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"Dragonfly" Titan explorer drone, NASA funds Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL)
Jaro_in_Montreal
post Dec 20 2017, 09:04 PM
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Is there a specific website for this Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) concept for a Titan explorer drone?
Looks to be an RTG powered machine, somewhat reminiscent of MSL Curiosity (RTG sticking out the tail end).
But no camera mast, ChemCam, or sampling arm visible in the concept illustration.

QUOTE
Dec. 20, 2017
RELEASE 17-101
NASA Invests in Concept Development for Missions to Comet, Saturn Moon Titan
Dragonfly
Dragonfly is a drone-like rotorcraft that would explore the prebiotic chemistry and habitability of dozens of sites on Saturn’s moon Titan, an ocean world in our solar system.
Elizabeth Turtle from the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Maryland, is the lead investigator, with APL providing project management.


https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-inv...turn-moon-titan

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nprev
post Dec 31 2017, 09:31 AM
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I wonder how effectively it could navigate over long distances. We don't have nearly good enough surface maps for AI terrain recognition, there's no significant magnetic field, so all that's left is inertial. Maintaining a good heading alignment over long periods may be problematic since IMUs do have inherent drift, and though periodic realignment is the usual method to correct that Titan's outer shell rotation seems to vary significantly in comparison to the rest of the moon's mass (not sure if that's a fixed offset or variable), and measuring rate & direction of rotation after vertical alignment is the usual method of finding true north (and latitude).

This could possibly be augmented by RDFing the vehicle's downlink to Earth, but not sure how much position precision could be achieved...tens/hundreds of km? Then again, maybe the position of the Sun could be used as well, foggy though it's gonna be. Dunno if Saturn would be detectable, but the Sun's definitely gonna be the only possible reference star.


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RoverDriver
post Dec 31 2017, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 31 2017, 01:31 AM) *
...
but the Sun's definitely gonna be the only possible reference star.


The nadir vector can be detected by the accelerometers. The Mars rovers we use: clock, Sun position, and nadir vector. As an alternative gyro compassing might be quite more difficult but not impossible.

Paolo


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mcaplinger
post Dec 31 2017, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Dec 31 2017, 08:25 AM) *
The Mars rovers we use: clock, Sun position, and nadir vector.

That gives you rover orientation for antenna pointing, but AFAIK, not absolute location to any kind of accuracy.

For Titan, I would expect Earth-based radiometric positioning to be accurate to at least 100s of meters, easily good enough for vehicle navigation.


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RoverDriver
post Jan 2 2018, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 31 2017, 08:50 AM) *
That gives you rover orientation for antenna pointing, but AFAIK, not absolute location to any kind of accuracy.
...


True, although maybe you can get latitude, definitely not longitude. Likely dead reckoning would be quite difficult unless some kind of visual odometry or SLAM is employed.

Paolo


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Posts in this topic
- Jaro_in_Montreal   "Dragonfly" Titan explorer drone   Dec 20 2017, 09:04 PM
- - elakdawalla   dragonfly.jhuapl.edu   Dec 20 2017, 09:33 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 20 2017, 04:33 P...   Dec 22 2017, 01:22 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 20 2017, 04:33 P...   Dec 14 2018, 09:51 PM
- - Julius   This mission should easily top the list. Titan her...   Dec 22 2017, 03:55 PM
|- - Y Bar Ranch   I use Titan as a case study for an aero class I te...   Dec 29 2017, 10:45 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Julius @ Dec 22 2017, 07:55 AM) Th...   Dec 30 2017, 05:39 AM
|- - Julius   QUOTE (vjkane @ Dec 30 2017, 06:39 AM) Th...   Dec 30 2017, 12:23 PM
|- - Jaro_in_Montreal   QUOTE (Julius @ Dec 30 2017, 12:23 PM) I ...   Dec 30 2017, 05:30 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Jaro_in_Montreal @ Dec 30 2017, 09...   Dec 30 2017, 06:03 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 30 2017, 10:03 AM...   Dec 31 2017, 02:12 AM
- - mcaplinger   I share everyone's excitement, but we are unli...   Dec 30 2017, 04:52 PM
- - Explorer1   Opportunity certainly went beyond its designed ran...   Dec 31 2017, 02:55 AM
- - nprev   I wonder how effectively it could navigate over lo...   Dec 31 2017, 09:31 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 31 2017, 09:31 AM) We ...   Dec 31 2017, 02:36 PM
|- - RoverDriver   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 31 2017, 01:31 AM) ......   Dec 31 2017, 04:25 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Dec 31 2017, 08:25 A...   Dec 31 2017, 04:50 PM
||- - RoverDriver   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 31 2017, 08:50 AM...   Jan 2 2018, 06:23 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (nprev @ Dec 31 2017, 01:31 AM) I w...   Dec 31 2017, 04:46 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (vjkane @ Dec 31 2017, 04:46 PM) Fr...   Dec 31 2017, 05:24 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (vjkane @ Dec 31 2017, 08:46 AM) Wi...   Dec 31 2017, 10:17 PM
- - Y Bar Ranch   Wonder what kinds of information can be gathered b...   Jan 1 2018, 04:39 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Y Bar Ranch @ Dec 31 2017, 08:39 P...   Jan 1 2018, 03:30 PM
|- - Y Bar Ranch   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 1 2018, 10:30 AM) Tha...   Jan 1 2018, 10:44 PM
- - Daniele_bianchino_Italy   I certainly hope for this mission. but ... if one ...   Jan 2 2018, 05:51 PM
|- - Explorer1   QUOTE (Daniele_bianchino_Italy @ Jan 2 2018, ...   Jan 2 2018, 08:49 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jan 2 2018, 12:49 PM) ...   Jan 2 2018, 10:41 PM
||- - Webscientist   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 2 2018, 11:41 PM) How...   Jan 3 2018, 06:05 PM
||- - Webscientist   QUOTE (Webscientist @ Jan 3 2018, 07:05 P...   Jan 3 2018, 06:10 PM
|- - Habukaz   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jan 2 2018, 09:49 PM) ...   Jan 4 2018, 04:20 PM
- - fredk   QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jan 2 2018, 07:23 PM...   Jan 2 2018, 06:54 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (fredk @ Jan 2 2018, 10:54 AM) Know...   Jan 2 2018, 07:56 PM
|- - JRehling   From half of Titan's surface, Saturn will be v...   Jan 6 2018, 08:15 AM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jan 6 2018, 12:15 AM) G...   Jan 6 2018, 06:26 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 6 2018, 10:26 AM) The...   Jan 7 2018, 03:31 AM
- - Daniele_bianchino_Italy   iL kraken sea extends to 56 north. I think small l...   Jan 3 2018, 07:07 PM
- - scalbers   How about some twilight lake watching? https://ww...   Jan 3 2018, 11:25 PM
- - scalbers   At around 0.93 microns these images would be inter...   Jan 7 2018, 10:28 PM
- - Explorer1   A nice video overview from the PI: https://www.you...   Jan 17 2019, 12:22 AM
- - propguy   Announcement is out. Dragonfly is the next New Fr...   Jun 27 2019, 08:12 PM
- - charborob   According to this press release, launch in 2026 an...   Jun 27 2019, 08:55 PM
|- - Steve G   QUOTE (charborob @ Jun 27 2019, 12:55 PM)...   Jun 27 2019, 09:23 PM
- - pioneer   Interesting mission. I wonder how it will avoid l...   Jun 27 2019, 09:31 PM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (pioneer @ Jun 27 2019, 10:31 PM) I...   Jun 28 2019, 12:09 AM
|- - Hungry4info   QUOTE (pioneer @ Jun 27 2019, 04:31 PM) I...   Jun 28 2019, 12:53 AM
|- - MahFL   QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Jun 28 2019, 01:53 A...   Jun 28 2019, 02:28 AM
- - nprev   Congrats to all involved! Should be a VERY exc...   Jun 27 2019, 10:01 PM
|- - JRehling   This is super exciting.   Jun 27 2019, 10:26 PM
- - Explorer1   Huygens was one of the highlights of my youth, and...   Jun 27 2019, 11:31 PM
- - volcanopele   Cassini RADAR mosaic of Selk and the surrounding e...   Jun 28 2019, 12:58 AM
- - Explorer1   Well, one thing that is guaranteed is Dragonfly fi...   Jun 28 2019, 02:52 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jun 27 2019, 10:52 PM)...   Jun 29 2019, 03:01 AM
- - vjkane   Ralph L: recovered from the celebration yet?   Jun 28 2019, 03:52 PM
- - vjkane   A year or so ago, the Cassini VIMS team released a...   Jun 28 2019, 03:58 PM
|- - JRehling   Here is a zoom to the region of Selk (upper center...   Jun 28 2019, 08:30 PM
|- - kymani76   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jun 28 2019, 04:58 PM) A ...   Jun 30 2019, 09:08 PM
- - lilmac   Exciting news. I find Titan to be the most fascina...   Jun 29 2019, 04:37 PM
|- - dolphin   QUOTE (lilmac @ Jun 29 2019, 05:37 PM) Ex...   Jun 29 2019, 04:39 PM
- - Superstring   Really excited about this! Question to anyone ...   Jun 29 2019, 10:32 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Superstring @ Jun 29 2019, 02:32 P...   Jun 29 2019, 11:11 PM
|- - MahFL   Most of the time DragonFly will be GroundFly...   Jun 30 2019, 02:41 AM
- - Decepticon   I was a little upset that we may not see any close...   Jun 30 2019, 04:34 AM
|- - JRehling   Titan has extraordinary diversity of surface units...   Jun 30 2019, 07:50 PM
|- - Webscientist   Great news! A major technological and scientif...   Jun 30 2019, 08:41 PM
|- - JRehling   Most locations in Titan's low latitudes did no...   Jun 30 2019, 09:01 PM
|- - Webscientist   For a presentation upon the Cassini-Huygens missio...   Jul 1 2019, 08:06 AM
|- - Webscientist   For the perspective, another one revealing the wor...   Jul 1 2019, 08:09 AM
- - ngunn   I like that liquid surfaces one. Just maybe you w...   Jul 1 2019, 06:02 PM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jul 1 2019, 07:02 PM) I li...   Jul 1 2019, 07:37 PM
|- - Webscientist   [quote name='ngunn' date='Jul 1 2019, ...   Jul 1 2019, 08:54 PM
|- - JRehling   Beautiful painting, ngunn! First I was struck ...   Jul 1 2019, 09:15 PM
- - titanicrivers   What a superb creation ngunn! I really like t...   Jul 1 2019, 07:12 PM
- - ngunn   I was thinking banks of icy shingle strewn here an...   Jul 1 2019, 07:36 PM
- - vjkane   I've added a 200 km scale bar and a 200 km rad...   Jul 2 2019, 02:49 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jul 2 2019, 06:49 AM) The...   Jul 2 2019, 03:40 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Jul 2 2019, 08:40 AM)...   Jul 2 2019, 04:14 PM
- - atomoid   ...Dragonfly would advance 10 km per flight. Assum...   Jul 2 2019, 10:49 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (atomoid @ Jul 2 2019, 02:49 PM) .....   Jul 3 2019, 03:02 PM
|- - JRehling   This is probably already in everyone's conscio...   Jul 3 2019, 08:47 PM
- - climber   Did you notice that launch will be 29 years after ...   Jul 3 2019, 10:27 PM
- - elakdawalla   The launch being 1 Saturn year after Huygens is so...   Jul 25 2019, 05:06 PM
- - Decepticon   What is the minimum number of propellers needed to...   Jul 26 2019, 07:40 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Jul 26 2019, 03:40 AM...   Jul 26 2019, 11:22 AM
- - Jaro_in_Montreal   With the high atmospheric density and low gravity ...   Aug 19 2019, 01:46 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Jaro_in_Montreal @ Aug 19 2019, 05...   Aug 19 2019, 03:07 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Jaro_in_Montreal @ Aug 19 2019, 06...   Aug 19 2019, 07:41 PM
|- - vjkane   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 19 2019, 12:41 PM)...   Aug 20 2019, 06:23 AM
- - djellison   The great thing about Titan EDL...you've got P...   Aug 20 2019, 03:47 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 20 2019, 11:47 AM)...   Aug 21 2019, 01:49 AM
- - mrpotatomoto   Is there any risk that Dragonfly's landing ski...   Sep 4 2019, 10:01 PM
- - centsworth_II   I imagine that the skids, not being heated, would...   Sep 4 2019, 10:37 PM
|- - mrpotatomoto   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Sep 4 2019, 11:37 ...   Sep 4 2019, 11:08 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (mrpotatomoto @ Sep 4 2019, 07:08 P...   Sep 5 2019, 01:53 AM
- - HSchirmer   Two quick questions- First - Sonar? Some quadcopt...   Sep 4 2019, 11:03 PM
|- - Explorer1   QUOTE (HSchirmer @ Sep 4 2019, 06:03 PM) ...   Sep 5 2019, 12:37 AM
|- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 5 2019, 01:37 AM) ...   Sep 5 2019, 02:21 AM
- - nprev   Gonna guess here that additional moving parts besi...   Sep 5 2019, 02:00 AM
- - mcaplinger   From https://dragonfly.jhuapl.edu/News-and-Resou.....   Sep 5 2019, 06:33 AM
- - HSchirmer   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 5 2019, 06:33 AM)...   Sep 5 2019, 01:04 PM
- - JRehling   The precise composition of Titan's surface is ...   Sep 6 2019, 03:59 AM
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