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Ranger, Surveyor, Luna, Luna Orbiter, 1960s Missions to Earth's Moon
Bob Shaw
post Apr 21 2005, 08:07 PM
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Have any of the serious experts on this board ever sorted out any 1960s images? I'm thinking of the Surveyor panoramas (in the 60s they did it with photos pasted onto the inside of half-spheres!) and the way that the exposure dropped off toward one corner, making a horrible patchwork effect. Or them lines and spots on the Lunar Orbiter images...

Most of the NASA mission data should be available as digital source material, and thus could be manipulated, though I suspect that getting anything 'real' from Soviet missions would be a bit of a chase!

Any thoughts?


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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Apr 24 2006, 10:52 PM
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I've got quite a bit more in the way of details on the early planned Surveyor payloads. In fact, one of the first aerospace articles I ever photocopied (back in 1966) was a detailed 1962 article on the huge payload they had planned for Surveyor at the start, which did indeed include a drill -- along with everything else up to and including the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and a partridge in a pear tree.

In Nov. 1962, they scaled it radically down to a smaller payload including one descent and 2 survey cameras, a meteoroid ejecta detector, the surface sampler, a soil mechanics tester (with bearing strength and shear strength sensors), and an X-ray diffractometer hooked up to a rock grinder (which would have been loaded by the surface sampler) -- plus the alpha-particle spectrometer as a possible add-on, and the 1-axis seismometer and surface magnetic susceptibility and thermal diffusivity sensors as possible alternates. In 1963 they dumped the XRD and its grinder, replaced the soil mechanics tester with sensors on the surface sampler, and added the alpha-scatter sensors and seismometer plus a set of "touchdown dynamics" sensors. This became the official payload for the "Block 2 Surveyors", which were originally supposed to be #5 through 7 (and which also would have retained full ability to survive lunar nights).

In December 1965, saddled by continuing cost problems and Centaur failures, they dumped those and turned the last three Surveyors into Block 1s, which had lesser telemetry capability -- and then, after the unexpected success of Surveyor 1, they had to hastily jury-rig a plan to replace the descent camera on each of the last 5 Surveyors with another, more useful science instrument, thus allowing more science studies without having to expand the craft's telemetry and power systems. A few months after Surveyor 1's landing, they decided to install the surface sampler on #3 and 4 (minus its special soil bearing strength and shear strength sensors, using motor-current loads instead for those purposes); and a few months after that they picked the alpha-scatter sensor for the last 3 Surveyors. (Their reasoning in picking those two instgruments is left as a pretty easy exercise for the reader.) In early 1967 they realized that they could carry both instruments on #7.

As for the Lunas: all the sample-return missions carried drills. But Lunas 16 and 20 (plus, presumably, the crashed #18) carried only short ones that were intended to return 30-cm cores (and were actually stopped by rocks before that point). Lunas 23 and 24 carried drills to return core samples up to 2.5 meters long. (The arrangement was ingenious; the drill stem carried a flexible snake-type internal liner which was actually pulled out of the buried drill and coiled up inside the sample-return capsule, only slightly damaging the stratigraphy of the sample.) Luna 23 was damaged during its 1974 landing in "rough terrain" and couldn't use its drill -- I'd like to know more about that incident -- but #24 flew completely successfully 2 years later (after a delay caused by the Kremlin's determination at that time to try to design a Mars sample-return mission, a fool's quest that also led to the cancellation of Lunokhod 3 and staff cuts that probably caused the failures of the surface instruments on Venera 11 and 12). Apparently it returned a 1.6-meter core sample, which may have been a bit shorter than hoped -- although I'm getting fuzzy Web information on that.
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- Bob Shaw   Ranger, Surveyor, Luna, Luna Orbiter   Apr 21 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Phil Stooke   What a coincidence that you should ask this questi...   Apr 21 2005, 08:43 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: Terrific! I don't suppose there ar...   Apr 21 2005, 08:53 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Apr 21 2005, 03:53 PM)Phil:...   Apr 22 2005, 09:07 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I will post some Surveyor stuff when I have time. ...   Apr 22 2005, 03:50 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: Very, very interesting - and the 'work ...   Apr 22 2005, 07:28 PM
- - Phil Stooke   No! I have to leave something for other folks...   Apr 22 2005, 08:27 PM
- - ilbasso   Absolutely brilliant work, Phil! I'll be ...   Apr 22 2005, 09:45 PM
|- - 4th rock from the sun   Very good Phil!!! Can you tell us the...   Apr 22 2005, 11:35 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The Surveyor pans are 360 wide, though a hardware ...   Apr 23 2005, 01:38 PM
- - Phil Stooke   The Surveyor pans are 360 wide, though a hardware ...   Apr 23 2005, 01:40 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   As I understand it, another factor behind not usin...   Apr 23 2005, 03:25 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bruce, the main purpose of the descent camera, of ...   Apr 23 2005, 04:08 PM
- - ilbasso   As for fascinating and beautiful vistas, I also ha...   Apr 23 2005, 07:28 PM
- - edstrick   Surveyor 1 was not expected to land. The prefligh...   Apr 23 2005, 08:50 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   It was the Surveyor I landing which hooked me for ...   Apr 23 2005, 09:10 PM
|- - tedstryk   I imagine some 3-D data could be reconstructed for...   Apr 24 2005, 12:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Space History Geek Time: (1) Phil Stooke has got...   Apr 24 2005, 12:44 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 23 2005, 07:44 PM)(3...   Apr 24 2005, 06:57 AM
- - Phil Stooke   It would not be possible to locate Surveyor 4 with...   Apr 24 2005, 03:36 AM
- - edstrick   Good additional info there. I'm pretty sure I...   Apr 24 2005, 08:07 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 24 2005, 04:07 PM) ...   Nov 5 2006, 09:04 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep -- I first ran across that series in 1971 at t...   Apr 24 2005, 09:37 AM
- - edstrick   Interesting!.... The Surveyor cameras were an...   Apr 24 2005, 09:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 24 2005, 08:07 AM)Good ...   Apr 24 2005, 09:59 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   By the way, that JPL series on their projects (sev...   Apr 24 2005, 10:01 AM
- - edstrick   Ah!... an article from Aviation "Leak...   Apr 24 2005, 11:07 AM
- - PhilHorzempa   [size=2] To continue this discussion of Sur...   Apr 24 2006, 09:05 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Another Phil: Yes; that's how the samples wer...   Apr 24 2006, 09:42 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've got quite a bit more in the way of detail...   Apr 24 2006, 10:52 PM
- - edstrick   One other distinction I remember reading about the...   Apr 25 2006, 05:15 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Last year you mentioned, more or less in p...   Apr 25 2006, 03:16 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I didn't know that. It is a fact, though, tha...   Apr 25 2006, 05:54 AM
- - edstrick   I could be wrong on that.. I'm working from fa...   Apr 25 2006, 10:47 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   It was an Aviation Week issue all the way back fro...   Apr 25 2006, 09:42 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: Thanks! Sometime soon I hope to have m...   Apr 25 2006, 10:03 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   While I'm at the library (whenever I do finall...   Apr 25 2006, 10:54 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I want to comment on a memo that I saw in the NASA...   May 1 2006, 03:08 AM
- - dvandorn   Well... all I can tell you is that I've proba...   May 1 2006, 04:09 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Gadfry! That's a completely new one on me...   May 1 2006, 08:52 AM
- - ljk4-1   For those of you who may be in the Washington, D.C...   May 1 2006, 02:35 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   Concerning the plan for the LMSS, I may have a pho...   May 1 2006, 08:52 PM
- - PhilCo126   Spacecraftfilms.com is planning a DVD-set of ...   May 4 2006, 08:20 AM
- - ljk4-1   There was an earlier request for an image of the o...   May 19 2006, 04:27 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   That drawing of Surveyor in a 1962 issue of ...   May 20 2006, 04:16 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   I've been thinking lately that it would be nea...   May 26 2006, 03:43 AM
- - ljk4-1   Fortieth anniversary time of the launch and landin...   Jun 1 2006, 04:22 AM
- - ljk4-1   Mike Dinn, who in 1966 worked on the Surveyor 1 mi...   Jun 1 2006, 01:44 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 1 2006, 02:44 PM...   Jun 1 2006, 01:52 PM
- - edstrick   Block 4 was to include more block 2 type retro-roc...   Nov 6 2006, 10:51 AM
|- - gndonald   QUOTE (edstrick @ Nov 6 2006, 06:51 PM) B...   Nov 8 2006, 02:32 PM
- - Phil Stooke   According to: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4210/pag...   Nov 8 2006, 04:22 PM
- - dvandorn   There were two reasons why the Ranger series was a...   Nov 9 2006, 12:03 AM


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