Phobos-Grunt Options

[Phil Stooke]

The question is, do you want to translate or transliterate? And no, there are no hard and fast rules. Many people actually prefer to call it Phobos Sample Return Mission.

Phil

[nprev]

I really gotta agree with Dan here. I don't think it should be just about PPP, it should be about not introducing foreign materials onto the flight hardware, period.

I don't know what the electrical resistance of human hair is; I suspect that it's high but not a dead open. Still, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want to drift into a circuit path.

My take on it is that it's always better to err on the side of caution.

[stevesliva]

Still, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want to drift into a circuit path.

Or optics.

But I wonder if dust or hair drifting around in space can accumulate a large static charge to discharge? That would be bad.

[maschnitz]

I'd argue the transliteration is Fobos-Grunt and the translation is Phobos-Soil (or Phobos Soil Return Mission).

"Phobos-Grunt" is somewhat goofyfooted as a phrase - "Phobos" is a translation of the Russian name but "Grunt" is a transliteration of the Cyrillic word, not a translation. You can maybe argue the Cyrillic Ф character is better transliterated as "Ph", but it's more commonly transliterated as an F.

And, FWIW, Wikipedia calls it Fobos-Grunt.

[konangrit]

Yes, the issue seems to be Roskosmos translating one word, and transliterating the other. Although I'm not a linguist and as you suggest maybe Фобос could be transliterated as either Phobos and Fobos. Presumably both Phobos and Fobos transliterate as Фобос, so maybe Roskosmos would say that Фобос-Грунт is a transliteration of Phobos-Grunt .

[machi]

It's simple, english Ph sounds same as F in many slavic languages and that is reason why both possibilities (Phobos-Grunt, Fobos-Grunt) exists.
Similarly we write Kanada instead Canada, because english C sounds same as slavic K.

[GEmin1]

Anyhow, I wish the very best of luck to the Russians starting on Tuesday on their first mission to Mars since 1996!It took a lot of perseverance and patience for these guys, working with ridiculous budgets; I believe the cost of Fobos- Grunt is... 64 million dollars?

Around $200 mln. (5 bln. RR)
http://ria.ru/online/456770097.html

I will be taking time off from work just to watch the Zenith taking off (by the way, does anybody know of a site where it will be shown live from Baikonur??)...

http://www.tv-tsenki.com/live.php

[tedstryk]

Well, with Phobos-1 and Phobos-2, Fobos was rarely used, but Venera (Venus) is almost always transliterated. "Марс" transliterates and translates as "Mars", so there isn't an issue.

[GEmin1]

The Zenit-2SB rocket was transported to the launchpad on November 6.

Photos - http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=393
Video - http://www.tvroscosmos.ru/frm/video/start105.php

[stevesliva]

Similarly we write Kanada instead Canada, because english C sounds same as slavic K.

Do you prefer Sliva or Sliwa? Must know.

[machi]

Well, with Phobos-1 and Phobos-2, Fobos was rarely used, but Venera (Venus) is almost always transliterated. "Марс" transliterates and translates as "Mars", so there isn't an issue.

Two problems are related to this. Transcription from cyrillic is first and then proper pronunciation is second. "Марс" sounds (every letter) in russian nearly the same as Mars in English, so direct transcription isn't problem. Phobos is not so easy, because some people simply don't know, which form of transcription is better (which letters are adequate).
I think, that Phobos is better in English texts and Fobos is better for some other languages (I suppose Spanish and so on).
I guess that with Venera, they simply resign on form with similar pronunciation, because adequate letters doesn't exists in German (and Roman) languages for this word (in Czech we write Veněra, which sounds very close to russian form, in English - "Venyera"?).
I found more similar cases, when Russian authors used "intuitive" transcription to English, for example Ganimed (Ganymede) or Kalisto (Callisto).

Do you prefer Sliva or Sliwa? Must know.

I don't know (actually I never found this cross-language problems so important).
It depends how it is pronouced and on the origin of your name. Maybe it's derived from Czech word Slíva (plum).
Then "v" is better. But more important is, what you prefer.

BTW, we need some Russians here!

[SpaceListener]

Russia has traditionally failed all landing missions in Mars. Now, with the Phobos-Grunt mission is so ambitious and somewhat more complicated than the past landings on Mars due to the additional calculations and ephemeral data to catch the phobos moon before landing (landing this is easier than on Mars). Now I see Russia is recurring the radar tracking support from ESA which is of vital importance for the success of the mission with precise position of the space. About the ephemeral data, will Russia obtain from NASA with its vast good data?

I wish this mission would be a success since Russia must have already learned all past lessons (without or little or not enough cooperation versus now with more cooperation with other nations).

[MERovingian]

GEmin1,

Thank you for the link! It's gonna be precious tomorrow afternoon!!

And thanks for correcting the price tag! I can't even remember now where I read that it was 64 million dollars!

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!

[Ulysses]

GEmin1,

Thank you for the link! It's gonna be precious tomorrow afternoon!!

And thanks for correcting the price tag! I can't even remember now where I read that it was 64 million dollars!

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!

I could throw in my Dutch take on the whole Ph/F issue. I won't! I just want to see Russia successfully rejoin the interplanetary club! Fingers crossed, and this will be the site where I hope to find all the updates.

[nprev]

I really hope that some fluent Russian speakers will join us here for the launch; they would be most welcome! Suspect that the launch commentary will not be in English, so those of us who are generally not as linguistically skilled (me and <cough><cough> most of my fellow Americans <choke!>) are gonna be pretty lost...

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!