IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Future Planetary Exploration
vjkane
post Oct 20 2008, 07:11 PM
Post #1


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 704
Joined: 22-April 05
Member No.: 351



I've started a new blog on this topic at http://futureplanets.blogspot.com/

This blog supplements UMSF by allowing on topic discussions that include politics and other topics not appropriate here.

The first entry is up with some additional news on the MSL funding and schedule problems.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
machi
post Dec 8 2010, 05:02 PM
Post #2


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 796
Joined: 27-February 08
From: Heart of Europe
Member No.: 4057



Price of Venus mobile explorer is estimated around 10 billion dollars. This is simply too much for any space agency.
Look here: http://sites.nationalacademies.org/SSB/SSB_059331
Another problem is shortcoming of plutonium.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZLD
post Dec 8 2010, 07:34 PM
Post #3


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 555
Joined: 27-September 10
Member No.: 5458



QUOTE (machi @ Dec 8 2010, 06:02 PM) *
Price of Venus mobile explorer is estimated around 10 billion dollars.


Interesting, I hadn't yet heard about this proposal.

A slight correction, though it doesn't change the necessary cost feasibility:

QUOTE
Based on the Price H model and cost analogies during this 5-week study, we estimated at 70% confidence level the VME mission concept total cost of $1.1B to $1.7B (without launch vehicle; $1.9B with launch vehicle). This is beyond the New Frontiers cost limit (assumed to be $750M FY15), but in the low end of the flagship range. Technology-development costs of $90M (to bring new technology to a TRL 6 level) are included in the above mission cost estimate. A tremendous amount of uncertainty exists in the technology development cost, due to the immature nature of most of the essential technologies and unique testing which may not perform as assumed in this report.


So ~$2bn instead but the price is still too high for a mission. They also note in the in the trade tree that wheels, as would be on a Venus rover, introduces too many complexities and a helium balloon-like transfer is instead preferred. I'm a little puzzled by that with as much research as has gone into the four Mars rovers but I'm sure there is a more detailed reason. Regardless, I stand corrected, it likely isn't to happen in the next decade.

A mission I'm quite interested in is a flying drone observer sent to Mars. I can't find the name of the proposal but I was puzzled at the time that they claimed it would be powered by batteries and only last a couple of hours. Meanwhile the Solar Impulse team were releasing news about their first trip around the globe with a successful trip through a full night. I'm very hopeful to see these two technologies joined at some point. What better way to take a lot of data quickly over a vast area than from an aerial vehicle. Among other things, it would allow study of Olympus Mons and Valles Marineris, two very interesting geologic locations that are unlikely to be explored by rovers.

Edit: ARES Platform


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Dec 8 2010, 08:17 PM
Post #4


Founder
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 14431
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



QUOTE (ZLD @ Dec 8 2010, 11:34 AM) *
I'm a little puzzled by that with as much research as has gone into the four Mars rovers but I'm sure there is a more detailed reason.


Think about the surface conditions on Mars. Chilly, dry, but with electrical heaters 'normal' terrestrial electronics and electro-mechanics work ok

That simply isn't true on Venus. I doubt anything of the mobility system of MER would work on Venus. It's just too different.

QUOTE
A mission I'm quite interested in is a flying drone observer sent to Mars. I can't find the name of the proposal but I was puzzled at the time that they claimed it would be powered by batteries and only last a couple of hours.


Batteries for the electronics, a small rocket engine for the

QUOTE
Meanwhile the Solar Impulse team were releasing news about their first trip around the globe with a successful trip through a full night.


Aeronautics on Mars and Earth are very different. Solar Impulse used solar power ( lots of power at Earth ) and a very very efficient airframe

On Mars - the solar power is about half that on Earth ( so already, you're fighting a losing battle ). PLUS - you need an airframe as light and efficient as Solar Impulse just to get off the ground at all, because the air density is so very thin on Mars you have to have an astonishingly efficient airframe travelling at high speed just to generate enough lift to get off the ground.

Solar powered airplanes on Mars are an engineering challenge far far over and above Solar Impuls, and might not even be possible with anything on the engineers shopping list of today.

QUOTE
What better way to take a lot of data quickly over a vast area than from an aerial vehicle. Among other things, it would allow study of Olympus Mons and Valles Marineris, two very interesting geologic locations that are unlikely to be explored by rovers.


How about orbiters? You can take a lot of data, quickly, again and again, mapping those sites That's what killed Ares really, CRISM on MRO producing 6m/pixel hyperspectril Vis-IR mapping spectrometer data, HiRISE producing 25cm/pixel imagery etc etc.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- vjkane   Future Planetary Exploration   Oct 20 2008, 07:11 PM
- - vjkane   A summary of proposed post-MSL Mars missions has b...   Oct 25 2008, 03:14 AM
- - vjkane   New material on down selection of MSL landing site...   Nov 17 2008, 09:21 PM
- - vjkane   I just posted a description of the proposed Io Vol...   Dec 17 2008, 06:59 AM
- - vjkane   NASA has released its plans and options for coveri...   Jan 9 2009, 05:48 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 9 2009, 06:48 PM) NAS...   Jan 21 2009, 06:58 PM
- - vjkane   I just posted a review of two just released planni...   Jan 21 2009, 06:57 AM
- - ngunn   Thanks for posting those with comments there, and ...   Jan 21 2009, 02:20 PM
- - vjkane   I just posted a long summary of future Mars roadma...   Mar 4 2009, 07:23 AM
- - vjkane   Early reports from current Planetary Science Subco...   Jul 11 2009, 05:23 PM
|- - ustrax   Doug, Phil, Stu...guys...a new era has arrived and...   Jul 22 2009, 09:54 PM
- - vjkane   A summary of the newly proposed Venus Flagship mis...   Jul 23 2009, 01:33 AM
- - vjkane   Here's a list of topics posted at Future Plane...   Jul 26 2009, 12:06 AM
- - vjkane   Several new posts this week at FuturePlanets : EJ...   Aug 8 2009, 04:22 PM
- - vjkane   Several new posts on at FuturePlanets. This week...   Aug 15 2009, 04:37 PM
- - vjkane   Here are some recent posts at my blog, FuturePlane...   Sep 6 2009, 04:15 PM
- - vjkane   This week's posts at FuturePlanets Alternativ...   Sep 13 2009, 03:40 PM
- - antipode   Thank you for this great blog - it's become a ...   Sep 14 2009, 10:37 PM
- - maschnitz   Subscribed - very nice work.   Sep 15 2009, 12:47 AM
- - ngunn   A refreshingly optimistic tone in ths report. Mayb...   Sep 15 2009, 10:07 PM
- - ngunn   I found this article interesting. If the topic is ...   Oct 28 2009, 02:39 PM
- - vjkane   There's been concerned raised about the decisi...   Oct 28 2009, 05:08 PM
- - vjkane   Next candidates for New Frontiers missions and a n...   Dec 30 2009, 02:50 AM
- - Paolo   See also http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/fe...   Dec 30 2009, 09:55 AM
- - nprev   Mmm...Yeah, I'm with you there, Paolo. There...   Dec 30 2009, 09:59 AM
- - Enceladus75   A new Venus lander mission is what's really ne...   Dec 30 2009, 07:00 PM
|- - vjkane   Quote removed - mod Just as important, the Venus ...   Dec 30 2009, 10:16 PM
- - Julius   I'm all for the Venus mission..its about time ...   Dec 31 2009, 01:13 PM
- - vjkane   First look at the proposed NASA planetary budget f...   Feb 1 2010, 08:46 PM
- - ngunn   Thanks. I've been scouring the media for that ...   Feb 1 2010, 09:36 PM
- - elakdawalla   Remember that discussion of this budget is not per...   Feb 1 2010, 09:44 PM
- - ngunn   Right, sorry. Of course The Planetary Society wi...   Feb 1 2010, 10:17 PM
- - vjkane   I've posted descriptions of an Enceladus sampl...   Feb 17 2010, 04:04 AM
- - vjkane   NASA has just released its detailed FY 2011 budget...   Feb 23 2010, 03:26 PM
- - Paolo   the mission and technology studies selected for th...   Nov 8 2010, 06:21 PM
- - charborob   Lots of interesting ideas in there. I particularly...   Nov 8 2010, 07:39 PM
- - AndyG   I dunno about anyone else, but I'm going throu...   Nov 8 2010, 08:34 PM
- - machi   "like a kid in a particularly well-stocked sw...   Nov 8 2010, 08:50 PM
- - stevesliva   Some rather obscure proposals in there! It wo...   Nov 8 2010, 10:27 PM
- - DFinfrock   Emily, Isn't that your handiwork on the photo...   Nov 9 2010, 12:46 AM
- - vjkane   As you look through the proposals, some are clearl...   Nov 9 2010, 03:46 AM
- - nprev   Strange. No matter how much of this candy I eat, I...   Nov 9 2010, 03:49 AM
- - eoincampbell   That was one heck of a ride! Great link in so ...   Nov 9 2010, 05:18 AM
- - jasedm   Thanks for the link Paolo - very absorbing read. ...   Nov 9 2010, 11:39 AM
- - nprev   I'm very partial to the Neptune Orbiter as wel...   Nov 9 2010, 04:00 PM
- - vjkane   Check out my blog, FuturePlanets for a table compa...   Nov 9 2010, 06:28 PM
- - ngunn   I've often wondered why the electronics on spa...   Dec 3 2010, 11:08 PM
- - hendric   Well, for your average iPad, a fatal ESD event isn...   Dec 7 2010, 09:52 PM
- - ngunn   When I used the word 'pampered' there I wa...   Dec 7 2010, 11:22 PM
- - ZLD   They most definitely take into account the operati...   Dec 8 2010, 12:41 AM
- - djellison   I'm afraid your Venus rover in a decade and ti...   Dec 8 2010, 12:53 AM
|- - ZLD   QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 8 2010, 01:53 AM) ...   Dec 8 2010, 02:57 AM
- - stevesliva   Incidentally the IBM SiGe process that Georgia Tec...   Dec 8 2010, 02:22 AM
- - djellison   These are proposals, ideas, a wish list. There ...   Dec 8 2010, 07:43 AM
- - hendric   I'm hoping the research here pans out http://...   Dec 8 2010, 02:47 PM
- - machi   Price of Venus mobile explorer is estimated around...   Dec 8 2010, 05:02 PM
|- - ZLD   QUOTE (machi @ Dec 8 2010, 06:02 PM) Pric...   Dec 8 2010, 07:34 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (ZLD @ Dec 8 2010, 11:34 AM) I...   Dec 8 2010, 08:17 PM
- - Hungry4info   What about Venera D? I was under the impression i...   Dec 8 2010, 05:25 PM
- - machi   Venera D isn't surface mobile explorer. Projec...   Dec 8 2010, 06:19 PM
- - Hungry4info   Ah, understood. For some reason I was thinking it ...   Dec 8 2010, 07:04 PM
- - hendric   Here's a crazy idea for a power source. How a...   Dec 8 2010, 08:09 PM
- - hendric   I remember pre-MRO orbit insertion, there was some...   Dec 8 2010, 08:27 PM
- - ZLD   Well in that case, send up boosters to attach to t...   Dec 8 2010, 08:41 PM
- - djellison   Umm - no. Even if the KH11's still existed ( ...   Dec 8 2010, 09:48 PM
- - hendric   Obviously, ZLD was joking slightly. But the questi...   Dec 8 2010, 10:21 PM
- - ngunn   A linked array of small telescopes could push the ...   Dec 8 2010, 10:57 PM
- - djellison   There's a limit on the data rate that can be s...   Dec 8 2010, 11:20 PM
- - machi   QUOTE (ZLD @ Dec 8 2010, 08:34 PM) So ~...   Dec 8 2010, 11:48 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (machi @ Dec 8 2010, 07:48 PM) Prop...   Dec 9 2010, 12:25 AM
- - vjkane   Vote for your favorite Decadal Survey missions in ...   Jan 18 2011, 12:03 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (vjkane @ Jan 17 2011, 04:03 PM) Vo...   Jan 18 2011, 12:56 AM
- - stevesliva   I think it's time for another flagship to Jupi...   Jan 18 2011, 01:06 AM
- - vjkane   post removed   Feb 11 2011, 05:53 PM
- - ynyralmaen   I can't see that anyone else has reported this...   Feb 25 2011, 09:47 PM
|- - Paolo   QUOTE (ynyralmaen @ Feb 25 2011, 11:47 PM...   May 28 2011, 01:15 PM
- - Paolo   NASA just announced the three candidates for the n...   May 5 2011, 08:23 PM
- - Paolo   more info on GEMS http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/20...   May 6 2011, 05:21 AM
- - Paolo   and an interesting presentation on the "Comet...   May 7 2011, 04:50 PM
- - Paolo   NASA to Announce New Planetary Science Mission NF...   May 25 2011, 05:17 PM
- - volcanopele   Scientifically, I prefer SAGE. I'm very excit...   May 25 2011, 05:29 PM
- - Paolo   my favorite would definitely be SAGE, then Osiris,...   May 25 2011, 05:40 PM
- - Juramike   SAGE...I like fuzzy planets.   May 25 2011, 06:40 PM
- - charborob   If the word "Planetary" in "New Pla...   May 25 2011, 07:13 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (charborob @ May 25 2011, 11:13 AM)...   May 25 2011, 08:08 PM
- - Deimos   Just posted at NASA multimedia: http://www.nasa.g...   May 25 2011, 08:05 PM
- - Deimos   The actual announcement of OSIRIS-REX is up now: h...   May 25 2011, 08:17 PM
- - vjkane   There's a new proposal for the next stages in ...   Jul 19 2011, 12:33 AM
- - machi   Bad news from Russian space science program - Izve...   Mar 15 2012, 09:47 PM
- - machi   And some better news from Russian space program. M...   Mar 16 2012, 08:52 PM
- - Paolo   been unsuccessfully trying googling for more info ...   Feb 27 2013, 06:57 PM
- - Phil Stooke   I've been trying too but no luck yet. The ima...   Feb 27 2013, 07:17 PM
- - Paolo   some details of INSPIRE (not much, in reality) htt...   Mar 14 2013, 09:45 AM
|- - MahFL   US restarts PU-238 production ( well a test really...   Mar 20 2013, 04:25 PM
- - stevesliva   Great to hear.   Mar 20 2013, 06:37 PM
- - Paolo   NASA Wants $100 Million To Catch An Asteroid   Mar 29 2013, 08:37 AM
- - climber   Interesting infografic: http://i.imgur.com/lYdRVRi...   Jul 27 2016, 11:31 AM
|- - JRehling   I was just going to comment on the potential revol...   Jul 27 2016, 06:13 PM
|- - JRehling   Maybe I'm the only one who's antsy, but th...   Oct 12 2016, 07:51 PM
- - climber   Yet another chart (from a tweet from Emily): https...   Jul 28 2016, 07:30 PM
2 Pages V   1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th March 2024 - 06:44 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.