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Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Spirit _ El Dorado

Posted by: dot.dk Dec 15 2005, 08:30 PM

Steve has a new update:
http://athena1.cornell.edu/news/mubss/

And it looks like the official name for the Ultreya Abyss now is "El Dorado"

I looked up El Dorado and the poem is actually quite fitting smile.gif

by Edgar Allan Poe
(1849)

Gaily bedight,
A gallant knight,
In sunshine and in shadow,
Had journeyed long,
Singing a song,
In search of Eldorado.

But he grew old-
This knight so bold-
And o'er his heart a shadow
Fell as he found
No spot of ground
That looked like Eldorado.

And, as his strength
Failed him at length,
He met a pilgrim shadow-
"Shadow," said he,
"Where can it be-
This land of Eldorado?"

"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied-
"If you seek for Eldorado!"

Posted by: TheChemist Dec 15 2005, 11:25 PM

Although part of me was hoping Ultreya would somehow come through, I actually find Eldorado quite a suitable choice ...
From http://www.answers.com/topic/el-dorado :
"El Dorado is used figuratively to mean any place of fabulous wealth, a utopian dream, or the land of desire."
Not bad, hey Ustrax ? smile.gif

Posted by: djellison Dec 15 2005, 11:29 PM

It may be subtle and obscure, but there's a nod to the Ultreya phenomenon in there smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: dilo Dec 15 2005, 11:30 PM

A couple of PanCam images from Sol693 are enhanced and stretched here (3x), showing the (probably) best Eldorado/Ultreya view up to now:

 

Posted by: mhoward Dec 15 2005, 11:34 PM

QUOTE (TheChemist @ Dec 15 2005, 11:25 PM)
Although part of me was hoping Ultreya would somehow come through, I actually find Eldorado quite a suitable choice ...
From http://www.answers.com/topic/el-dorado :
"El Dorado is used figuratively to mean any place of fabulous wealth, a utopian dream, or the land of desire."
Not bad, hey Ustrax ?  smile.gif
*


You have to admire the name choice, don't you? Both a reference to a "shadow" and a veiled reference to the hopes and dreams projected on this area. Color me impressed.

Posted by: mars loon Dec 15 2005, 11:39 PM

Wow Dilo,

I think TheChemists quote is on target for your image

" A place of fabulous wealth, a utopian dream, or the land of desire"

Posted by: edstrick Dec 16 2005, 05:49 AM

That semi-regular sand-ripple pattern texture in el Dorado is very similar to areas of the sand sheet on the northwest inside wall of Bonneville crater. Almost certainly much the same material and same processes, and about the same albedo, too.

Posted by: CosmicRocker Dec 16 2005, 06:42 AM

Well I'll be damned! http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Ael+dorado

It may be a coincidence, but it sure does look like a veiled reference to Ultreya. smile.gif Far out. I've been a bit of a harsh critic in discussions of Ultreya's geologic characteristics in the past, but I must admit that I have always shared Ustrax's quixotic vision of exploration. He should be pleased.

Posted by: dvandorn Dec 16 2005, 06:55 AM

It concerns me that Squyres says in his latest update that, after Comanche, they have time to check out either Allegheny or El Dorado, but not both, before they have to high-tail it over onto the north-facing slope of McCool Hill for the winter.

Does this mean they're NOT going to investigate Home Plate and the Pitcher's Mound?

I don't like the sound of that at ALL...

-the other Doug

Posted by: atomoid Dec 16 2005, 08:45 AM

yes, now im cornfused, put-put around on part of mcCool hill for the winter? i though this was the one-mars-year anniversary, and just like splashdown one mars year ago, its prime-time to go exploring with many months of fall left to go... what did we do last mars year this time? we press onward to columbia hills, we didnt kick it on the north face of bonneville for the winter? am i missing something?

Posted by: Bill Harris Dec 16 2005, 08:56 AM

I was amused with the formal naming of this feature. Although some of the image interpretation was, uh, a bit off the wall at times, you do have to admire enthusiasm and persistence. I had grave doubts about the "abyss" part from the get-go, but it was clear that the Ultreya feature was interesting and possibly important.

El Diablo, the name fits and the legend continues... biggrin.gif

--Bill

Posted by: dvandorn Dec 16 2005, 09:19 AM

Ummm... El Dorado, Bill. Not El Diablo.

Although, maybe El Kabong would have been more appropriate...

-the other Doug

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 09:44 AM

QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 15 2005, 11:29 PM)
It may be subtle and obscure, but there's a nod to the Ultreya phenomenon in there smile.gif

Doug
*


Let me just tell you that I am floating wieghtless in space with the choice of the name.
You are 100% correct Doug, there is a very strong nod to Ultreya in El Dorado...
I can tell you that, at this moment, reading the poem and some other words I received, that helped understand the election of the name, I feel an immense, IMMENSE joy.

El Dorado...We have arrived!
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Bert Dec 16 2005, 09:44 AM

QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 16 2005, 06:55 AM)
... they have time to check out either Allegheny or El Dorado, but not both, before they have to high-tail it over onto the north-facing slope of McCool Hill for the winter.

SNIP

I don't like the sound of that at ALL...
*

This should come as no surprise when keeping in mind this discussion from the end of August:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=1314&view=findpost&p=18384

Posted by: Bert Dec 16 2005, 09:48 AM

QUOTE (atomoid @ Dec 16 2005, 08:45 AM)
what did we do last mars year this time? we press onward to columbia hills, we didnt kick it on the north face of bonneville for the winter? am i missing something?
*

The shadow of Husband Hill is what makes the difference this time, IMHO.
(This is just a wild guess, I have no hard numbers to prove it, like sun angles etc...)

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Dec 16 2005, 06:42 AM)
Well I'll be damned!  http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Ael+dorado

It may be a coincidence, but it sure does look like a veiled reference to Ultreya.  smile.gif  Far out.  I've been a bit of a harsh critic in discussions of Ultreya's geologic characteristics in the past, but I must admit that I have always shared Ustrax's quixotic vision of exploration.  He should be pleased.
*


There are no such things as coincidences... smile.gif
Read the poem carefuly, there's Ultreya all over! biggrin.gif
And...CosmicRocker...'quixotic vision of exploration'...I just loved that.
Thank you.

Posted by: Bert Dec 16 2005, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 16 2005, 09:44 AM)
I can tell you that, at this moment, reading the poem and some other words I received, that helped understand the election of the name, I feel an immense, IMMENSE joy.
*


The mention of "pilgrim" in the poem makes it pretty obvious.
Congratulations Ustrax, a previously undiscovered feature on Mars has been named like it's named because of you!
mars.gif ohmy.gif biggrin.gif

Now you're playing in the same league as Vasco da Gama & Ferdinand Magellan.
Cheers!

Posted by: djellison Dec 16 2005, 10:14 AM

I'm still waiting for Erebus to be renamed to Albert, but hey smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 11:29 AM

Dear forum participants, followers of Ultreya saga...
I see the naming of the feature as El Dorado as a reference to all of us, who have been following this incredible mission with passion and will to learn and discover, so I believe that Steve Squyres won't mind if I transcribe here the explanation he gave for the choosing of such an inspiring name for generations to come.
And, let me add, never a poem fitted so well...

So, directly from the man in charge, here it is why:

'Hello: A couple of months ago, when I was in England, I had a talk with a gentleman named Doug Ellison in which he told me that you had suggested the name "Ultreya" for a dark feature on the south side of Husband Hill, and that the name had caught on among a community of Mars enthusiasts on the Internet. I subsequently took a look at the online forum that Doug started, and I read some of the posts there by you and others. I wanted to let you know that while we have used our normal process for assigning a name to this feature, the name that we chose -- El Dorado -- was in part inspired by your posts.

The name was partly taken from a poem by the American poet Edgar Alan Poe that seemed particularly relevant to our current strategic situation with the rover. But I also got the sense that Ultreya had become something of a symbol of hope for future exploration for you and for others in the Internet community. And El Dorado is a name that I intended to be similar in its implications. To quote from the Wikipedia article on El Dorado: "El Dorado is also sometimes used as a metaphor to represent an ultimate prize or 'Holy Grail' that one might spend their life seeking. It could represent true love, heaven, happiness, or success. It is used sometimes as a figure of speech to represent something much sought after that may not even exist, or at least may not ever be found." To me, that sounded very similar to the meaning that you've ascribed to Ultreya.

So, I'm sorry that we didn't use your name, but I hope you'll be pleased that you helped inspire the name that we gave it. I admire the enthusiasm and the spirit of exploration with which you've been following the mission.

Best wishes,

Steve Squyres'


Here, among us...This is a great day, isn't it?... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Toma B Dec 16 2005, 11:42 AM

Amazing!!!!!! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
Ustrax where did you get this text from???

You received a PM from Steve Squyres or what ???

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 11:44 AM

QUOTE (Toma B @ Dec 16 2005, 11:42 AM)
Amazing!!!!!! smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif
Ustrax where did you get this text from???
*


Steve sent it to me on e-mail...
Now I ask, did he had to do it?
No way!

Posted by: Tesheiner Dec 16 2005, 12:22 PM

blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif

Ustrax, that's really impressive!!!
Estou emocionado.

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 12:29 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Dec 16 2005, 12:22 PM)
blink.gif  blink.gif  blink.gif  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  blink.gif  blink.gif  blink.gif

Ustrax, that's really impressive!!!
Estou emocionado.
*


Tesheiner...When I read it my eyes filled up with a strange salty liquid...Like the sea my forefathers explored centuries ago...To me this means the same as receiving a letter from Henry the Navigator...
Steve Squyres just made my day in a very special way.

Posted by: mars loon Dec 16 2005, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 16 2005, 12:29 PM)
Tesheiner...When I read it my eyes filled up with a strange salty liquid...Like the sea my forefathers explored centuries ago...To me this means the same as receiving a letter from Henry the Navigator...
Steve Squyres just made my day in a very special way.
*

Ustrax,

Estou emocionado.

That is an impressive note from Steve.

Here is a brief quote from a message I recently got from Jim Bell:

"I'm thrilled to see other folks out there work with the images and make their own mosaics, etc."

So, Congratulations to you on this very SPECIAL DAY !!!!

Posted by: chris Dec 16 2005, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 16 2005, 11:29 AM)
Here, among us...This is a great day, isn't it?... rolleyes.gif
*


Ustrax, your persistence with your idea, and then the good grace with which you acknowledged its demise do you credit. This is well deserved. It also says a great deal about Steve Squyres and the MER team.

I'm getting all emotional... blink.gif

Chris

Posted by: Bill Harris Dec 16 2005, 01:27 PM

QUOTE
Ummm... El Dorado, Bill. Not El Diablo.


Now, was that freudian or what... biggrin.gif

--Bill



PS-- congratulations, Ustrax.

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (chris @ Dec 16 2005, 01:26 PM)
Ustrax, your persistence with your idea, and then the good grace with which you acknowledged its demise do you credit. This is well deserved. It also says a great deal about Steve Squyres and the MER team.

I'm getting all emotional...  blink.gif

Chris
*


Chris...It does it does in a way we will not forget, a great great attitude from Steve when he didn't in anyway had to justify before us the non-choosing of Ultreya...And as I was saying on the other forum...
'...Maybe if that was an abyss they would call it Ultreya, who knows?...Don't forget that I have no scientific background and there is a lot of people in the world who deserve to have their name on Mars or name a place on Mars and I, just a guy from Portugal fueled by passion, had the Honour of inspiring the choosing of such a brilliant (and so super-mega-well expressed on that poem) name...Think about it...
...I've just lighten the bonfire where all of us have danced around.
I am VERY proud of ALL of you in the web community.
And I could not pass without giving thanks to Doug Ellisonfor putting Steve in contact with the Ultreya subject.

Posted by: RNeuhaus Dec 16 2005, 02:48 PM

Ustrax, Many congratulations to you! I am very proud that Steve is aware of our forum.

The name El Dorado sounds to me somewhat funny because, let me say to you: As you know that that dark southern slope of Columbia Hill is seen as a suspicious place, full of traps and tricks but at the same time inside of the dark sand might have some hidden gold, in spanish means the same as El Dorado due to its gold color. So I tought that name strickes me the idea that under the most difficult sites will also lead to be the most surprising discoveries.

That is the nature equilibrium.

Rodolfo

Posted by: djellison Dec 16 2005, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 16 2005, 11:29 AM)
...when I was in England..


Steve was here. Damn....I must have missed him...

wink.gif

Doug

Posted by: aldo12xu Dec 16 2005, 05:02 PM

Congratulations, Ustrax!! It is a special moment, indeed. It's a great example how inclusive the MER mission has been under Steve's direction. He has really made it seem like the mission belongs to everybody, not just NASA or JPL or the USA.

Posted by: Reckless Dec 16 2005, 05:22 PM

Well done Ustrax and thanks to Doug Ellison it's good to get a mention from the MER PI even for us lower down (but trying to climb) the stratigraphic layers of this great forum
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Reckless

Posted by: ustrax Dec 16 2005, 09:26 PM

According to a very SSpecial update...

Q: Now, a concrete question...Is there any idea of what might be the origin of the dark sand at El Dorado?


A: Good question. That's one of the things we hope to learn by going there, if that's what we decide to do. My best guess is that it's sort of an eolian cul-de-sac, where the local configuration of terrain and prevailing wind flow means that sand can get in but can't get out again. If you look carefully, you'll see that there are several similar dark sand patches on the northern side of Clark Hill, in similar geometric configurations.

Q: Even now, looking at the recent images it looks to me that the sand filled an empty space and not just 'climbed the gentle hill slope, but probably I'm wrong.


A: I think that it probably just climbed a hill slope, but we should get a better handle on that once we're in position to do some good Pancam observations on it. As I write this we're planning the approach to Comanche (actually, to the smaller rock just north of Comanche). We'll execute the approach on Sol 697, and by the time we're in position to do IDD work we should also be in position to get our first decent look at El Dorado. Then we'll see what we see.

Posted by: dot.dk Dec 16 2005, 09:38 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 16 2005, 09:26 PM)
According to a very SSpecial update...
*


So now your are corresponding directly with the master or what!? smile.gif

Can't you ask him to come in here instead and post some interesting tidbits? wink.gif

Posted by: Bill Harris Dec 16 2005, 10:10 PM

QUOTE
sort of an eolian cul-de-sac


That is my favorite supposition, too. Just the right combination of wind direction, wind velocity, terrain and particle density happen to coexist and the dark sand collects and the light dust goes. You've seen that here, north of Clark Hill and in a couple of other spots in these hills. And you've also got the dark rock like at Comanche and First Base, so there is a close by source for dark sand.

We'll see what we see when we see it...

--Bill

Posted by: djellison Dec 16 2005, 10:19 PM

I can well understand why Steve wouldnt want to visit and post here in person. Imagine Bono posting on a U2 forum wink.gif

Doug

Posted by: dilo Dec 16 2005, 10:55 PM

This is another 3x stretch, now from NavCam mosaic of Sol694 (see full http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=1854&view=findpost&p=31785).


I would like to dedicate this Eldorado view to Sergio Leone, who probably liked to shot a "spaghetti western" on this location (a little bit expensive trip for cast, however tongue.gif ).

Posted by: Mizar Dec 16 2005, 11:08 PM

Hi there..
I'm a very newbie here... but I have to say:
This is the result of a vision. Great explorers earlier have visions.
We can read of their efforts in our historic books.
Thanks ustrax and Doug, and all others in this amazing internet community here!
And not only here, this effort send rumours along the whole planet!
Sure Steve understand that. I'm quite sure of that.

And I have to say: What a day !

Posted by: dilo Dec 16 2005, 11:20 PM

Welcome Mizar, beautiful words! smile.gif

Posted by: bergadder Dec 16 2005, 11:46 PM

Congratulations, Ustrax

Been doing some serious lurking on this forum over the last few months. Every day I get home I must get me ‘fix’ of Unmannedspaceflight.com.

I think you Ustrax and other members of the community, who show the world the passion for adventure, the human need to explore, to learn and create. I know I get a lot of that right here, so thanks to you all.

I believe from what we see and read from Steve, we find that same passion.
To Steve, (who I am sure drops by this community on a regular basis, based on some answers on his web site to questions on this forum) a very big thank-you. Thanks for the passion you bring to this world .

Posted by: ustrax Dec 17 2005, 01:46 AM

Bill Harris...That was my first supposition, but where youread aeloian read aquifer...Thta goes a longway from MER's eam supposition...
djellison...can you?...I don't know...maybe...
dilo...it is curious to heard aboutEl Dorado when herzog's Quest for El Dorado is one of my favourite movies ever...Can't avoid to make a comparison between the crazy Kinski and the looney Ustrax...Just can't...sorry...
Oh Mizar...Brother in passion...it is so good to read on this house of knowledge!...
bergadder...I think we have to thank Doug the entrance of the MER team members on this forum...

Posted by: mars loon Dec 17 2005, 02:08 AM

a looney request.

while we ponder "El Dorado" and "Ultreya", what is the meaning behind "Ustrax" and the source of his passions and poetry?

Posted by: Bill Harris Dec 17 2005, 02:58 AM

I dunno, but here's his blog: http://ultreyamars.blogspot.com/ . We can ponder that whilst he explains himself...

--Bill

Posted by: glennwsmith Dec 17 2005, 04:52 AM

Doug, Ustrax, and all --

I love it!

And dot.dk, what is your background that you knew about this poem ?!?

Glenn

Posted by: dot.dk Dec 17 2005, 05:35 AM

QUOTE (glennwsmith @ Dec 17 2005, 04:52 AM)
And dot.dk, what is your background that you knew about this poem ?!?

Glenn
*


I only knew it through google biggrin.gif

Posted by: CosmicRocker Dec 17 2005, 07:24 AM

QUOTE (Bert @ Dec 16 2005, 03:48 AM)
The shadow of Husband Hill is what makes the difference this time, IMHO.
(This is just a wild guess, I have no hard numbers to prove it, like sun angles etc...)
*

Interesting thought... I wouldn't want to make too much out of a reference in a poem, but the explorer did meet a shadow, did he not? Maybe it's the shadow of the hill, or maybe it's a generalized shadow of winter.

*****************

Steve's recent "quick" update was interesting. Just a few days after saying they were heading for Home Plate, he says it's either Allegheny or El Dorado. Is Allegheny ridge that linear ridge with the mesas, trailing away from Home Plate? If they climb that, they would have good views of El Dorado and Home Plate, wouldn't they? And Home Plate would then be on a line between there and McCool Hill. Maybe Home Plate is not written off just yet. At least, I hope not.

Quoting SS:
"Once we've done our work at Comanche, then we have a really important decision to make. We need to keep moving quickly if we're going to get to McCool Hill and its sunny north-facing slopes by winter. We have two very enticing targets ahead of us after Comanche, and we've got to pick one of the two... there isn't time for both. One is a ridge off to the southeast that we've named Allegheny Ridge. The other is a large patch of dark sand off to the southwest that (with some inspiration from Edgar Alan Poe) we've named El Dorado. We'll get to Comanche, take pictures of both, and then pick one of the two... probably sometime next week. The seasons are changing rapidly at Gusev, and time is of the essence."

They have been moving forward at a pretty good pace, since descending Haskin's. I would have thought there would be time to go for a Home Run and still make it to the dugout before winter. Comanche looks pretty different. Gotta stop to thwack it. It sounds like they want to get well up onto McCool Hill before winter.

Posted by: general Dec 17 2005, 08:46 AM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Dec 17 2005, 08:24 AM)
Steve's recent "quick" update was interesting.  Just a few days after saying they were heading for Home Plate, he says it's either Allegheny or El Dorado.  Is Allegheny ridge that linear ridge with the mesas, trailing away from Home Plate?  If they climb that, they would have good views of El Dorado and Home Plate, wouldn't they?  And Home Plate would then be on a line between there and McCool Hill.  Maybe Home Plate is not written off just yet.  At least, I hope not.



According to the latest Spirit traverse maps (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/tm-spirit/index.html), Allegheny Ridge is located halfway between Spirit's present location and Home Plate:

 

Posted by: mars loon Dec 17 2005, 01:15 PM

QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Dec 17 2005, 07:24 AM)
Steve's recent "quick" update was interesting.  Just a few days after saying they were heading for Home Plate, he says it's either Allegheny or El Dorado.  Is Allegheny ridge that linear ridge with the mesas, trailing away from Home Plate?  If they climb that, they would have good views of El Dorado and Home Plate, wouldn't they?  And Home Plate would then be on a line between there and McCool Hill.  Maybe Home Plate is not written off just yet.  At least, I hope not....
*

At the Hayden this past Monday (12/12/05), Steve said that Home Plate is the next big target, with the goal of reaching it by about sol 750. He showed a cool picture of the approach to Comanche

By about Sol 800, he said they MUST be on the sunny north facing slope of McCool Hill. Gotta maximize energy output with the fast approaching winter or Spirit could die without power to the heaters. sad.gif According to Steve, the unthinkable (unponderable !! ) almost happened last winter. Spirit is currently at about 600 watt hours.

So our baby has to get moving !!! pancam.gif wheel.gif

Posted by: mhoward Dec 17 2005, 04:09 PM

Here it is in all its glory, I guess: on the right

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=74523346&size=o http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=74523837&context=photostream&size=o

Posted by: stewjack Dec 17 2005, 08:46 PM

Comanche is big!

From memory

Comanche is about 10 meters distance.
Comanche is about 15 meters wide
and mayby 3- 5 meters high


Commanche Flicker
Warnig: File Size 500 Kb

[attachment=2888:attachment]

Posted by: stewjack Dec 17 2005, 09:12 PM

A glimpse of El Dorado?

This flicker is composed of the two navcam images immediately to the right of my previous flicker. Comanche, or the main portion of Comanche, is partially visible on the left of this flicker. We are looking through a "saddle" between two outcrops. What do you see?


El Dorado navcam flicker
Warning File size 700 Kb


Posted by: Reckless Dec 17 2005, 10:21 PM

Two great flickers Stewjack
Keep them coming.

Reckless biggrin.gif wink.gif

Posted by: Gonzz Dec 18 2005, 04:26 AM

whoa, just read it, fantastico, parabens Ustrax, congratulations

Posted by: CosmicRocker Dec 18 2005, 07:14 AM

Regarding Home Plate. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. I'm "on the road" and not able to keep up with all of the details. Do we really know that _that_ is Allegheny Ridge?

QUOTE (stewjack @ Dec 17 2005, 02:46 PM)
Comanche is big!
*

biggrin.gif It is big, and it's Freakin' Red, too, like Steve said. Might that mean that this outcrop is showing signs of secondary alteration, and not as much pristine olivine as we have observed recently? The weathering of this outcrop also flagged it as something to take a peek at.

Posted by: mars loon Dec 18 2005, 02:00 PM

QUOTE (stewjack @ Dec 17 2005, 08:46 PM)
Comanche is big!

From memory

Comanche is about 10 meters distance.
Comanche is about 15  meters wide
and mayby 3- 5 meters high
*


Comanche is about 2 1/2 meters high
according to Steve Squyres comment at the Hayden on 12/12/05

Comanche is big!

Thank you for those glorious pictures and flickers

Posted by: stewjack Dec 18 2005, 10:40 PM

QUOTE (mars loon @ Dec 18 2005, 10:00 AM)
Comanche is about 2 1/2 meters high
according to Steve Squyres comment at the Hayden on 12/12/05

Comanche is big!

Thank you for those glorious pictures and flickers
*


I can't argue with the 2 1/2 meter height measurement. My width measurement was not done at the same point as my multiple distance measurements. Consequently, the parallax converters width number varied with each distance measurement. I'm still a little surprised that my guesstimated height was that far off, but at least it is taller than Spirits mast! wink.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 11:12 AM

Like I was saying on the Comanche thread...:

With Doug's and Nico's anaglyph we can see that behind Comanche the terrain descents abruptaly...If you compare the distance to Gusev's floor from the patch of terrain right aside Comanche and the one where the dark sand rules there's is a great difference over there...It looks like El Dorado is divided in three diferent areas, the dark sand unit, a more homogenous area with almost no boulders in it and, closer to Comanche a depression with more irregular terrain...
So...the dark dune field is just a part of the formar Ultreya shadow...I guess, like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/ustrax/123.jpg

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 03:57 PM

El Dorado fully at sight!

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2005-12-19/

biggrin.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 04:02 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 19 2005, 03:57 PM)
El Dorado fully at sight!

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2005-12-19/

biggrin.gif
*


Anaglyph!
Anaglyph!
Anaglyph!

I never thought that this day would arrive...
blink.gif

Posted by: RNeuhaus Dec 19 2005, 04:13 PM

From Commanche rock to El Dorado is very flat, perhaps one of the biggest naked outcrop I have ever seen. From here to El Dorado, the transverse would be very easy, perhaps, maybe, one non-stop up to the border of El Dorado to do MI on the dark sand. smile.gif

Rodolfo

Posted by: djellison Dec 19 2005, 04:20 PM

I'd agree - it'd be the work of 2 sols at most to get there, easy driving on good terrain. Then head SE to the next target.

Doug

Posted by: kanalje Dec 19 2005, 04:28 PM

I can only say, besides "Greetings", that i shall be happy if the first image showing ULTREYA in full view shows as just a big slab of blur and pasted rocks, generated by evil NASA-computers! THEN you know something's there that i'd be interested in smile.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 04:36 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/ustrax/rted.jpg

cool.gif

Posted by: Tesheiner Dec 19 2005, 04:39 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 19 2005, 04:57 PM)
El Dorado fully at sight!
*


(280k)

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 04:40 PM

Thanks A LOT Tesheiner...
I was expecting that!
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Burmese Dec 19 2005, 04:50 PM

I think it is a given that they will check out Homeplate. Nowhere do they say they will not and it has been a clear 'major' target for some time. Steve's update is just not clear on the point that they are choosing between 'minor' landforms to examine on the way to Homeplate. Heck, if all they did was check out El Dorado and then head to McCool hill, they'd be there well before winter set in.

Posted by: djellison Dec 19 2005, 04:52 PM

Yes - I think the decision between El-D and the other target is simply which to visit BEFORE going to HP, and that there isnt really time to visit both as they are in different directions.

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 19 2005, 04:52 PM)
Yes - I think the decision between El-D and the other target is simply which to visit BEFORE going to HP, and that there isnt really time to visit both as they are in different directions.

Doug
*


Any opinions around where should Spirit be headed?
My vote goes to El Dorado...
Look at all the outcrop at disposal in such, at least looks like, easy path...
The outcrops on the other target seems a bit more difficult to reach...

Posted by: Burmese Dec 19 2005, 05:02 PM

Is there actually anyone here in favor of the 'other' target? smile.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Burmese @ Dec 19 2005, 05:02 PM)
Is there actually anyone here in favor of the 'other' target?  smile.gif
*


Allegheny Ridge...Allegheny Ridge is the 'other' target...
rolleyes.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 19 2005, 08:40 PM

http://appl.nasa.gov/ask/issues/16/overview/16_resources_directorsdesk.html

Well...ustrax bows to their memory and feels very small knowing that, somehow,
life made his terrestrial path cross on another planet the path of heroes.
I told Steve in a kind of joking way that I was going back to studies on a different area from the one I've followed, and now that is a promise.
To honour the crew of the sts107.

http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/Documents/sts107-crew-columbia.jpg

Posted by: atomoid Dec 19 2005, 10:32 PM

my person favorite shot so far of the Ultreya http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2N187979509EFFAKE1P0735R0M1.JPG.html
and this closeup shot of a http://mars.lyle.org/imagery/2P187980990EFFAKE1P2421R2M1.JPG.html of Ultreya (oop um, el Dorado) sand presumably in the wind shadow of Comanche, where the eddies pile it up.
This is one really illustrative case that the dark sands (dust) is much finer than the base sands...

Posted by: Nirgal Dec 19 2005, 10:36 PM

Hi all,

I finally recovered from a computer crash having kept me busy installing new hardware and a new image processing environment for the last couple of weeks ...
(fortunately, I could recover most of my data from backups ...)
So here is the first image rendered on the new equipment:
... my color interpretation of one of Spirit's latest "Eldorado"- Navcam-views smile.gif


http://mitglied.lycos.de/user73289/misc/spirit_n694a_col_b.jpg

Posted by: mars loon Dec 20 2005, 05:09 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 19 2005, 10:36 PM)
Hi all,

I finally recovered from a computer crash having kept me busy installing new hardware and a new image processing environment for the last couple of weeks ...
(fortunately, I could recover most of my data from backups ...)
*

Welcome back !! Wilkommen !! mars.gif smile.gif

Posted by: dilo Dec 20 2005, 05:52 AM

Finally, you're back, Nirgal!
I'm happy!!! smile.gif

Posted by: Zeke4ther Dec 20 2005, 06:22 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 19 2005, 06:36 PM)
So here is the first image rendered on the new equipment:
... my color interpretation of one of Spirit's latest "Eldorado"- Navcam-views smile.gif
[


Awsome image! ohmy.gif smile.gif Great Work!!

It reminds me of bones of a great beast buried in the sand. tongue.gif

Posted by: Nix Dec 20 2005, 09:25 AM

glad you got your rig fixed to continue your work Nirgal!!

ps could you mail me your address for the newspaper?

Nico smile.gif

Posted by: Tesheiner Dec 20 2005, 09:28 AM

Yesterday, when looking to those fresh sol 697 navcam pictures I simply thought it would be a great panorama for colorization... but where was Nirgal?

Welcome back.

PS: Do you wanna try with 697's images?

Posted by: ustrax Dec 20 2005, 09:29 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 19 2005, 10:36 PM)
Hi all,

I finally recovered from a computer crash having kept me busy installing new hardware and a new image processing environment for the last couple of weeks ...
(fortunately, I could recover most of my data from backups ...)
So here is the first image rendered on the new equipment:
... my color interpretation of one of Spirit's latest "Eldorado"- Navcam-views smile.gif

*


It is very good to see you back in action! I was missing your Mars vision...
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nix Dec 20 2005, 09:33 AM

QUOTE (kanalje @ Dec 19 2005, 06:28 PM)
I can only say, besides "Greetings", that i shall be happy if the first image showing ULTREYA in full view shows as just a big slab of blur and pasted rocks, generated by evil NASA-computers! THEN you know something's there that i'd be interested in  smile.gif
*


OR -maybe those 'pasted' rocks are inside your head.

Ever thought of that, I guess not

Nico smile.gif

Posted by: Toma B Dec 20 2005, 01:19 PM

Autostiched panorama : Sol 697


Posted by: Tesheiner Dec 20 2005, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Toma B @ Dec 20 2005, 02:19 PM)
Autostiched panorama : Sol 697
*


TomaB, try the following settings on autostitch:
- Gain compensation: on
- Auto straighten: off
- Orientation (theta, phi, psi): 0, -3 (*), -11 (**)

*: common value for pancam images
**: rotation to be applied to the second source image

smile.gif

Posted by: Toma B Dec 20 2005, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Dec 20 2005, 04:30 PM)
TomaB, try the following settings on autostitch:
- Gain compensation: on
- Auto straighten: off
- Orientation (theta, phi, psi): 0, -3 (*), -11 (**)

*: common value for pancam images
**: rotation to be applied to the second source image

smile.gif
*

Thank you Tesheiner I will... smile.gif

Edit:
I hope this one looks better...I'm sorry for the first one (it isn't worthy of this forum) sad.gif

Posted by: mhoward Dec 20 2005, 03:40 PM

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=75592425&size=l http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=75592448&size=l

Posted by: djellison Dec 20 2005, 04:01 PM

I cant help thinking of a Mid '90's TV series called El Dorado...it was utterly TERRIBLE smile.gif

Doug

Posted by: kanalje Dec 20 2005, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (NIX @ Dec 20 2005, 09:33 AM)
OR -maybe those 'pasted' rocks are inside your head.

Ever thought of that, I guess not

Nico smile.gif
*



Yup, yup. You could be dead right! But i'm at a stage where i actually value input from my head, and more so, from my intuition, MORE than "unbiased", unchallanged data. But hey, we're all on an individual journey with this mars thing, i just wanna mix it up some.
I must say though, that some of the work, post production and general "cleverness" of some of these threads and their authors is and are really impressive!

/Nisse

Posted by: sdavies Dec 20 2005, 06:11 PM

Hi. I'm a constant reader of y'all's comments.
Here's something simple that might amuse you:

Steve Davies


Posted by: lyford Dec 20 2005, 08:13 PM

Surf's Up!

And http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1898863/a/Eldorado.htm is where I first encountered http://mfile3.akamai.com/14123/wm2/muze.download.akamai.com/2890/us/uswm2/_!/715/99715_1_01.asx?auth=daEcUddbzaQdlagaudsdjdacDc.cnaEc0d4-bdQguJ-Ci-ggdch&aifp=1234&obj=v50923 Though it was on vinyl biggrin.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 20 2005, 08:34 PM

QUOTE (lyford @ Dec 20 2005, 08:13 PM)
Surf's Up!

And http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1898863/a/Eldorado.htm is where I first encountered http://mfile3.akamai.com/14123/wm2/muze.download.akamai.com/2890/us/uswm2/_!/715/99715_1_01.asx?auth=daEcUddbzaQdlagaudsdjdacDc.cnaEc0d4-bdQguJ-Ci-ggdch&aifp=1234&obj=v50923  Though it was on vinyl biggrin.gif
*


My first El Dorado reference comes from here:

http://www.thespinningimage.co.uk/cultfilms/displaycultfilm.asp?reviewid=261

Never thought that one day I would link one of my favourite movies to Mars...
blink.gif

Posted by: Nirgal Dec 20 2005, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Dec 20 2005, 11:28 AM)
Yesterday, when looking to those fresh sol 697 navcam pictures I simply thought it would be a great panorama for colorization... but where was Nirgal?

Welcome back.

PS: Do you wanna try with 697's images?
*


Hi Tes !
here you are .... your wish is my command wink.gif

http://mitglied.lycos.de/user73289/misc/spirit_n697_col_c.jpg

(click on thumbnail for large resolution)

seems that those *literally* out-from-this-world-views that Spirit sends us are getting better all the time !

Posted by: ustrax Dec 20 2005, 08:44 PM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 20 2005, 08:41 PM)
Hi Tes !
here you are .... your wish is my command wink.gif



seems that those *literally* out-from-this-world-views that Spirit sends us are getting better all the time !
*


NIRGAL!!!
That was the IMAGE I've eagered for so long coming from you!
Thaaank you!!!
biggrin.gif

Posted by: ustrax Dec 20 2005, 08:51 PM

QUOTE (mars loon @ Dec 17 2005, 02:08 AM)
a looney request. 

while we ponder "El Dorado" and "Ultreya", what is the meaning behind "Ustrax" and the source of his passions and poetry?
*


mars loon...
„Feuer“: ignis, quoquihabin, ardon, calax, spiridon, rusin, fragon, fumaton, ustrax, uitius, siluleus, aeneon...

The source of passion and poetry? A great joy of being alive and sharing the process and experience od Discover with people who understand it's true meaning.
The source? Ultreya et Sus Eia...Onward and Upward, towards the unknown, towards ourselves...
Nietzche once thought, and fortunately wrote, 'I'm certainly a flame', we all are.
That is my motto while I'm around.

Posted by: Tesheiner Dec 21 2005, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Dec 20 2005, 09:41 PM)
Hi Tes !
here you are .... your wish is my command wink.gif

http://mitglied.lycos.de/user73289/misc/spirit_n697_col_c.jpg

(click on thumbnail for large resolution)

seems that those *literally* out-from-this-world-views that Spirit sends us are getting better all the time !
*


Thanks a lot, Nirgal!
That's a beautiful view. cool.gif

Posted by: Mongo Dec 23 2005, 07:47 PM

This is from today's update by Steve Squyres:

QUOTE
With the Comanche campaign wrapping up, it was decision time... Allegeny Ridge or El Dorado? We had a long meeting about that at mid-week, and the consensus decision was to head for El Dorado. We should begin the drive on about Sol 704, and we're hoping it will go quickly. Expect Spirit to do a lot of driving and (except at El Dorado) not much IDD work in the weeks ahead.


Bill

Posted by: RNeuhaus Dec 23 2005, 08:22 PM

Thanks Bill.

Today Spirits' sol is 702. The sol 704 would be next Sunday. So let us wait until tuesday December 27 for the coming pictures and data.

Merry Christmas

Rodolfo

Posted by: Bill Harris Dec 23 2005, 09:22 PM

From Spirit's Sol 699 Pancam offering, here is an L257 of the El Dorado ripple field and a 4x-vertical exaggeration of the same image.

I'm not as much up on dunes as I should be, but what can be said about these ripples and the mechanical properties of their sand?

--Bill

Posted by: dvandorn Dec 25 2005, 08:11 AM

I can understand why they want to check out El Dorado. Allegheny is yet another in a series of outcrops, some of which we've already looked at and some of which we're planning on looking at as we approach and investigate Home Plate. But El Dorado is representative of a *lot* of dark sand fields seen in the wind shadows of these hills. If we characterize this one, we'll probably be able to characterize them all (at least in general terms).

And it's now close at hand. If it takes only one or two IDD runs to get all the answers about these dark sand fields, we'll be able to scoot on along to Home Plate. That'll take less time overall than another detailed characterization of yet another outcrop...

-the other Doug

Posted by: Myran Dec 25 2005, 03:52 PM

QUOTE
dvandorn said: I can understand why they want to check out El Dorado.


We certainly need to take a closer look, my really first post on this forum was a question if it might be volcanic ash which was my thinking for an explanation back then.
Now we've finally have gotten a good look, it might be less likely but that makes it even more so one reason to try to find out the composition of this material.

Posted by: dvandorn Dec 25 2005, 07:52 PM

Exactly. And if mini-TES can give us a general idea that these dark sand deposits are all of similar composition and are relatively homogenous, we can characterize an entire unit here with a one- or two-stop visit. I think it's a good time investment.

-the other Doug

Posted by: silylene Dec 26 2005, 05:25 PM

I wish we could get closer to the ElDorado dune ripple field. I am still hoping the see if there are any microcraters in Gusev (none seen yet). The dune ripple field would be an excellent surface to produce microcraters (assuming they form from impact).

Posted by: djellison Dec 26 2005, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (silylene @ Dec 26 2005, 05:25 PM)
I wish we could get closer to the ElDorado dune ripple field.


We are...

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=1906

It's the next stop.

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Nov 2 2006, 04:52 PM

blink.gif
There's something making me scratch my head...
I was googling for an old image which I didn't quite recall the name so I just went and typed ustrax because I knew my signature made part of the link...
I found the image I wanted among some other pre-historical stuff but, in the middle of those wacky Ultreya graphics it appeared an image from MOC...
(just google ustrax images and go to the http://images.google.pt/images?q=ustrax&svnum=10&hl=pt-PT&lr=&start=42&sa=N&filter=0...)
How the hell does my nickname is linked to a Mars image posted precisely on the day we had the El Dorado party around here?... ph34r.gif
I've searched on the page for more details but nothing appears...
Wird...But cool... cool.gif

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/2005/11/S12-01993p.gif

EDITED: Hey! If you try with http://images.google.pt/images?svnum=10&hl=pt-PT&lr=&q=djellison+msss it happens the same! smile.gif
Come on guys try with your nicks... ohmy.gif
What's going on here?...

Posted by: ustrax Nov 2 2006, 08:24 PM

QUOTE (ustrax @ Nov 2 2006, 04:52 PM) *
What's going on here?...


Huumm...I guess the answer lays right http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:XI7AwzPnJ1cJ:www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php%3Fact%3DPrint%26client%3Dprinter%26f%3D4%26t%3D1339+S12-01993p&hl=pt-PT&gl=pt&ct=clnk&cd=1...
Anyway...wird conjunction...The only MOC image linked to my nick appears on the day I read Mr. Squyres e-e-mail with the El Dorado explanation...
I have to look at that image carefuly...Maybe there's an abyss in it... tongue.gif

Posted by: ustrax Jan 12 2010, 12:59 PM

Has Eldorado lost its mythical meaning?... smile.gif
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/earth-environment/article6982391.ece

EDITED:
Here's a New Yorker article: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/01/the-city-of-z.html
And the original paper: http://antiquity.ac.uk/ant/083/ant0831084.htm

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