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Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community?, Cleave said it was at LPSC?
Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Mar 16 2006, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM) *
Galileo WOULD have launched in '86 were it not for the Challenger accident though.

Good point, Doug. I think we need to be careful here in distinguishing between actual mission launches and project starts. A few U.S. planetary missions were initiated in the early to mid-1980's.
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JRehling
post Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 08:22 AM) *
If you're in your 60's - you had Apollo.


If you're in your 90's - you had Lindbergh.
biggrin.gif
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Bob Shaw
post Mar 16 2006, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM) *
If you're in your 90's - you had Lindbergh.
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You're so, so Wright, brother!

Bob Shaw


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Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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ljk4-1
post Mar 16 2006, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 11:46 AM) *
If you're in your 90's - you had Lindbergh.
biggrin.gif


My grandmother, who worked as a secretary on Fifth Avenue in New York
City in the late 1920s, saw Lindbergh's ticker tape parade out the window of
her office after his famous trans-Atlantic flight in 1927.


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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tedstryk
post Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM) *
Galileo WOULD have launched in '86 were it not for the Challenger accident though.

Doug

Well, had it not been tied to the shuttle, it would have lauched in '81 or '82. And, had it not been for the "everything goes by shuttle" rule, Magellan would have probably launched sooner too. But, due to bad management, the 80's, save 1989, saw no planetary launches. I would view this differently if Galileo in any way needed the Shuttle for technical reasons, not political/bureaucratic ones.


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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Mar 16 2006, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM) *
Well, had it not been tied to the shuttle, it would have lauched in '81 or '82. And, had it not been for the "everything goes by shuttle" rule, Magellan would have probably launched sooner too.

I believe Magellan was only slightly delayed by the Challenger loss. If I remember correctly, its original launch date was ca. 1988. And VOIR was cancelled pre-Challenger loss.
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ljk4-1
post Mar 16 2006, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 16 2006, 11:12 AM) *
Not to be pedantic but Magellan launched five months before Galileo. It's true, though, that the latter was started first.


Thank you for the correction, Alex. Memory is going - I can feel it.

Regarding probe missions originating in the 1980s, I feel I must
emphasize the Venera and Vega missions. These probes produced
the first color images of Venus' surface (and the last actual images
of that planet's surface from the surface to date) plus the only balloon
probes of Venus' atmosphere - or any other world's atmosphere to
date.

In addition to the first flybys of Comet Halley and the first balloons on
Venus (plus two landers), had Vega 1 and 2 not been so low on fuel, they
would have performed the first distant flyby (about 600,000 miles) of a
planetoid, Adonis (BIS Spaceflight article on Soviet Venus missions, 1992).


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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tedstryk
post Mar 16 2006, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 16 2006, 05:36 PM) *
Thank you for the correction, Alex. Memory is going - I can feel it.

Regarding probe missions originating in the 1980s, I feel I must
emphasize the Venera and Vega missions. These probes produced
the first color images of Venus' surface (and the last actual images
of that planet's surface from the surface to date) plus the only balloon
probes of Venus' atmosphere - or any other world's atmosphere to
date.

In addition to the first flybys of Comet Halley and the first balloons on
Venus (plus two landers), had Vega 1 and 2 not been so low on fuel, they
would have performed the first distant flyby (about 600,000 miles) of a
planetoid, Adonis (BIS Spaceflight article on Soviet Venus missions, 1992).

Yes, I mentioned those in my earlier post too, but they don't factor in when discussing the handling of U.S. dollars. My point isn't that the Challenger caused the delay of all these missions, but the Shuttle program in general - having to be launched on the shuttle made them more expensive.


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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Mar 16 2006, 09:31 PM
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Andrew Lawler has an excellent article ("A Space Race to the Bottom Line") in the March 17, 2006, issue of Science about last week's meeting (in Washington, D.C.) of the National Academies' Space Studies Board:

Here's an excerpt:

"Short of an abrupt cancellation of the shuttle and station programs, there are few prospects for a dramatic change in science's fortunes. Indeed, this year's overall increase of 3.2% for NASA may look good in a few years, board members fear. And even if the shuttle is retired in 2010 once the space station is complete, the space agency's budget documents note that the dividends will go into the exploration program rather than science.

"'We're not going to be able to execute the decadal [studies] as they exist,' concludes Lennard Fisk, board chair and a geophysicist at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. A 1% increase in NASA's science budget, he says, translates into 'a major retrenchment.' And scientists say they would rather make the hard choices than leave them to NASA managers. If they don't, Blandford warns, 'choices that should be scientific and technical will be left to the political process.'

"After hours of discussion, board members broadly agreed to protect research funds for the university community and for smaller missions. That decision puts larger efforts in each discipline on the chopping block. Moore suggested that to find earth science savings, the $430 million Landsat mission slated for launch by 2010 could be reviewed, and astronomers privately and cautiously suggest that deferring JWST by a few years could rescue smaller astrophysics missions in the near term. The largest planetary mission now scheduled is the Mars Science Laboratory, slated for a 2009 launch; among solar physicists, the big-ticket item is the Solar Dynamics Observatory due for orbit in 2008."

This post has been edited by AlexBlackwell: Mar 16 2006, 09:32 PM
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Mar 17 2006, 04:33 AM
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Yeah, before we start sniffling too much about our cruel mistreatment, we really should keep in mind that the situation right now is not even remotely comparable to the genuine desert of the 1980s. We are now in the Second Golden Age of Solar System Exploration -- just a brief look at what's happened or is scheduled to happen this year alone makes that clear. We could, however, be doing even better.
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Bob Shaw
post Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 17 2006, 04:33 AM) *
We are now in the Second Golden Age of Solar System Exploration...


Damn right, Bruce.

Active interplanetary spacecraft currently returning science data, not counting those in orbital storage or science spacecraft in solar orbit:

1. Messenger
2. Venus Express
3. SMART-1
4. Ulysses
5. MGS
6. Mars Odyssey
7. MRO
8. Mars Express
9. Spirit
10. Opportunity
11. New Horizons
12. Cassini
13. Voyager 1
14. Voyager 2
(15. Hayabusa)

Bob Shaw


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edstrick
post Mar 17 2006, 09:52 AM
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As a boy, my dad (who worked as a quality control manager on Apollo .. His inspectors signed off on the LM Ascent engines...) watched from a window in the Flatiron building in Manhattan as they held the grand parade for the boys coming home from "over there". That's a bit before Lindberg.
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centsworth_II
post Mar 17 2006, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 17 2006, 04:52 AM) *
His inspectors signed off on the LM Ascent engines


Wow. What was that like, countdown to ignition? Confidence, or terror?
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tedstryk
post Mar 17 2006, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM) *
Damn right, Bruce.

Active interplanetary spacecraft currently returning science data, not counting those in orbital storage or science spacecraft in solar orbit:

1. Messenger
2. Venus Express
3. SMART-1
4. Ulysses
5. MGS
6. Mars Odyssey
7. MRO
8. Mars Express
9. Spirit
10. Opportunity
11. New Horizons
12. Cassini
13. Voyager 1
14. Voyager 2
(15. Hayabusa)

Bob Shaw


Good list...you could also add Stardust and Deep Impact in parentheses, given their possible extensions.


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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Mar 18 2006, 12:47 AM
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Mark Peplow has an update in his LPSC blog.
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