Past landers from HiRISE, Just curious Options

[tuvas]

I know there's alot of photo wizes out there, anyone have an idea as to what the different landers would look like as taken from HiRISE's perspective? I'm sure we'll eventually have pictures of most of them, but just curious what your knowledge can create. Thanks!

[Stu]

Awww, you can't fool me... you've already taken the pictures and just want to be able to say "Look, the real ones are sooooo much better than you guys expected!" when you release them!

[tuvas]

It could be, or it could be that I've spend the last two hours looking for a lander, and then realized I didn't really know what I was looking for at all. But I can tell you that I know of at least one picture that will be taken by HiRISE of another visitor to Mars from our planet.

[Stu]

It could be, or it could be that I've spend the last two hours looking for a lander, and then realized I didn't really know what I was looking for at all. But I can tell you that I know of at least one picture that will be taken by HiRISE of another visitor to Mars from our planet.

Hmmm, let me guess... does it being with "M" and end in "ars Global Surveyor"?

Seriously, I think that's a great idea of yours tuvas, bringing in the UMSF image mages to assist you in your search. If anyone can help you track down missing hardware on Mars, our guys can, and I'm sure they'll be delighted to help.

[Phil Stooke]

Tuvas, this won't help with a Beagle 2 or Polar Lander, where we didn't get a pan from the surface... but in cases where we got a pan the real clincher will be whether you can identify a pattern of surface features around the blob which you think is the lander. The best way to do that is with a polar version of the pan. See for instance Viking 1 and Pathfinder polars which are already on this forum if you do a search.

Phil

[djellison]

What's the rough illumination angle for near-equatorial objects? I can do some renders based on VRML or other rough and ready models - the one thing that my MERB @ HiRISE res simulation is fundamentally lacking is shadows

Doug

[Guest_Myran_*]

Yes, panorama images, for that reason we should be able to find the Viking landers and Pathfinder/Soyourner, with a limited chanse for those where we got one reliable landing ellipse. Theres one suggested location, a small crater, for Beagle2 that there might be an idea to have a look at.

But someone in another thread asked if we could go look for all landers there ever have been including Soviet/Russian ones, and on that im strongly with Phil Stooke - a needle in a haystack search unless we are VERY lucky and happen to catch the reflex of sunlight against one metal surface. Nah, I shouldnt even have suggested that possibility.

[tuvas]

Well, it wouldn't be MGS, that would be relatively easy to find, it's the only dot against a black background, not to mention somewhat larger than would otherwise be. But, I'll give you a non-comprehensive list of possible targets.

1. Spirit
2. Pathfinder
3. Viking 1
4. Viking 2
5. MPO (Not really possible at this time, maybe later)
6. Beagle.


So, if you could find the polar panoramics for those spacecraft, well, there's a good chance that they could be useful. I think Spirit would be easy enough to find as well, it's the non-rovers that make life more difficult. Rovers have the tendency to find something interesting a.k.a. easily visible from space, for example, Oportunity happened to place itself right next to a big crater.

[Phil Stooke]

Here's Pathfinder:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...amp;#entry73883
(post 1 on that page)

and here's Viking 1:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ic=570&st=0 (post 13 on that page)

and, not on UMSF and poor quality, but I don't have a better one yet - here's Viking 2:

http://publish.uwo.ca/~pjstooke/v2reproj.jpg

and, Tuvas - tomorrow from the office I'll send you something better on Viking 2.

Phil

[djellison]

I'm SURE I did a Beagle simulation at various resolutions a while back....I'll see if I can find it. V1 and 2 have MOC images to go from so that shouldn't be too hard and not too many rocks cast a big HGA shadow that I'm sure the viking craft will cast.

Ahh - found something....not that great but...
http://www.djellison.plus.com/lander_from_orbit.jpg

The problem with B2 is that if it got to the point of deploying...it will cast almost no shadow at all.

Doug

[Phil Stooke]

OK, here is something on Viking 1, with Viking 2 to follow.

The attached image is a MOC cPROTO with the location of Vking 1 from the MSSS press release. I can't get an exact match to prominent ridges (crater rims) north and east of the lander from this location. I get a better match at the location I have marked here. Fearless predictions are often wrong! - but I'm making one anyway.

Phil

[Phil Stooke]

And for Viking 2... another fearless prediction. This has been an ongoing problem. My image below extends eastwards from the area shown on the MSSS press release, which can be found at:

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/05/

The Viking 2 panorama includes an area of low hills to the east, and I have found it absolutely impossible to match those hills from the MSSS site. My image also shows two nearby locations in MOC image E0201291. One was suggested by Tim Parker, the oither by me. Mine is further out, but seems to me to match the distant topography better. But mine isn't a perfect match either. In truth I have little confidence in any of these three locations, but I generally prefer mine, or some place near mine. My analysis has been shown as a poster at LPSC:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1074.pdf

Phil

[ElkGroveDan]

anyone have an idea as to what the different landers would look like

Are you looking for a graphical representation? Here's an image from the MGS site depicting an overhead schematic of Viking 2, and a portion of a MOC cPROTO image that Malin and his team conclude is the actual lander (with which Phil Stooke is in disagreement).

Caption:MOC2-1082b; NASA/JPL/MSSS
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/05/

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[nprev]

Never saw that image before, EGD...looks compelling to me, seems to be easily verifiable by HiRISE.

[Phil Stooke]

The trouble is, a hundred other objects might look similarly compelling.

Phil