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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Uranus and Neptune _ Uranus and/or Neptune Exploration

Posted by: James S. Jul 20 2016, 05:29 PM

I'm 49 and will be 50 in January. With the success of New Horizons, being the first humans to ever see Pluto is mind blowing, I was wondering if I/we will ever see a probe or exploration of Uranus and Neptune? Are there any plans for exploring these two planets in the near future?

Thanks,
James Sontag

Posted by: tedstryk Jul 26 2016, 08:08 PM

No

Posted by: mcaplinger Jul 26 2016, 08:52 PM

QUOTE (James S. @ Jul 20 2016, 09:29 AM) *
Are there any plans for exploring these two planets in the near future?

Depends on your definitions of "plans" and "near".

There are always plans. See, for example, "Uranus and Neptune Orbiter and Probe Concept Studies", http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/ssbsite/documents/webpage/ssb_059323.pdf

In the last decadal survey (for missions through 2022), a Uranus orbiter and probe mission was ranked third after a Mars sample return cacher and a Europa orbiter/multiple flyby mission. Given budget realities, I think it's very unlikely that a Uranus mission will happen in that time period, and after that, who knows?

Posted by: JRehling Jul 27 2016, 06:47 PM

It seems like Europa, Titan, Io, and Enceladus could keep trumping Uranus and Neptune plans for decades. Titan, certainly, has merit comparable to Mars for repeated generations of missions, except the cruise time is unfortunately much longer so the iterations would have to be ~decadal instead of biennial, and the same may be said of Europa.

I just posted about the incredible capabilities expected of the EELT when it comes online in Chile c. 2024. Boasting 16 times the resolution of HST, it could view the Uranus system with about half the resolution that HST can image Mars. That could perform some pretty nice science from the ground. In the case of Uranus, that's particularly nice because the axial inclination means that the full range of seasons/latitudes could only be observed by a long-life orbiter, while something on the ground can sit and wait for the opportunities as they come.

Posted by: James S. Jul 27 2016, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Jul 26 2016, 03:52 PM) *
Depends on your definitions of "plans" and "near".

There are always plans. See, for example, "Uranus and Neptune Orbiter and Probe Concept Studies", http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/ssbsite/documents/webpage/ssb_059323.pdf

In the last decadal survey (for missions through 2022), a Uranus orbiter and probe mission was ranked third after a Mars sample return cacher and a Europa orbiter/multiple flyby mission. Given budget realities, I think it's very unlikely that a Uranus mission will happen in that time period, and after that, who knows?

Thank you for the link for the Uranus and Neptune Orbiter and Probe Concept Studies. It is fascinating reading.


Posted by: Brian Burns Jul 27 2016, 08:07 PM

I'm hoping for the same thing, but am guessing other things will get more attention and money, unless mission costs come way down somehow (AI, robot manufacturing, nanosatellites, laser sails, who knows...). I'm about the same age so have another 40 years or so to see what happens. smile.gif

But here are some proposed Uranus/Neptune orbiters anyway, with some possible launch dates -

Uranus Orbiter and Probe (JPL), launch 2025
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_orbiter_and_probe

MUSE (Mission to Uranus for Science and Exploration) (ESA), launch 2026
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSE_(spacecraft)

ODINUS (Origins, Dynamics, and Interiors of the Neptunian and Uranian Systems) (ESA)
Dual Uranus and Neptune orbiters, launch 2034
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODINUS

Some more info -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Uranus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Neptune

I like the idea of using more powerful telescopes with adaptive optics to image them, e.g. Uranus from Keck in 2004 - http://www.keckobservatory.org/images/made/images/press_images/3_3_800_623.jpg (from http://www.keckobservatory.org/recent/entry/keck_pictures_of_uranus_show_best_view_from_the_ground), and Hubble - http://cdn.spacetelescope.org/archives/images/screen/opo9736a.jpg (from https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/opo9736a/).

And the JWST...

I've been playing with the Voyager 2 images of Uranus and Neptune - I figure that'll be the closest thing to visiting them again for a while (eg some rough Uranus movies - http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=8215&view=findpost&p=231787).

Posted by: jasedm Jul 27 2016, 08:59 PM

QUOTE (James S. @ Jul 27 2016, 08:00 PM) *
Thank you for the link for the Uranus and Neptune Orbiter and Probe Concept Studies. It is fascinating reading.


Fascinating indeed. I think Uranus has more chance of a green flag of the two, as the proposed mission has a similar launch/cruise timescale to New Horizons (NH). Interesting that 50% of the instruments proposed have NH heritage too, and that the proposed orbiter itself looks superficially like New Horizons.

Aerocapture seems to be a serious consideration, albeit with a $150-$200 million price tag for development.

Science priorities are focussed on atmosphere/magnetosphere/gravity and thermal emission science with satellite imagery taking a back seat. Without wanting to be controversial, I wonder how memorable to the general public the Cassini mission would have been had the satellite observations been descoped due to costs....

That said, I'm all for a mission of any description to an ice giant, I just hope I'm around to marvel at the results.


Posted by: Floyd Jul 27 2016, 09:14 PM

I hope I'm around too, but turning 70--so I need to have data coming back by 2036 if I make it to 90 (with luck), 2046 if I make it to 100 (not too likely).

Posted by: acastillo Aug 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Recent material on mission studies for Uranus and Neptune.

Fact chart on the Oceanus mission:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/meetings/aug2016/posters/Elder.pdf

More comprehensive presentation on the status of mission studies done at JPL:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/meetings/aug2016/presentations/day-2/Hofstadter.pdf


I just hope to see one of these missions in my lifetime. These are amazing worlds in the own right.

Posted by: Explorer1 Aug 26 2016, 12:39 AM

Slide 15 of the second PDF is rather amusing, with the comically large panels; thanks for the links though!

Posted by: Juramike Aug 26 2016, 04:15 AM

Well might as well post this here, too. Was our Planetary Science School study of a Neptune flyby mission. Went through Team X.

Presentation on TRIDENT student exercise study for a Neptune mission that was presented at the Outer Planets Assessment Group (OPAG).
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/jan2014/presentations/17_uckert.pdf

Full article (Alibay et al., IEEE) is available on ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264229163_Design_of_a_low_cost_mission_to_the_Neptunian_system

(at the time of the study, we only had an Atlas 551 launch vehicle available. We tried for an orbiter mission, but in the end had to settle for a flyby mission trying to keep under a $1B cost cap.)

Posted by: Station Mar 20 2017, 09:46 AM

Hello,

Any update about studies around Uranus / Neptune mission? Is there any hope such mission will be launched till, lets say, 2030 ?

I cannot imagine noone (any space agency) is not interested in sending a probe to these two celestial bodies. The Voyager data are just nothing more than a tip of the iceberg...

Meanwhile it seems there will be .... 3 missions to Europa...

Posted by: Paolo Mar 20 2017, 05:27 PM

you may want to check presentations and finidings of the latest OPAG meeting
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/

Posted by: JRehling Mar 21 2017, 01:32 AM

I would hope that the several newer national space programs will start to carve out niches for themselves, exploring some places that are otherwise being ignored. For the time being, it's not surprising that these programs have sent a few missions to the Moon and Mars, but perhaps they'll branch out to plant their metaphorical flag somewhere they can be first. But Uranus and Neptune aren't easy targets to start with, and don't provide a speedy payoff in terms of PR and national pride.

The outer solar system has several remarkable targets competing for few launches with very long cruise times. Uranus and Neptune could get bumped by other priorities for a long time. In the meantime, the capabilities of Earth-based telescopes are improving dramatically, and those two planets themselves will be monitored remotely more or less continuously from now on. The satellites, however, are hard to resolve without a dedicated mission.

Posted by: Station Mar 21 2017, 12:57 PM

Imho there is no other option than sending dedicated orbiter (or even a lander) to the uranian / neptunian system. You will never get such dramaticaly high quality photos of Uranus' moons using earth-based hardware. Moreover, many in-situ "investigations" give much more answers than pointing the telescope localised on Earth.

Posted by: Jackbauer Jun 13 2017, 07:41 PM


ICE GIANTS PRE-DECADAL STUDY FINAL REPORT
(NASA)

https://twitter.com/jjfplanet/status/874366189622796288

Posted by: antipode Jun 13 2017, 10:43 PM

Golly, now lets see what comes of it.
I'll be in my rocking chair if and when these things deliver but my god they are needed.

P

Posted by: stevesliva Jun 16 2017, 08:53 PM

To ensure that the most productive mission is flown, we recommend the following:
An orbiter with probe be flown to one of the ice giants
The orbiter carry a payload between 90 and 150 kg
The probe carry at minimum a mass spectrometer and atmospheric pressure, temperature,
and density sensors
The development of eMMRTGs and HEEET be completed as planned
Two-planet, two-spacecraft mission options be explored further

Launch would be 2030, arrival 2043 for Neptune
Launch would be 2031, arrival 2043 for Uranus

All of the above: Orbiter and Probe for both projected to cost $3.671B ... $125M per year for the next 30 years.

Posted by: Decepticon Jun 16 2017, 09:37 PM

I get sad seeing those dates. I don't know if I'll be on earth anymore to observe those missions.

Uranus moons have so much to show us still.

Posted by: Explorer1 Jun 16 2017, 11:59 PM

A launch on the SLS to avoid a bunch of inner solar system gravity assists would speed the trip up.
Trouble is, getting to the ice giants faster means using more delta-v to slow down, as the paper notes. There must be some good balance of the two pressures. We can always hope for a propulsion breakthrough...

Posted by: craigmcg Jun 17 2017, 12:43 PM

This week's Planetary Radio also mentioned briefly that there was an option to fly Cassini to Uranus, although she characterized it as a "1%" option.

http://www.planetary.org/multimedia/planetary-radio/show/2017/0614-julie-webster-cassini.html

Posted by: Explorer1 Jun 17 2017, 02:29 PM

There were a number of such concepts for Cassini EOM. More details here (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/march_08_meeting/presentations/spilker.pdf)
20 (!) years to get to Uranus after Saturn escape! Easier to just go from Earth with a whole new mission.

Posted by: tedstryk Jun 21 2017, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (stevesliva @ Jun 16 2017, 08:53 PM) *
Launch would be 2030, arrival 2043 for Neptune
Launch would be 2031, arrival 2043 for Uranus


Brings new meaning to, "When I'm 64" (or 63 if it's early in the year).

Posted by: Explorer1 Jun 22 2017, 10:02 PM

On the bright side, if a orbiter is at Neptune in April 2046 with a good imager, it will have quite the show: http://xplanet.sourceforge.net/Gallery/20460429_jupiter/

Posted by: James S. Jun 22 2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jun 22 2017, 05:02 PM) *
On the bright side, if a orbiter is at Neptune in April 2046 with a good imager, it will have quite the show: http://xplanet.sourceforge.net/Gallery/20460429_jupiter/

That would be awesome. I'll be 79 if I'm still alive.

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