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The Creature That Ate Nasa Takes Another Big Bite
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Feb 5 2006, 07:27 PM
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I agree with Peter59's main point. The government has made it clear (with justification) that there will be no more money for NASA as a whole than there is now, which means that what it's getting should be spent as productively as possible -- and that means a huge deemphasis of manned flight and an increased share of funding for unmanned missions, whose scientific and economic productvitity has always been tremendously greater and will continue to be for decades to come. Comments on the relatively huge sums spent on defense, Katrina, etc. are irrelevant -- quite apart from the fact that those are usually a hell of a lot more justifiable in sane terms.

This will no doubt open me up once again to the accusation that, if you cut out funding for manned spaceflight, spending for unmanned spaceflight will also be obliterated. I remain skeptical of this. There have always been three reasons for NASA spending: concrete benefits, public enthusiasm, and flat-out pork. The first one will of course continue to be provided by unmanned programs to the same extent it already is -- and, in fact, the total concrete return from NASA will greatly increase once the white elephant of unnecessary manned flight is lifted off its back. As for the second: I've noted before that the public seems to be more interested in the actual results from the more generally interesting unmanned missions (Hubble, the MERs, Voyager) than it is from the manned missions -- and switching over from ISS to a manned lunar program won't change that. (The Moon, let's face it, is a very dull place.) And as for space pork: the Congressmen who want that for their districts will want it no matter what form it's in: manned or unmanned projects. I have no doubt that eliminating NASA's manned programs would lead to a nosedive in overall funding for the agency (which I have no objection to), but I still think that total spending on its unmanned programs would actually go up to some degree.


And, yes, the ISS is a useless atrocity and always has been; every bit of the $100 billion the US actually has spent on it has been flushed right down the toilet -- and the "experiments" that the US actually has conducted on it have been every bit as useless and ridiculous as the Russian Suitsat. The only thing that's keeping it going at this point (as NASA realized and planned from the start, when they deliberately and ridiculously lowballed their initial cost estimates for it) is the fact that legislators don't want to admit that they were wrong in supporting the thing previously and will therefore keep flushing more money down the same toilet until absolute disaster comes or those particular legislators retire, whichever comes first. That's just the way the game is played in any conceivable human system of governance. (Gravity Probe B is seriously questionable on grounds of scientific cost-effectiveness -- which is why it almost got cancelled several times -- but it shines like a nova compared to the ISS, the Shuttle or the Apollo program by that standard.)
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- BruceMoomaw   The Creature That Ate Nasa Takes Another Big Bite   Feb 5 2006, 07:27 PM
- - djellison   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 5 2006, 07:27 PM)swi...   Feb 5 2006, 07:32 PM
|- - Holder of the Two Leashes   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 5 2006, 01:32 PM)I ver...   Feb 7 2006, 01:16 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 5 2006, 07:32 PM)Peopl...   Feb 5 2006, 07:40 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 5 2006, 02:40 PM)But...   Feb 5 2006, 07:51 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 5 2006, 01:51 PM)......   Feb 6 2006, 04:12 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, yeah; basically, that IS what I'm saying...   Feb 6 2006, 05:48 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 6 2006, 05:48 AM)The...   Feb 6 2006, 05:05 PM
- - dvandorn   Bruce, it is simply not possible to send more than...   Feb 6 2006, 06:06 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   You will never be able to know how being on the Mo...   Feb 6 2006, 06:34 AM
|- - scisys   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 6 2006, 02:34 AM)Onc...   Feb 8 2006, 01:02 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, it certainly has been in today's budget ...   Feb 6 2006, 08:13 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0602/06nasabud...   Feb 7 2006, 03:18 AM
|- - The Messenger   I think we should just de-annex Texas and give it ...   Feb 7 2006, 03:56 AM
|- - vexgizmo   RE: The Creature That Ate Nasa Takes Another Big Bite   Feb 7 2006, 05:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Feb 7 2006, 03:56 AM)I...   Feb 7 2006, 06:13 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I'm still slogging through the 2007 NASA budge...   Feb 7 2006, 06:47 AM
|- - GravityWaves   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 7 2006, 03:47 AM...   Mar 25 2006, 06:32 PM
- - Jeff7   Geez, at this rate, New Horizons won't have to...   Feb 7 2006, 08:17 AM
- - Analyst   Let's summarize the solar system exploration p...   Feb 7 2006, 09:04 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Analyst @ Feb 7 2006, 09:04 AM)- MEX e...   Feb 7 2006, 10:10 AM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 7 2006, 05:10 AM)But s...   Feb 7 2006, 08:42 PM
- - Myran   Aaaaaaand another bite: This time from the SIM Pla...   Feb 7 2006, 12:14 PM
- - dvandorn   Man -- I had hopes for Griffin. Here we *finally*...   Feb 7 2006, 12:55 PM
- - dvandorn   One thing to remember -- the President may propose...   Feb 7 2006, 12:59 PM
|- - odave   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 7 2006, 07:59 AM)One th...   Feb 7 2006, 02:05 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 7 2006, 12:59 PM)One th...   Feb 9 2006, 12:52 PM
|- - ljk4-1   And Bush has reintroduced the insane idea of priva...   Feb 9 2006, 02:04 PM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE I have long thought that when I become Lord ...   Feb 7 2006, 01:50 PM
- - djellison   Has the NASA slice of the pie been altered much du...   Feb 7 2006, 02:23 PM
- - odave   Yes, it does seem like just "noise" at t...   Feb 7 2006, 02:58 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (odave @ Feb 7 2006, 09:58 AM)Yes, it d...   Feb 7 2006, 10:24 PM
- - PhilCo126   Well (unmanned) spaceflight may not be a priority ...   Feb 7 2006, 06:26 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Feb 7 2006, 08:42 PM)Sometimes...   Feb 8 2006, 06:58 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Looks like SOFIA may never get off the ground, too...   Feb 8 2006, 06:16 PM
|- - vexgizmo   National Geographic: NASA Budget Diverts Funds Fro...   Feb 8 2006, 09:51 PM
- - Exploitcorporations   I feel that perhaps the scientific community at la...   Feb 9 2006, 12:06 PM
|- - Marz   QUOTE (Exploitcorporations @ Feb 9 2006, 06:0...   Feb 9 2006, 04:33 PM
|- - ljk4-1   SOFIA Telescope Project Faces Hurdles http://www...   Feb 9 2006, 06:43 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (Marz @ Feb 9 2006, 11:33 AM)This is tr...   Feb 9 2006, 06:54 PM
|- - Rakhir   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Feb 9 2006, 08:54 PM)Well to h...   Feb 9 2006, 09:03 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Feb 8 2006, 09:51 PM)It is ...   Feb 10 2006, 03:01 AM
- - Bill Harris   And to do celestial navigation you need to know hi...   Feb 10 2006, 03:06 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 10 2006, 04:06 AM)An...   Feb 10 2006, 11:36 AM
- - ilbasso   Doug, can we revoke Bob S's membership unless ...   Feb 10 2006, 11:59 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ilbasso @ Feb 10 2006, 12:59 PM)Doug, ...   Feb 10 2006, 12:22 PM
- - remcook   http://kgmb9.com/kgmb/display.cfm?storyID=7233...   Feb 10 2006, 05:14 PM
|- - vexgizmo   The editors of Scientific American chime in on the...   Feb 11 2006, 09:40 PM
- - rogelio   Just a thought – might the cancellation of Terrest...   Feb 12 2006, 02:37 PM
|- - David   Why can't the US just sell its share of the IS...   Feb 12 2006, 04:01 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (David @ Feb 12 2006, 04:01 PM) Why...   Feb 12 2006, 04:26 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (rogelio @ Feb 12 2006, 09:37 AM) J...   Feb 12 2006, 06:09 PM
||- - vexgizmo   http://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/cev_faq.h...   Feb 12 2006, 06:12 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (rogelio @ Feb 12 2006, 09:37 AM) J...   Feb 13 2006, 04:02 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Remarks to the National Space Club by NASA Adminis...   Feb 13 2006, 04:48 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Feb 13 2006, 04:48 P...   Feb 13 2006, 04:57 PM
|- - Chmee   I beleive Griffin means that if the CEV were delay...   Feb 13 2006, 05:04 PM
||- - vexgizmo   from The Planetary Society: http://www.planetary....   Feb 14 2006, 01:52 AM
||- - ljk4-1   THE DAY IN SPACE __________________ In today...   Feb 16 2006, 07:00 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (David @ Feb 13 2006, 09:57 AM) Ahe...   Feb 16 2006, 09:24 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Feb 16 2006, 04:24...   Feb 17 2006, 12:47 AM
- - djellison   Because otherwise, NASA will go without manned acc...   Feb 13 2006, 05:04 PM
- - David   I think I'm beginning to get a handle on what ...   Feb 16 2006, 09:40 PM
- - lyford   SOFIA made APOD. No mention of it's eviscerat...   Feb 26 2006, 02:01 AM


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