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GAO: The DSN is actually falling apart
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post May 24 2006, 11:55 PM
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http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-06-445
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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 27 2006, 03:57 PM
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Space programs have a long history of "Not Invented Here" syndrom, as well as being nationalistic. Witness the exercise of duplicating the GPS system in Europe, for example. I think with DSN, you can at least argue that scheduling issues make it advantageous for each program to have its own system.

With regard to politcial stability, what is the situation in the French Guiana? There has been an ongoing struggle for independance in New Caledonia for years now, with occasional outbursts of violence. That would be a setback for ESA if things got strange there, and Washington would definately not help (given their long lasting "Monroe Doctrine" sentiment).
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helvick
post May 27 2006, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 27 2006, 04:57 PM) *
With regard to politcial stability, what is the situation in the French Guiana? There has been an ongoing struggle for independance in New Caledonia for years now, with occasional outbursts of violence. That would be a setback for ESA if things got strange there, and Washington would definately not help (given their long lasting "Monroe Doctrine" sentiment).

French Guyana has never really had much of an independance movement, there are some pushes towards increased autonomy perhaps but there isn't much evidence for a genuine militant independance movement. As an overseas département It is fairly well integrated into France politically and economically but it is a particularly impoverished spot, it is a remnant of colonialism and it is far away so there probably are some risks. I don't think they are significant at this point though.

New Caledonia on the other hand is an overseas territory in an unusual phase since it is in the process of devolving from France and while it is still part of the French Republic at the moment the current plan is to vote on an independance referendum in 2014. It has had a pretty violent independance movement in the recent past but the current process seems to be sort of keeping the lid on things for now.

Still the point is well made - political instability in French Guyana would be highly problematic for ESA. I wouldn't want to see it happen but it would be interesting to see how the French would deal with it - I suspect that Kourou is considered a strategic asset so I can't see the French just idly sitting by if things got unstable. I think you are right as far as the Monroe Doctrine is concerned but I also think that pigs would be seen flying over The Champs Elysees before the French would ask for US assistance in what it would consider an entirely internal affair.

The history of the DSN might have seen some similar problems - the removal of Haartebeeshoek in South Africa to be replaced with Madrid in the mid 70's probably had some political motivation behind it for example.
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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post May 29 2006, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (helvick @ May 27 2006, 05:04 PM) *
New Caledonia .... It has had a pretty violent independance movement in the recent past ...


Not exact, I think. The Kanaks, like many other people in the world, have a somewhat rituellic way to avoid the crude violence of an open conflict. What they did was to symbolicaly hijack some people in a sacred cave. These people were never in life threat, although nobody knows how long they could stay here. The problem which happened was that the police did not understood that, and they reacted as with dealing with true terrorists, invading the cave (an unthinkable thing for the Kanaks, who considered the place as sacred, just expecting to engage a discution) and killed the hijackers. Lucky if they did not provoked large reprisals in a palestinian style.
This said, however, I shall not be surprised if New Caledonia obtains its independency.




QUOTE (helvick @ May 27 2006, 05:04 PM) *
The history of the DSN might have seen some similar problems - the removal of Haartebeeshoek in South Africa to be replaced with Madrid in the mid 70's probably had some political motivation behind it for example.


Probably yes it had, and a good one: boycott of the apartheid. Now this problem is solved, and the situation stabilized, but years of peace will be still needed to create a real confidence here and at large in Africa.
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Posts in this topic
- BruceMoomaw   GAO: The DSN is actually falling apart   May 24 2006, 11:55 PM
- - Analyst   No Reply yet, although without the DSN no planetar...   May 26 2006, 09:14 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Things will not spontaneously become better. DSN ...   May 26 2006, 10:44 AM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2006, 06...   May 26 2006, 11:44 AM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Jim from NSF.com @ May 26 2006, 11...   May 26 2006, 02:28 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (Jim from NSF.com @ May 26 2006, 12...   May 26 2006, 03:28 PM
||- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (djellison @ May 26 2006, 11:28 AM)...   May 26 2006, 07:01 PM
|- - Chmee   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2006, 06...   May 26 2006, 07:42 PM
- - Analyst   (Upfront and/or operating) costs? Size (70m) and p...   May 26 2006, 12:21 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Analyst @ May 26 2006, 12:21 PM) A...   May 26 2006, 02:45 PM
- - RNeuhaus   What would be the solution? More 70 meters antenna...   May 26 2006, 04:03 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   A suggest RNeuhaus, there exist new antenna techno...   May 26 2006, 05:46 PM
- - djellison   Were there any problems w.r.t. politicis, one coul...   May 26 2006, 06:22 PM
- - elakdawalla   There was a lengthy presentation by Bob Preston fr...   May 26 2006, 06:46 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ May 26 2006, 06:46 P...   May 26 2006, 07:12 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2006, 08...   May 26 2006, 11:01 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ May 26 2006, 01:46 P...   May 26 2006, 07:29 PM
- - djellison   There is already international involvement to some...   May 26 2006, 07:44 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (djellison @ May 26 2006, 07:44 PM)...   May 26 2006, 07:48 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ May 26 2006, 08:48...   May 26 2006, 10:48 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ May 26 2006, 07:44 PM)...   May 26 2006, 08:23 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2006, 08...   May 26 2006, 08:28 PM
- - djellison   Truth be told, I could go even further and say tha...   May 26 2006, 08:14 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ May 26 2006, 08:14 PM)...   May 26 2006, 08:36 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2006, 01...   May 27 2006, 02:21 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks DonPMitchell to bring more exact info than ...   May 27 2006, 07:30 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 27 2006, 08...   May 27 2006, 07:39 AM
|- - garybeau   Regardless of how much money is spent upgrading th...   May 27 2006, 01:26 PM
- - djellison   ESA is slowly getting there with a DSN of it's...   May 27 2006, 07:05 AM
- - DonPMitchell   Space programs have a long history of "Not In...   May 27 2006, 03:57 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 27 2006, 04:57 ...   May 27 2006, 05:04 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (helvick @ May 27 2006, 05:04 PM) N...   May 29 2006, 01:14 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 27 2006, 03:57 ...   May 29 2006, 12:58 PM
- - DonPMitchell   I agree, Kourou is strategically important, it wou...   May 27 2006, 05:31 PM


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