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Posted by: dvandorn Jul 7 2005, 04:03 PM

I just wanted to check in with all of our valued members in the U.K. -- to make sure none of you were riding the Tube in London this morning. Or perhaps were on one particular double-decker bus.

I'd hate to lose anyone in this forum to such senseless acts.

-the other Doug

Posted by: djellison Jul 7 2005, 04:18 PM

I'm not from London, but I was in Kings Cross on Tuesday night and have spent the day just rather shaked up.

I've just got an email from Chris King who I know works in London saying that he's fine - I dont know of anyone else in the forum from in or around London.

From the joy of the Olympics yesterday - to utter shock, horror and fury today.

Thanks for your concern - there's a lot of people who are in a mild state of shock and will be for a while I think.

Doug

Posted by: brianc Jul 7 2005, 04:45 PM

Thankyou Other Doug

We Brits really appreciate your concern, I guess it's come as a shock but no real surprise, it just emphasises the importance and value in the friendships and support between ourselves and our nations.

Posted by: volcanopele Jul 7 2005, 06:37 PM

I'm glad to hear everyone here from the UK is alright. It is just a shock to see a city be so jubilant one day, then be so devastated the next. I hope you recover quickly from this, and out of this tragedy you can look forward to a city reborn over the next 7 years when you host the Olympics.

Posted by: ilbasso Jul 7 2005, 06:50 PM

I was in the air en route from Shanghai to London when the 9-11 attacks occurred - we were the last flight allowed into Heathrow that day. For the entire week I was in London following the attacks, the British couldn't have been nicer to me. everyone who heard my American accent on the streets or in the shops asked if I was okay and if my family and friends were all right.

I will never forget the wonderful kindness that the British showed me that week. They are a people who truly know how to unite in the face of adversity and help each other pull through tragedy. Surviving the "Blitz" is still in their collective memory.

My heart goes out to everyone affected by these awful attacks. The world stands with you!

Posted by: Nix Jul 7 2005, 07:51 PM

I also want to share my compassion to the victims of this brutal attack and let the Brits (Doug himself and others) know I feel the rage, and the sadness. London is very close to me (Bel). Seems like security has failed again, seems like it really CAN happen everywhere, that goes for my country. Hard times...

Respectfully, Nico

Posted by: Richard Trigaux Jul 7 2005, 09:14 PM

Even if the government of my country refused to follow Bush in Irak, I feel no more safe from such senseless attacks: everybody can be the target of blind and hateful violence.

What I wanted to note was the accute contrast between these stupid fascist attacks and this forum where we speak of space exploration, knowledge and all the marvelous possibilities it implies. There are some who are really not ready to enjoy living in such a vast and beautiful universe.

Posted by: Bill Harris Jul 8 2005, 02:11 AM

My condolences and prayers go out to the victims of this tragedy.

The universe can be a wondrous place to explore, but that same human spirit has a dark side. That is a horrible dichotomy.

--Bill

Posted by: Tman Jul 8 2005, 08:56 AM

I want express my sincere condolences to the victims of this senseless attacks too. And want buoy up to all relevant people!

Let me just say this: There are so many things that going wrong in our world, but this is the worst! That's not the fight for a worth living future, that is (for all believers around the world) satanic!

Posted by: jaredGalen Jul 8 2005, 10:01 AM

I must say that the attack that occurred yesterday can not be wholly put down to a lack of security.
The volume of traffic through the underground and bus services everyday in London is such that to impose the same restrictions as one would find at an airport is, in my opinion, not feasible. It would hinder the movement of people to an extent that would certainly cripple the city, socially and economically.

I don't want to start a rant, I just want to say that what happened cannot be blamed, I feel, on any one person or authority.
It is very hard to defend against those who are willing to go to such extremes to achieve there aim of hurting a nation, a people and an ideal of democracy, freedom and the protection of the innocent. Namely, walking onto a crowded bus carrying explosives.

Whatever my views on Iraq and Britains support of America, I believe Tony Blair to be a good leader and more importantly, a good man who does what he believes is right. Those who perpetrate such acts as occurred yesterday are attacking everyone one of us who want to see an end to tyranny and the supression of the human spirit.

London, Britain and all those who stand by her citizens will not have the extent of their liberty dictated by hate filled people.

Thoughts and good wishes

jG

Posted by: chris Jul 8 2005, 10:06 AM

London yesterday was an eerie place. No vehicles on the roads at all, and very quiet, except for the almost continuous wail of sirens in the distance. Late in the afternoon, the streets were full of people walking home or to main line stations. I saw no evidence at all of the "chaos" that some media outlets were reporting.

London today is very much business as usual. The only changes are that sections of some of the Underground lines are shut, and a LOT of police in high visibility jackets at all the stations.

The concerns expressed by all of you are are greatly appreciated.

Chris

Posted by: Nix Jul 8 2005, 10:47 AM

I know Jared, didn't mean to fully blame security for this, we're dealing with a very complicated situation/method of warfare, as you said, security should not hinder daily traffic/movement.

Posted by: Bill Harris Jul 8 2005, 01:00 PM

Short of turning countries into totalitarian states, there is no way to provide adequate security from these attacks. In many ways, the current adventure in Iraq has been beneficial to the terrorist cause.

--Bill

Posted by: Bob Shaw Jul 8 2005, 01:42 PM

Having worked regularly in London (I was also born there but live in Scotland) what I found most disturbing was the assault on familiarity - these incidents all happened in places I know, on corners I've passed. The World Trade Center was iconic in many ways, and as such was on the Big List; Woburn Place, however, was almost home. As Ken Livingstone (almost) said, attacking the Pentagon, the G8, Tony Blair etc is quite different from going up against unprotected innocents on their way to work.

I suppose some scapegoats for the 'errors' in intelligence (there's bound to have been some, somewhere!) will be found in due course, but really that's just a sideshow - if someone wants to attack an open society, then it'll happen. When the IRA came close to blowing up the Thatcher's Conservative Cabinet at Brighton in the 1980s (oddly, in a hotel I also knew well!) the IRA issued a chilling statement after the event, which went more-or-less like this (they didn't get very many of them): 'Today you were lucky - but you'll have to be lucky every day from now on, and we to be lucky just once...'. Sadly, that remains true today, and all across the world.

Ah, well...

Posted by: dvandorn Jul 8 2005, 06:56 PM

That's a point I've made since even before 9/11/01. The price of liberty is vigilance, someone once said -- you have to be vigilant. As an individual. But any effective way of keeping such attacks from happening, *ever*, inevitably ends up destroying so many freedoms that, frankly, I'd rather risk such attacks to retain the freedoms I've enjoyed all my life.

For all you Christians out there, remember that Jesus told us to turn the other cheek when slapped. Absorb the pain, and go on. Not to hide in fear, and not to blindly attack anything that even remotely looks like it might slap us again...

Even though I'm not a Christian, those are really good words to live by. Especially in these troubled times.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that all of our UK friends here seem to be OK. A good friend of mine just passed away this morning after a long struggle with ALS -- I'm glad I only have one friend to mourn today.

-the other Doug

Posted by: Richard Trigaux Jul 9 2005, 07:00 AM

Thank you all on this thread for your sane reactions about this difficult situation. It seems that looking into the sky provides a better understanding about what is going on on Earth. Or that the link between science and spirituality is not dead.


(Notes for correctly understand above:
1) sane reactions: it is so easy to get fooled into populist or racist reactions and become hateful and evil doing ourselves
especially thanks to Dvandorn:

2) spirituality: the understanding of human mind, not the fools who make a caricature of Islam, of course. Remember that most stars have arabic names, understand why.)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 10 2005, 09:37 PM

My brother was in London the day before the bomb, and I'll be there in September (passing through to visit family). And growing up in the south of England I've had many reasons to be in London over the years. This isn't the first bombing in London since the War, the IRA has also done this - and not only to "high value targets" like Maggie Thatcher as they did in Brighton. I suppose I'll be wary, as I was a bit wary in Moscow when they had bombs in recent years - I was in the underground shopping area just west of the Kremlin which was later bombed, though it was a small thing. But life has to go on... I guess.

Phil

Posted by: djellison Jul 10 2005, 10:41 PM

Phil - going to be about for the September Cambridge meetings? Check the news forum for the BAA line up the weekend before

Posted by: Myran Jul 11 2005, 04:30 PM

I just like to add my sincere condolences to those affected also.
We got the media buzzing here, so im quite well informed, seems they timed it very well for maximum media and psychologocal impact.
And to add to some of the insightful words said here already: Remember that fringe groups use terrorism as a weapon when they dont even have the support of a majority of their own population. But I hope they bring the terrorists to justice.

Posted by: dvandorn Jul 12 2005, 01:14 AM

Amen.

-the other Doug