The Creature That Ate Nasa Takes Another Big Bite Options

[Jeff7]

Yes, it does seem like just "noise" at that level, and the social programs getting cuts (or rather, a "decrease in the increase" as I heard one spin doctor put it), will definitely get much more attention in the process.  But writing a letter or e-mail to a congress person is still worth it - we're at least trying to do something.

But what we really need is a good lobbyist. 

[Gets out rolodex and starts flipping]

Hmmm...where is it....Abramov, Abramov... 

No no, good lobbyist. If he's involved in legal scandals....well, I guess that could mean he was doing too good of a job. He just got caught.
I never much cared for lobbyists, or politics in general for that matter.
Besides - Abramoff won't be doing much of anything if he's in jail. (Like that'll ever happen in the real world. Wishful thinking though.)


Edit: Sorry for the extra post. Between going to classes, and having 15 tabs open, I wound up replying to an unrefreshed version of this page. Oops.

[scisys]

Once again, let us look at the polls.  The American people consistently say that they would favor a new manned lunar program if its total cost was "less than a billion dollars" -- which is to say they don't favor one.  And unless we can come up with some argument for it other than entertainment, they have every right to say that they don't want their taxes used to provide them with that particular kind of entertainment.

Okay. Here are a couple of justifications. I want a *very* large radio telescope array completely shielded from earth noise on the far side. I want an immense optical, UV, NIR and FIR observatory (two actually ... one at each lunar pole) with no atmosphere and a literally rock solid platform for long exposures. *That* would be a space telescope! Give me Keck on the moon. Give me VLA on the moon. There are lot's of reasons for going back.

As a geologist I would love to see robotics that could move as quickly and make sampling decisions as accurately as years of training give a human geologist. We aren't there yet. And before we talk about all the great multi-spectral vision a robotic explorer might I have I say "Fine ... give me the same damn instruments to hold in my hand". We frequently talk about robotic devices as though humans on the scene would not have the same equipment. In fact the argument is one of having the abliity to make immediate decisions on site. The travesty of the Apollo missions was that it wasn't until the last trip that we sent an actual geologist.

I actually agree that our current manned program is a fiasco and utter waster of time but there are a *lot* of things robotic explorers and tele-presence can not do. There are things that humans can, and will continue for a long time, to be able to do better than any robotic stand-in. MER is great ... but how much ground has been covered? How many sites visited? How long would a human geologist have remained stuck in a dune field? The Apollo rovers covered more ground 35 years ago. If we ask the geologists controlling the rovers if they could do a better job if they were there instead of the rovers what answer do your think we would get? I think our robots are absolutely terrific and essential. But it is not enough when we have the ability to do better.

An argument is frequently made that we should use robots because we can take more risk than we might take with humans who end up being little more than publicity stunts because they can't go anywhere 'interesting'. We'll send more because robots cost less and if we lose a few it won't be such a big deal. Run videos, side by side, of Spirit or Opportunity and one of the later Apollo rovers and tell which was pushing the edge of exploration.

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Sometimes writing letters just seems futile. My sister regularly writes a few Congressman, and I see the letters she gets back - standardized form letters "signed" with a copy of the person's signature, and they usually amount to saying "Gee, it's too bad you feel that way about my policies. Please vote for me anyway."

That's wrong -- the fact that they'll never admit publicly that they're shaken by your disapproval hardly means that they aren't worried about it. I've heard that it's Standard Operating Procedure among the staffs of Congressmen to assume that as few as five disapproving letters on an issue means it's likely that there is an offended constituency of significant size, which should perhaps be placated.

[ljk4-1]

Looks like SOFIA may never get off the ground, too - and they stopped the KUIPER missions to make way for SOFIA.


Posted on Tue, Feb. 07, 2006

NASA/Ames faces more deep cuts

By Glennda Chui

Mercury News

A $600 million jumbo jet, equipped with a 50,000-pound telescope for studying
black holes and destined for Mountain View's NASA/Ames Research Center, is
threatened with elimination in next year's NASA budget, officials said Monday.

...

And NASA's Astrobiology Institute, a virtual center based at Ames with collaborators at 16 institutions across the country, faces a 40 percent cut, said Ames acting director Chris Christensen.

Full article at:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/13812757.htm

[vexgizmo]

National Geographic:
NASA Budget Diverts Funds From Science to Spaceships

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...208_nasa_2.html

From the inside cover of the VSE document:

"The NASA Vision
To improve life here,
To extend life to there,
To find life beyond."


http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18943
"The House Science Committee ... will also hold a budget hearing on Thursday, February 16 with Hon. Michael Griffin, NASA Administrator."

Committee members:
http://www.house.gov/science/committeeinfo/members/index.htm

Committee Main Office Phone - 202-225-6371
Committee Main Office Fax - 202-226-0113

It is my understanding that faxes are the most effective means of communication (mail is dealyed because it all must first be irradiated nowadays).

[Exploitcorporati...]

I feel that perhaps the scientific community at large is simply failing to communicate with the present administration in the correct language. Surely, no administration in recent history has shown greater commitment to science, reason, and the advancement of knowledge(particualry when it comes to stamping them out). And assuredly, no administration in history has shown more passion for collecting data(on us). Therefore, it is in that spirit that I propose several talking points for direct communication with Washington on the subject of Europa:

1. Fix the intelligence around the policy:

We know, for example, that Europa most likely possesses subterranean liquid. Also, spectra of Europa show evidence of hydrocarbon contaminants in the surface ice. Just which liquid or which hydrocarbons are unimportant. What is important is to use the words subterranean, liquid, and hydrocarbon repeatedly, preferrably in that order, in the same sentence, without other words in the way. The administation has great interest in and much experience with subterranean liquid hydrocarbons.

2. Make it really scary not to go to Europa:

Reconnaissanse of the Jovian system shows clear association between Europa and its neighbor Io, which possesses powerful active volcanoes and a lethal radiation environment in clear and willful violation of the UN space weapons ban. Sulphur dust is'nt the only evidence of dangerous dalliances...Europa also is within the sphere of influence of Jupiter, not the United States. Nevertheless, gravity is no less up for debate than climate change or the Big Bang, so it may not stay there...the main point to make is that we need to go to Europa before Europa comes here.

3. Consider the benefits:

Lucrative contracts for certain unnamed consulting firms are a given, especially considering the need for vast quantities of rock salt and blow dryers to mount a successful exploration campaign. And hell, if there is life down there, think of the tax revenue! The outsourcing! The low manufacturing costs!

Simply apply these three steps to your program of choice.


Believing six impossible things before breakfast,
Orion.

[tedstryk]

One thing to remember -- the President may propose a budget, but the Congress has to pass it.

Very true. Remember, New Horizons was cancelled in the Bush budget years ago.....

[ljk4-1]

And Bush has reintroduced the insane idea of privatizing social security as an item in the budget - conveniently hidden on page 321. It will only cost $712 billion.

Remember this when they say they don't have the money to explore the Sol system.

http://seniorliving.about.com/od/lawpoliti...ialsecstudy.htm

[Marz]

I feel that perhaps the scientific community at large is simply failing to communicate with the present administration in the correct language. Surely, no administration in recent history has shown greater commitment to science, reason, and the advancement of knowledge(particualry when it comes to stamping them out). And assuredly, no administration in history has shown more passion for collecting data(on us). Therefore, it is in that spirit that I propose several talking points for direct communication with Washington on the subject of Europa:

1. Fix the intelligence around the policy:
   
    We know, for example, that Europa most likely possesses subterranean liquid. Also, spectra of Europa show evidence of hydrocarbon contaminants in the surface ice. Just which liquid or which hydrocarbons are unimportant. What is important is to use the words subterranean, liquid, and hydrocarbon repeatedly, preferrably in that order, in the same sentence, without other words in the way. The administation has great interest in and much experience with subterranean liquid hydrocarbons.

2. Make it really scary not to go to Europa:

     Reconnaissanse of the Jovian system shows clear association between Europa and its neighbor Io, which possesses powerful active volcanoes and a lethal radiation environment in clear and willful violation of the UN space weapons ban. Sulphur dust is'nt the only evidence of dangerous dalliances...Europa also is within the sphere of influence of Jupiter, not the United States. Nevertheless, gravity is no less up for debate than climate change or the Big Bang, so it may not stay there...the main point to make is that we need to go to Europa before Europa comes here.

3. Consider the benefits:

      Lucrative contracts for certain unnamed consulting firms are a given, especially considering the need for vast quantities of rock salt and blow dryers to mount a successful exploration campaign. And hell, if there is life down there, think of the tax revenue! The outsourcing! The low manufacturing costs!

Simply apply these three steps to your program of choice.
Believing six impossible things before breakfast,
Orion.

This is truly hilarious! (Mostly because it's so darn true, so maybe I should be crying instead of LMAO?)

So let's start a rumor that Europa has vast deposits of hydrocarbons on a pristine arctic wilderness. NASA can rename JIMO to the 'Healthy Planet Petroleum Explorer'.

Then, since we all know that gravity is "just a theory", we need to show that Eurpoa is clearly a terrorist threat... a planet-sized WMD!!! The Europa Orbiter can be renamed the 'Preemptive Assault Vehicle', and instead of science objectives, it will have "intelligence gathering capabilities"! Remember, the Europans hate us for our freedoms that we ignore anyways. And heck, what could be a bigger threat than Aliens that don't pay taxes? The Terrestrial Planet Finder should be renamed to the 'Search for Pinko-commie Extremist Aliens'...

Finally, we need to create a few more NASA research centers in key states so Congress will see this all as an exercise in pork. Is it too late to ask Deutsch to come back? He seems to be the right kinda of nepotistic slimeball to help us with this PR problem.

Thanks for a good laugh when I needed it most.

[ljk4-1]

SOFIA Telescope Project Faces Hurdles

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_so...ore_060209.html

On Monday, Feb. 7, NASA Administrator Griffin announced the proposed agency
budget for FY 2007 SOFIA has zero funding from 2007 onward. This is not good
news for SOFIA, nor for the U. S. and German scientific, technological and
educational communities.

[Jeff7]

This is truly hilarious!  (Mostly because it's so darn true, so maybe I should be crying instead of LMAO?) 

So let's start a rumor that Europa has vast deposits of hydrocarbons on a pristine arctic wilderness.  NASA can rename JIMO to the 'Healthy Planet Petroleum Explorer'.

Then, since we all know that gravity is "just a theory", we need to show that Eurpoa is clearly a terrorist threat... a planet-sized WMD!!!  The Europa Orbiter can be renamed the 'Preemptive Assault Vehicle', and instead of science objectives, it will have "intelligence gathering capabilities"!  Remember, the Europans hate us for our freedoms that we ignore anyways.  And heck, what could be a bigger threat than Aliens that don't pay taxes?  The Terrestrial Planet Finder should be renamed to the 'Search for Pinko-commie Extremist Aliens'... 

Finally, we need to create a few more NASA research centers in key states so Congress will see this all as an exercise in pork.  Is it too late to ask Deutsch to come back?  He seems to be the right kinda of nepotistic slimeball to help us with this PR problem.

Thanks for a good laugh when I needed it most.

Well to hell with all this - we already know that the Death Star orbiting Saturn has destroyed two starships, and its predecessor wiped out an Earth-like planet in another galaxy, so it's clearly a significant threat to us.

[Rakhir]

Well to hell with all this - we already know that the Death Star orbiting Saturn has destroyed two starships, and its predecessor wiped out an Earth-like planet in another galaxy, so it's clearly a significant threat to us.

And don't forget to mention the outpost packed of TIE fighters concealed inside an asteroid.
The Japanese probe was almost destroyed by one of them just after having revealed the threat.

I can't imagine what Ceres hides inside !


Credit: Odave/JAXA/ISAS

-- Rakhir

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

It is my understanding that faxes are the most effective means of communication (mail is delayed because it all must first be irradiated nowadays).

Shouldn't they irradiate the Congressmen as well? After all, two heads are better than one (especially with some of these guys).

[Bill Harris]

And to do celestial navigation you need to know higher mathematics, so there must be Weapons of Math Instruction...


--Bill

[Bob Shaw]

And to do celestial navigation you need to know higher mathematics, so there must be Weapons of Math Instruction...   
--Bill

Bill:

You forgot the International Secret Society of Plumbing Operatives and Allied Tradespersons and their similarly secret underwater factories - they're used for wet forms of bath construction.

Not to mention (on a more astronomical theme) all that hoo-ha about the creatures who live just above the event horizon of black holes - you know, life-forms of mass constriction...

I could go on, go on, go on, go on, but hopefully won't be allowed to!

Bob Shaw