Northern Light, Canadian Project Options

[Phil Stooke]

Don't get your undergarments in a tangle, people.

The Canadian Space Agency has funded several concept studies. Universities and industry are putting together studies of several possible missions. I'm in one called PRIME, a Phobos mission. This is another. It's only a study. If the numbers are nonsense it won't happen. In our case, of course, the numbers are good. But it still won't happen!* But studies are valuable to get ideas out there, to train grad students etc., and often a bit of one study and a bit of another will actually get used in a third.

Look at all the Moon studies we've had recently - MoonLITE, Moonraker, Lunarex, MoonTWINS... how many of those will fly? But out of them comes an idea or a bit of equipment which eventually gets onto a flight project. It was the same even back in the Apollo days.

Phil


* well, it might...

[SteveM]

... But studies are valuable to get ideas out there, to train grad students etc., and often a bit of one study and a bit of another will actually get used in a third....

Phil,

You've put your finger on the real value of Northern Light, but somehow this conceptual project has grown to the point that it's developers have released a launch date to the local press.

Steve

[Phil Stooke]

Because Mars's orbit is quite elliptical compared with Earth's, the mass you can send with a given launcher varies from opposition to opposition. So a mission plan will often refer to a specific launch period.

The real problem here is the inability (mostly on the part of the press) to distinguish between a study and a funded flight opportunity. Look at all the Mars Scout ideas floating around as well - very detailed studies tied to specific time frames, but most will never fly. There's nothing wrong with the study - just don't treat it like an actual mission plan. If it was to be developed, a more realistic budget would soon emerge.

Phil

[TheChemist]

On the other hand, recent press material (Aug. 23, 2007) from York University, the lead academic institution for the project, implied the target date was still active with a helicopter drop test of the EDLS scheduled for September.

Steve

Thoth on the other hand has this in its company news page :
"April 2005: First successful droptest of Mars-lander technology in Canada.
Northern Light successfully deployed with EDL parachute and non-bouncing airbag technology."

Phil:
Such studies are extremely valuable and will help breed the new generation of planetary scientists, we all agree on that.
Maybe the PI should reduce the PR (he is also president of Thoth) and focus on getting his numbers and dates sorted in more realistic terms.
[BTW, I lived in Canada for two years and I am fond of everything canadian.]

[djellison]

Don't down on the PR - just be realistic on a proposed budget. Great lessons to learn, but one of those lessons is realistic budgeting


Doug

[nprev]

[BTW, I lived in Canada for two years and I am fond of everything canadian.]

Never lived there, but been there many times; nothin' but love for my most excellent neighbors! Nothing I'd like better then to see a Canadian Mars mission, too.

Quick story: There I was in Goose Bay, Newfoundland, February, freezing my unmentionables off while trying to fix a C-141 radar altimeter problem. All by myself, the aircrew was back at the hotel in crew rest. The airport people came out to check on me not once but several times with hot coffee and even once some soup...wow. That was just beyond nice of them.

[ustrax]

You've put your finger on the real value of Northern Light, but somehow this conceptual project has grown to the point that it's developers have released a launch date to the local press.

Steve

And during this month we can wait for some news about it...:
"Next month (September), the York team will publicly test the entry, descent and landing system, dropping a prototype lander from a helicopter to simulate landing on Mars. The university says it has passed crash-tests held privately in the past.
The lander is to deploy a parachute and airbags, descend at 55 kilometres an hour, bounce safely to a stop on the university's soccer field, and open up solar panels."...I expect it to score a goal...without being offside...

EDITED: I've contacted Quine, he agreed to answer some questions, if all goes well I hope to have his presence tomorrow at spacEurope.

[ustrax]

The real problem here is the inability (mostly on the part of the press) to distinguish between a study and a funded flight opportunity.

Phil, I believe that in this case the press limits itself to release what comes from the responsible ones...
I'll post a Q'n'A tomorrow at spacEurope with Northern Light PI, Brendan Quine, where he literally says the following:

"We are planning for a 2009 launch. We believe that
this is achievable given the work status thus far."

He said it, I have not altered a word...

He also speaks about several aspects including the Beaver rover, propulsion, data acquiring, what is being done by now and clarifies the $20K myth...

EDITED: It is already posted. What do you guys think of my headers? Beautiful I know...

[Drkskywxlt]

Any news on this mission? It now says working toward a 2012 launch.

http://www.marsrocks.ca/

[Greg Hullender]

Well, a small amount of research shows that Mars is in Toronto, so the trip may not be as far as you think.

http://rd.mars.com/canada/

I'll consider a sample-return mission the next time I visit.

--Greg :-)

[nprev]

@Greg-

Re the 2012 launch date: I'd regard that as highly notional at best, and probably fictional at this point. Notice that they don't cite a booster model, launch site, etc.