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Wreckage Of Beagle 2 Found?
imran
post Dec 20 2005, 01:07 AM
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Wreckage of Beagle found scattered in Mars crater

Talk about being unlucky assuming this is confirmed.
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 23 2005, 06:46 AM
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Oh, gadfry, Messenger, are you still peddling that stuff about major violations of the laws of gravity elsewhere in the Solar System? Especially when the only thing we need to explain these crashes is the major fluctuation in Mars' air density already known to exist?

And Mars 3, don't forget, actually made it to the surface -- it just broke down, for unknown reasons, 90 seconds later. V.S. Perminov, who was associated with the Soviet Mars program, writes that he suspects a static discharge caused by the major planetwide dust storm in which Mars 3 landed as a possible cause (and, in fact, static discharge was also listed as one of the multitude of possible causes for the Deep Space 2 failures).

He also provides -- for the first time, I think -- an explanation for the Mars 2 crash: because of the Soviets' lack of faith in the quality of their own deep-space radio tracking, the craft was equipped with its own Autonav system that sighted on Mars several days before encounter and made a final automatic course correction to put the lander into the right entry corridor. But because the Soviets had slightly incorrrect data on Mars' true ephemeris (which, ironically, was corrected only a year later during the US/Soviet exchange of planetary probe information), the lander entered at too steep an angle and therefore crashed (shades of Mars Climate Orbiter!) He doesn't speculate on the cause of the Mars 6 failure -- although, given all those crumbling transistors on the 1973 Mars probes, it may simply have failed to fire its last-second retrorocket.
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ljk4-1
post Dec 23 2005, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 23 2005, 01:46 AM)
And Mars 3, don't forget, actually made it to the surface -- it just broke down, for unknown reasons, 90 seconds later.  V.S. Perminov, who was associated with the Soviet Mars program, writes that he suspects a static discharge caused by the major planetwide dust storm in which Mars 3 landed as a possible cause (and, in fact, static discharge was also listed as one of the multitude of possible causes for the Deep Space 2 failures). 
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I remember reading that Mars 3 may have kept working just fine on the surface - it was the orbiter that somehow lost the link with the lander. Any details on this?

I wonder if it stored any data onboard? Would it still be readable if so? Yes, I realize I am talking about a 1971 Soviet computer.


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"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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RNeuhaus
post Dec 23 2005, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Dec 23 2005, 10:26 AM)
I remember reading that Mars 3 may have kept working just fine on the surface - it was the orbiter that somehow lost the link with the lander.  Any details on this?

I wonder if it stored any data onboard?  Would it still be readable if so?  Yes, I realize I am talking about a 1971 Soviet computer.
*

Enclosed is the data from astronautix web page about Mars 3 correspondient to Soviet unmmaned space M-71 :May 1971 Mars 3 Program: Mars. Launch Site: Baikonur . Launch Vehicle: Proton 8K82K / 11S824. Mass: 4,643 kg. Perigee: 1,528 km. Apogee: 214,500 km. Inclination: 60.0 deg.:
The descent module (COSPAR 1971-049F) was released at 09:14 GMT on 2 December 1971 about 4.5 hours before reaching Mars. Through aerodynamic braking, parachutes, and retro-rockets, the lander achieved a soft landing at 45 S, 158 W and began operations. However, after 20 sec the instruments stopped working for unknown reasons. Meanwhile, the orbiter engine performed a burn to put the spacecraft into a long 11-day period orbit about Mars with an inclination thought to be similar to that of Mars 2 (48.9 degrees). Data was sent back for many months.


Cherry Christmas

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Posts in this topic
- imran   Wreckage Of Beagle 2 Found?   Dec 20 2005, 01:07 AM
- - ermar   Unlucky? Seems pretty lucky for Pilinger if it ch...   Dec 20 2005, 01:40 AM
- - lyford   Dr. Pillinger, Dec, 2003 QUOTE Professor Colin Pil...   Dec 20 2005, 02:04 AM
- - jamescanvin   I didn't see one on the page linked by imram b...   Dec 20 2005, 03:00 AM
|- - odave   Yep, shades of the false ID of MPL's remains e...   Dec 20 2005, 03:31 AM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Dec 20 2005, 03:00 AM)I ...   Dec 20 2005, 05:15 AM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 20 2005, 05:15 AM)If identi...   Dec 20 2005, 08:33 AM
||- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (dilo @ Dec 20 2005, 04:15 PM)The BBC i...   Dec 20 2005, 10:38 AM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Dec 19 2005, 08:00 PM)I ...   Dec 20 2005, 08:31 PM
- - deglr6328   Ohh yes! If I squint hard enough I can just ma...   Dec 20 2005, 07:04 AM
- - djellison   Just had a thought - if the impact into the side o...   Dec 20 2005, 09:38 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Hmmmm... So there was no error or malfunction of ...   Dec 20 2005, 09:45 AM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Dec 20 2005, 04:45 A...   Dec 20 2005, 03:16 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Dec 20 2005, 03:16 PM)I agr...   Dec 20 2005, 05:33 PM
- - djellison   ORRrr.... Design them with the ability to navigat...   Dec 20 2005, 10:05 AM
- - djellison   I went and found the orig MSSS image, got the IMG,...   Dec 20 2005, 10:58 AM
|- - Bjorn Jonsson   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 20 2005, 10:58 AM)I we...   Dec 20 2005, 02:35 PM
- - edstrick   It's a good candidate for the remains. Better...   Dec 20 2005, 11:03 AM
- - djellison   Data from http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r16_r21/...   Dec 20 2005, 11:47 AM
|- - tedstryk   I am not buying it, although I will suspend judgme...   Dec 20 2005, 06:36 PM
- - Decepticon   I bet it landed OK but did not function due to tec...   Dec 20 2005, 01:29 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Nice image processing, Doug - or 'the other Ph...   Dec 20 2005, 01:38 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Dec 20 2005, 05:38 AM)I ...   Dec 20 2005, 05:25 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Dec 20 2005, 05:38 AM)I ...   Dec 21 2005, 09:58 PM
- - Sunspot   I dont think you've read the news report corre...   Dec 20 2005, 06:47 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Dec 20 2005, 06:47 PM)I dont...   Dec 21 2005, 03:56 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Dec 20 2005, 10:56 PM)I am ...   Dec 21 2005, 04:59 AM
- - djellison   I agree - it's not much and certainly far from...   Dec 20 2005, 09:10 PM
- - RNeuhaus   I was not aware of Beagle 2 mission. After reading...   Dec 20 2005, 09:24 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   This was always regarded by engineers before the l...   Dec 20 2005, 09:58 PM
- - AstronomíaOnline.com   The Search For Beagle 2 http://www.beagle2.com T...   Dec 21 2005, 03:11 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Given how close MER-A (I refuse to use that cornba...   Dec 21 2005, 08:30 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 21 2005, 12:30 AM)I ...   Dec 21 2005, 04:40 PM
||- - JRehling   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 21 2005, 08:40 AM)I b...   Dec 22 2005, 02:44 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 21 2005, 01:30 AM)I ...   Dec 22 2005, 09:01 PM
|- - ljk4-1   The news that Beagle 2 may have been spotted on th...   Dec 23 2005, 01:31 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Dec 22 2005, 01:01 PM)...   Dec 23 2005, 07:51 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 23 2005, 12:51 PM)A c...   Dec 27 2005, 04:37 PM
- - Sunspot   If i'm remembering this correctly, and it was ...   Dec 21 2005, 10:29 AM
- - djellison   Unfortunately, only the data sets for EDL are out,...   Dec 21 2005, 10:54 AM
- - Nix   Is it me or is there a radial pattern of dark stre...   Dec 21 2005, 04:19 PM
|- - Sunspot   QUOTE (NIX @ Dec 21 2005, 04:19 PM)Is it me o...   Dec 21 2005, 06:14 PM
- - Nix   Also, every similar crater in the area doesn't...   Dec 21 2005, 04:34 PM
- - Nix   Thanks Sunspot. Nico   Dec 21 2005, 08:29 PM
|- - ugordan   If this crater indeed turns out to be Beagle's...   Dec 21 2005, 09:38 PM
- - Sunspot   It was originaly suspected that the crater visible...   Dec 21 2005, 10:35 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Dec 21 2005, 02:35 PM)The fo...   Dec 21 2005, 10:44 PM
- - Sunspot   Take a look at slide 5 on the Beagle website: Al...   Dec 21 2005, 10:49 PM
- - RNeuhaus   I am still not convinced about the Beagle 2's ...   Dec 21 2005, 10:53 PM
- - djellison   MRO will be able to identify the airbags if they a...   Dec 21 2005, 10:56 PM
- - djellison   Helen just found this.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/w...   Dec 22 2005, 11:43 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 22 2005, 04:43 AM)Hele...   Dec 23 2005, 04:24 AM
- - djellison   Dont forget the equiv. prop mass of the RAD and TI...   Dec 22 2005, 02:48 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Oh, gadfry, Messenger, are you still peddling that...   Dec 23 2005, 06:46 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 23 2005, 01:46 AM)An...   Dec 23 2005, 03:26 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Dec 23 2005, 10:26 AM)I ...   Dec 23 2005, 04:45 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I should add that the Polar Lander failure report ...   Dec 23 2005, 06:49 AM
- - edstrick   Note that the Viking landers directly measured the...   Dec 23 2005, 09:15 AM
- - djellison   Messenger's gravity 'thing' has appear...   Dec 23 2005, 10:02 AM
- - PhilCo126   Well, I cannot make up anything from the images an...   Dec 23 2005, 10:56 AM
- - RNeuhaus   Thanks to The Messenger for the references which a...   Dec 27 2005, 04:44 PM
- - PhilCo126   Talking about spacecraft that kept working... I be...   Dec 27 2005, 04:47 PM
|- - tedstryk   It would have been interesting, had MGS been in an...   Feb 21 2006, 05:21 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep. The rover was also programmed, if it didn...   Dec 27 2005, 10:28 PM
- - lyford   Bruce, you just blew out my anthropomorphometer...   Dec 28 2005, 01:42 AM
- - Sunspot   Just a hypothetical thought here - but say for exa...   Dec 31 2005, 01:11 PM
- - RNeuhaus   It might be. However, up to now, we are not wearin...   Dec 31 2005, 09:49 PM
- - PhilCo126   Don't know if You all noticed the redesign of ...   Feb 21 2006, 04:51 PM
- - djellison   Sojourner was on 459.7 MHz, and MGS Relay is on 40...   Feb 21 2006, 08:47 PM


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