill the suit tank with Bud first, though <grunt><clink>... tongue.gif

Posted by: elakdawalla Jun 21 2007, 03:18 AM

Sunday, SUNDAY, SUNDAY! We're gonna turn the entire valley floor of Melas Chasma into a 10-foot deep MUUUD PIT!

--Emily

Posted by: mchan Jun 21 2007, 04:15 AM

QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 20 2007, 05:14 PM) *
Man, MSL is indeed a big beast... good thing there are no critters on Mars after all, because they'd run like hell in any case as soon as they saw it! biggrin.gif

As I noted in another thread, if Marvin were around, he'd develop sudden urinary incontinence syndrome when he sees MSL come rolling over the top of a dune, the camera mast head swinging around, the laser spectrometer firing. Speeded up of course, not at glacial speed.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Jun 21 2007, 05:01 AM

The first picture to grab my attention, and probably the attention of many people, was the top one. The door begins to open, and there are the wheels of the beast. ohmy.gif I think pictures depicting its rock climbing abilities were a close second. All of the pictures were amazing.

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jun 20 2007, 10:18 PM) *
Sunday, SUNDAY, SUNDAY! We're gonna turn the entire valley floor of Melas Chasma into a 10-foot deep MUUUD PIT!
I was kind of thinking along those lines, but I'm really dreaming about the trenches they should be able to dig. wink.gif

Posted by: punkboi Jun 21 2007, 06:20 AM

I saw the "Scarecrow" at JPL's Open House on May 19... I'd post up the pictures I took of it, but my digicam is in my room upstairs. A mock-up of the rover's Multi-Mission RTG was also on display.

Not to state the obvious, but the Skycrane system is gonna have to produce a (bleep)-load of thrust to get that behemeth on the ground safely... tongue.gif

Posted by: Geographer Jun 21 2007, 10:04 AM

How many meters per day will the MSL be able to travel without doing any science?

And for all the rovers, are the motors in the wheel hubs?

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 21 2007, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (punkboi @ Jun 21 2007, 02:20 AM) *
...the Skycrane system is gonna have to produce a (bleep)-load of thrust...

wink.gif Is this a sneaky way to call the descent module "Skycrane"?
The skycrane maneuver does not produce thrust. It uses the
thrust produced by the descent module.

Posted by: punkboi Jun 21 2007, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Jun 21 2007, 07:26 AM) *
wink.gif Is this a sneaky way to call the descent module "Skycrane"?
The skycrane maneuver does not produce thrust. It uses the
thrust produced by the descent module.


REVISED: Not to state the obvious, but the Skycrane DESCENT MODULE is gonna have to produce a (bleep)-load of thrust to get that behemeth on the ground safely...

There you go. biggrin.gif

Posted by: centsworth_II Jun 21 2007, 06:33 PM

QUOTE (punkboi @ Jun 21 2007, 01:53 PM) *
...Skycrane DESCENT MODULE...

That should be MSL Descent Module. Skycrane is the name of
a maneuver, not a piece of equipment. I hate to be a pill about
this, but I see this type of error being made by the thousands in
the general press when the time comes. Are we going to ignore
it or will we gripe about "inaccuracies in the press"? If it's the latter,
we better get our act cleaned up first.

When I first brought this up, I suggested that NASA/JPL take the
path of least resistace -- and best PR -- and actually call the
decent module the "Skycrane". I was told this was not an option.

(To the management: in a thread that has discussed the flightworthiness
of toenail polish, I don't think this should be deleted as being OT. smile.gif )

Posted by: nprev Jun 21 2007, 11:09 PM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jun 20 2007, 08:18 PM) *
Sunday, SUNDAY, SUNDAY! We're gonna turn the entire valley floor of Melas Chasma into a 10-foot deep MUUUD PIT!

--Emily


Man, I GOT to see that, but i hear that admission is $60 billion at the door, or $300 billion for groups of six. Gotta bust open the swear jar, and find five other foul-mouthed friends willing to do likewise... ph34r.gif

Posted by: Jim from NSF.com Jun 22 2007, 02:29 AM

QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 20 2007, 09:10 PM) *
Well, think of it this way -- a MER is about the size of a golf cart. MSL will be about the size of a Jeep. No wonder they want to find a way to just gently drop the thing onto its wheels and not have to worry about a platform big enough for it to roll off of...

-the other Doug


Actually it is the size of a Mini Cooper and JPL has the premission to use it for comparisons

Posted by: MarsEngineer Jun 22 2007, 05:44 AM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Jun 20 2007, 09:17 AM) *
I went to JPL yesterday to see them put the mobility model for MSL through its paces. It is HUGE!

--Emily


Hi Emily,

I am sorry I missed you yesterday.

Your reaction is the same reaction we all have when we first see scarecrow. It is big. But it is not just big ... it has a presence .. it is there .. you can almost see it alone on Mars scratching its metalic way over boulders and vanquishing ventifacts. Little Sojourner and even MER did not project itself into our space like MSL does.

Ironically when engineers "see" objects via textual requirements (e.g. mass & volume of science instruments, rover mass estimates) or even schematics and drawings we miss the reality of what we are attempting. I suspect that those who have seen it for the first time without hearing much about it in advance will wonder about the audacity of it all. Is this a sign of our arrogence? One could easily conclude that it is. But to the engineers, ironically it is not. To our eyes it is all numeric. Margined mass estimates, volumes, structural loads, power profiles ... if the units are mm or m, mg or kg, the problems are the same. It is only when we see it with our own eyes and through the fresh eyes of others does the reality set in.

But only for a moment. There are dynamics simulations, functional design documents, modal analyses, design reviews, schematics, procurements, test plans, test equipment & tests to complete. There is but a moment for awe.

-Rob Manning

PS I first got wacked by the reality of Mars exploration way back on Mars Pathfinder in th fall of 1994 when a gaggle of engineers, scientists and teachers drove up to the "scablands" of eastern Washington State (my home state) to visit the terrestial "analog" to Pathfinder's eventual landing site called Ares Vallis (massive catastrophic water outflow - Mars floods about 3x10^9 years ago and Earth's about 13,000 years ago). We swung by Spokane and visited a Jr HS on a Thur night in the pouring rain to talk to the general public figuring there might be some who would be interested in Mars. We expected maybe a few dozen folks - maybe some high school science teachers. It looked as if a thousand people showed up. Suddenly I no longer felt I was just another engineer working on a little project that nobody cared about. My job became far more intense after that, but also far more exciting.

Posted by: punkboi Aug 31 2007, 04:02 PM

I'm more than 3 months late, but here's a pic I took of the MSL model at the JPL Open House... I took more, but I'll just post this one. tongue.gif

 

Posted by: nprev Aug 31 2007, 05:38 PM

As Rob said, it definitely has presence! blink.gif

Not that I'm big into Futurama references or anything, but "The Crushinator" just seems perfect as a nickname, here...

BTW, does anybody know what sort of launch vehicle has been selected for MSL? This beast seems to require more than a Delta II... huh.gif

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