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TiME
rlorenz
post May 5 2011, 08:48 PM
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Ahoy mateys!

NASA announces Discovery mission selection for Phase A.

Titan Mare Explorer (TiME) is among them. Har!
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centsworth_II
post May 8 2011, 01:54 PM
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Unfortunately it does look a bit iffy for getting good descent images of the shoreline. Just for fun, I superimposed pre-Huygens landing descent image footprint projections over a map of Ligeia Mare. Haze would probably prevent good imaging outside of the green octagon, which barely touches the shore. The really good wide Huygens panorama was within the magenta circle, and the great landing area panorama would just cover the black X. I'm hoping for some improvements over the Huygens "camera". Maybe a telescopic lens?

The probe being blown to shore during the course of the mission doesn't look too good either. The probe could easily land 100 km from the shore and even a "perfect" wind, blowing constantly in one direction toward the nearest shoreline would need to blow the probe over a kilometer a day for three months. Not a likely scenario.

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ugordan
post May 8 2011, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 8 2011, 03:54 PM) *
I'm hoping for some improvements over the Huygens "camera". Maybe a telescopic lens?

You don't want a telescopic lens. It's not the angular resolution that's the problem, it's the haze extinction. You want a really good S/N ratio to combat the reduction in contrast when looking through an optically thick layer of haze. Huygens DISR was already pretty good in this respect. IIRC it returned 10 bit data to Earth, square-root-encoded from 14 bit A/D output. 10 bit data is still pretty much standard for spacecraft today.

Where there could be some improvement over Huygens is in selecting a narrow spectral window like ISS CB3 instead of a broader range Huygens used. This does come at a price though - much longer exposures needed and if your spacecraft is rocking really hard on the way down this virtually guarantees image smear.


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rlorenz
post May 8 2011, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (ugordan @ May 8 2011, 10:20 AM) *
Where there could be some improvement over Huygens is in selecting a narrow spectral window like ISS CB3 instead of a broader range Huygens used. This does come at a price though - much longer exposures needed and if your spacecraft is rocking really hard on the way down this virtually guarantees image smear.


I'd love to enter the discussion, but the Step 1 selection just means this is now a much more
cut-throat competition, and many details of the mission will have to remain proprietary for now.
There are very smart people on the team (a look at author lists of abstracts will clue you in)
who spent a lot of time thinking how best to do imaging, and there are very good reasons
for choosing Ligeia, etc.

It is my intent to make as many details public as is feasible, to engage the scientific community
and the public at large to the greatest extent, but the competitive process will restrict that
for the time being.

Hopefully one day I'll get to write the full story in a book - the followup to Titan Unveiled. I'm thinking
a good title might be 'A Brief History of TiME'......
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Posts in this topic
- rlorenz   TiME   May 5 2011, 08:48 PM
- - centsworth_II   Long may this thread live! To 2023 and beyond...   May 5 2011, 09:01 PM
- - Juramike   Whatever floats your boat! Congratulation...   May 5 2011, 09:09 PM
- - ngunn   And a hearty cheer from me. I worked at sea for...   May 5 2011, 09:20 PM
- - Drkskywxlt   Congratulations, Ralph, and also to your team!   May 5 2011, 11:57 PM
- - nprev   Wow, Ralph, MAJOR congrats!!! This pro...   May 6 2011, 12:00 AM
- - titanicrivers   Excellent! Something to really look forward t...   May 6 2011, 12:25 AM
- - punkboi   I hope TiME gets chosen in 2016. Outer Planet miss...   May 6 2011, 02:11 AM
|- - SFJCody   I also prefer TiME to the other candidates. METNET...   May 6 2011, 02:27 AM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (SFJCody @ May 5 2011, 10:27 PM) I ...   May 6 2011, 03:47 AM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (SFJCody @ May 5 2011, 09:27 PM) Bu...   May 6 2011, 01:37 PM
|- - tfisher   I agree: of the three announced candidate missions...   May 7 2011, 03:20 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (tfisher @ May 7 2011, 10:20 AM) .....   May 7 2011, 06:19 PM
|- - tfisher   Does anyone know what liquid methane/ethane is lik...   May 7 2011, 07:39 PM
||- - Juramike   QUOTE (tfisher @ May 7 2011, 02:39 PM) Do...   May 7 2011, 07:44 PM
||- - rlorenz   QUOTE (Juramike @ May 7 2011, 03:44 PM) G...   May 8 2011, 12:13 AM
||- - Juramike   QUOTE (rlorenz @ May 7 2011, 07:13 PM) [T...   May 8 2011, 01:40 AM
||- - jasedm   QUOTE (Juramike @ May 8 2011, 02:40 AM) t...   May 8 2011, 10:33 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 7 2011, 07:19 ...   May 7 2011, 09:03 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (ngunn @ May 7 2011, 05:03 PM) I wa...   May 7 2011, 09:16 PM
- - eoincampbell   I'm on TiME's side, Ligeia Mare, here we c...   May 6 2011, 05:00 AM
- - antipode   I like all the selected missions, but TiME seems s...   May 6 2011, 07:12 AM
- - machi   Congratulations Ralph and whole TiME team. It...   May 6 2011, 10:03 AM
- - djellison   Moreover - TiME will be quite a warm thing - so he...   May 7 2011, 08:14 PM
- - nprev   When exactly can we expect the final mission selec...   May 7 2011, 08:39 PM
- - nprev   Thanks for those slides, Cents. I'd actually ...   May 7 2011, 10:06 PM
|- - DFinfrock   QUOTE (nprev @ May 7 2011, 10:06 PM) Than...   May 8 2011, 12:33 AM
|- - tedstryk   Time seems like quite a timely proposal. Congratu...   May 8 2011, 01:35 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 7 2011, 05:35 PM) a...   May 8 2011, 06:47 AM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 8 2011, 11:35 AM) T...   May 8 2011, 06:58 AM
- - nprev   I see that the UMSF bad pun tradition is alive ...   May 8 2011, 09:44 AM
|- - brellis   QUOTE (nprev @ May 8 2011, 01:44 AM) I...   May 8 2011, 03:25 PM
- - machi   It looks (from scheme), that two imaging instrumen...   May 8 2011, 01:23 PM
- - centsworth_II   Unfortunately it does look a bit iffy for getting ...   May 8 2011, 01:54 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 8 2011, 03:54 ...   May 8 2011, 02:20 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (ugordan @ May 8 2011, 10:20 AM) Wh...   May 8 2011, 03:00 PM
||- - Greg Hullender   QUOTE (rlorenz @ May 8 2011, 08:00 AM) a ...   May 8 2011, 05:10 PM
||- - eoincampbell   QUOTE (rlorenz @ May 8 2011, 07:00 AM) Ho...   May 8 2011, 06:57 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (ugordan @ May 8 2011, 09:20 AM) Yo...   May 8 2011, 05:33 PM
|- - ugordan   I was under the impression the haze doesn't ...   May 8 2011, 05:53 PM
- - nprev   Ralph, although I'm sure it's proprietary ...   May 8 2011, 09:13 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   All in due...... well, you know.   May 8 2011, 09:34 PM
- - nprev   <groan>...walked right into that one!   May 8 2011, 09:55 PM
- - Explorer1   With luck, there should be a naming contest or we...   May 8 2011, 11:39 PM
- - nprev   Not a bad point, Explorer, and I think that NH was...   May 9 2011, 12:31 AM
|- - DFinfrock   QUOTE (nprev @ May 9 2011, 12:31 AM) TiME...   May 9 2011, 01:18 AM
|- - polaris   QUOTE (DFinfrock @ May 9 2011, 02:18 AM) ...   May 11 2011, 02:08 PM
- - jasedm   I vote for Shackleton's ship 'Endurance...   May 9 2011, 04:35 PM
|- - dmg   QUOTE (jasedm @ May 9 2011, 09:35 AM) I v...   May 10 2011, 12:44 PM
|- - MahFL   How about "Armada" from "The Spanis...   May 10 2011, 01:46 PM
- - nprev   I like "Admunsen"; seems like a very apr...   May 10 2011, 10:21 PM
- - djellison   Amundsen and Scott were names for the DS2 micropro...   May 10 2011, 11:13 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ May 10 2011, 11:13 PM)...   May 10 2011, 11:36 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 10 2011, 03:36 PM) ...   May 10 2011, 11:42 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 10 2011, 03:36 PM) ...   May 11 2011, 12:38 AM
- - nprev   Argh...right, right...bummer! Hmm. Wonder if ...   May 10 2011, 11:20 PM
- - stevesliva   Call it the Cuyahoga. Volatile organics and all t...   May 10 2011, 11:33 PM
- - Drkskywxlt   How about the Fram? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...   May 10 2011, 11:40 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   The names of the Vikings that discovered Greenland...   May 11 2011, 01:02 AM
- - djellison   Hey - we could call it TiME.   May 11 2011, 01:53 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ May 11 2011, 01:53 AM)...   May 11 2011, 07:09 PM
|- - Astrophil   Not an explorer, but – Coleridge: “We were the fir...   May 12 2011, 07:58 AM
- - nprev   To be sure. The clock is indeed ticking; to ans...   May 11 2011, 01:57 AM
- - Stu   It would never happen in a gazillion years, I...   May 11 2011, 02:12 PM
|- - tedstryk   Perhaps Champlain would be a good name, since he n...   May 11 2011, 05:17 PM
|- - DFinfrock   QUOTE (Stu @ May 11 2011, 02:12 PM) It wo...   May 13 2011, 01:10 AM
- - Phil Stooke   "Parachute Landing On Puddle" PLOP...   May 12 2011, 11:37 AM
- - centsworth_II   Titanic? Or -- since Time is a raft -- Kon-Tiki....   May 12 2011, 12:31 PM
- - titanicrivers   How about the good ship ARGO. (I don't have t...   May 12 2011, 12:49 PM
- - remcook   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 12 2011, 12:31...   May 12 2011, 02:21 PM
- - machi   Personally I like Fram and Endurance. These names ...   May 12 2011, 02:30 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   A ship out on one of the Great Lakes in cold nasty...   May 12 2011, 02:30 PM
|- - titanicrivers   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ May 12 2011, 09:30 A...   May 12 2011, 02:54 PM
|- - DFinfrock   QUOTE (titanicrivers @ May 12 2011, 02:54...   May 13 2011, 01:02 AM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (DFinfrock @ May 13 2011, 02:02 AM)...   May 13 2011, 10:25 AM
||- - MahFL   Cat's are a law unto themselves, ours called ...   May 13 2011, 12:55 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (DFinfrock @ May 12 2011, 06:02 PM)...   May 13 2011, 01:39 PM
- - Paolo   a technical question: any idea of the data rate of...   May 15 2011, 08:44 AM
- - Phil Stooke   My concern too - coupled with the brief mission af...   May 15 2011, 03:49 PM
- - nprev   On the other hand, it's gonna have gobs of pow...   May 15 2011, 05:20 PM
- - mchan   Just because TiME will use an ASRG (or two) does n...   May 15 2011, 09:11 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (mchan @ May 15 2011, 05:11 PM) ......   May 16 2011, 02:16 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   An extremely crude back-of-the-envelope calculatio...   May 15 2011, 10:39 PM
- - ngunn   I'm on board. There's no fatal flaw with t...   May 15 2011, 10:49 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Thinking more about this, the Galileo LGA might be...   May 15 2011, 11:07 PM
- - stevesliva   And of course, as long as the descent imaging and ...   May 15 2011, 11:39 PM
- - machi   "any idea of the data rate of TiME and of the...   May 15 2011, 11:53 PM
- - JGodbaz   Except that the vast majority of the data will pro...   May 16 2011, 01:08 PM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (JGodbaz @ May 16 2011, 08:08 AM) E...   May 17 2011, 05:35 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (rlorenz @ May 16 2011, 09:35 PM) M...   May 17 2011, 06:07 AM
|- - rlorenz   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ May 17 2011, 01:07 A...   May 19 2011, 03:54 AM
- - tanjent   Good point. Roughly speaking the Earth should be v...   May 16 2011, 03:08 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (tanjent @ May 16 2011, 10:08 AM) ....   May 16 2011, 04:12 PM
|- - Bjorn Jonsson   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 16 2011, 04:12...   May 16 2011, 04:41 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ May 16 2011, 12:41...   May 16 2011, 04:42 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   I suppose engineering specifics are way down the r...   May 16 2011, 03:10 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   No, it won't happen (unless you get a *very* l...   May 16 2011, 05:02 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ May 16 2011, 12:02...   May 16 2011, 08:46 PM
- - helvick   Dan - I wouldn't have thought that sort of tem...   May 16 2011, 05:21 PM
- - nprev   One thing to consider is that TiME will require VE...   May 17 2011, 12:34 AM
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