Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Unmanned Spaceflight.com _ Opportunity _ Clouds

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 9 2006, 11:46 AM

With the images of clouds coming down, it is time for a new thread.

Here is just part of a panorama. Autostitch was not able to stitch

more than those 2 images of 4 images.

I think because there are not enough matching points.

Maybe one of the other programms can do it better?

Taken with the L0 navcam on Sol 962.

jvandriel

EDIT.
I have done my math again and the Sol is not Sol 962 but Sol 950.

I know there is a little program for finding the right Sol but i can't find it.

jvandriel

 

Posted by: ngunn Oct 9 2006, 11:50 AM

Bang on Cue! Stu and I were just discussing this moments ago. Thanks for starting a thread for this topic.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2006, 12:30 PM

Sol 949:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=264915265&size=l

Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2006, 12:56 PM

Sol 950 clouds:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=264929460&size=l

The clouds do not match up from image to image because they actually move a considerable distance in the time it takes Oppy to rotate her camera mast.

Here is a perspective view of the same sol 950 clouds:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=264929418&context=photostream&size=l

Posted by: Nix Oct 9 2006, 01:03 PM

ohmy.gif that perspective view is really something Michael

Nico

Posted by: Gray Oct 9 2006, 01:30 PM

Wow. That perspective view is stunning. It could be in a gallery.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2006, 01:37 PM

It does have a certain desolate beauty, doesn't it? I hope JPL will render a view like this and put it in a gallery. It's too bad this is all Navcam, not Pancam, or one might expect something similar in JB's upcoming book.

Posted by: ngunn Oct 9 2006, 02:08 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Oct 9 2006, 01:56 PM) *
Here is a perspective view of the same sol 950 clouds:

[


A fantastic perspective view. For me this really is like being there, more than any other image I've seen. The reason? The true perspective and the expanse of sky overhead in one and the same image. MORE OF THESE PLEASE!!!

I'm no good with images, but if someone would cheat a little and remove the black stripe above the horizon it would be even better.

Posted by: Tayfun Öner Oct 9 2006, 02:33 PM



Here is the cheated image.

Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2006, 02:41 PM

Nice!

Posted by: ngunn Oct 9 2006, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (Tayfun Öner @ Oct 9 2006, 03:33 PM) *
Here is the cheated image.


Brilliant! Thanks. (I've never known a place like this for getting prayers answered quickly.)

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 9 2006, 04:16 PM

Michael,

great panos as always

Which software do you use?

jvandriel

Posted by: Ant103 Oct 9 2006, 04:30 PM

Very beautifull images and clouds wink.gif

Here is a colorised version based on Tayfun Öner's michael cheated image :


Posted by: mhoward Oct 9 2006, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Ant103 @ Oct 9 2006, 04:30 PM) *
Here is a colorised version based on Tayfun Öner's michael cheated image :


Wow! This gets better and better. Nice job, Ant. Somebody alert APOD!

Posted by: Airbag Oct 9 2006, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Oct 9 2006, 01:04 PM) *
Somebody alert APOD!


And AW&ST smile.gif Seeing the surface and clouds in the same view really provides a "sense of place". Simply stunning.

Airbag

Posted by: dilo Oct 9 2006, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (Airbag @ Oct 9 2006, 05:13 PM) *
And AW&ST smile.gif Seeing the surface and clouds in the same view really provides a "sense of place". Simply stunning.

And the similarities between the two are very intriguing...
Thanks, guys, both quality and speed of images posted on this Forum are better and better each day!

Posted by: Shaka Oct 9 2006, 07:21 PM

Exquisite! A landscape of blueberry fields forever, under tenuous whispers of crystalline reflections.
Stu! It's time for a haiku! Get to work. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: climber Oct 9 2006, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (Shaka @ Oct 9 2006, 09:21 PM) *
Exquisite! A landscape of blueberry fields forever, under tenuous whispers of crystalline reflections.
Stu! It's time for a haiku! Get to work. rolleyes.gif


In case Google crash, here is the model wink.gif

Let me take you down
cause I'm going to Blueberry fields
Nothing is real
and nothing to get hung about
Blueberry fields forever

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone
but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me

Let me take you down
cause I'm going to Blueberry fields
Nothing is real
and nothing to get hung about
Blueberry fields forever

No one I think is in my tree
I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't, you know, tune in
but it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad

Let me take you down
cause I'm going to Blueberry fields
Nothing is real
and nothing to get hung about
Blueberry fields forever

Always know sometimes think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean, ah yes
but it's all wrong
that is I think I disagree

Let me take you down
cause I'm going to Blueberry fields
Nothing is real
and nothing to get hung about
Blueberry fields forever
Blueberry fields forever
Blueberry fields forever

Posted by: Charles Oct 9 2006, 08:00 PM

I was in shock and awe with the clouds and all very nice work
thank you for sharing

Posted by: CosmicRocker Oct 10 2006, 03:38 AM

Top shelf work, folks. That view really is impressive, and the reference to Blueberry Fields seems surrealistically appropriate. It is quite a dreamscape, or perhaps a dream come true. Everything we've seen through these rover's eyes has been something we could only imagine a few short years ago, and this view adds a new dimension.

Posted by: dilo Oct 10 2006, 05:47 AM

Cannot resist to make my personal mood edition...

 

Posted by: Pedro_Sondas Oct 10 2006, 10:23 AM

Magnificent desolation!!! blink.gif

Posted by: dilo Oct 10 2006, 10:11 PM

A different version, with a polar-like projection of the Michael's stitch (something like a super-fish eye view...)

 

Posted by: glennwsmith Oct 11 2006, 06:32 AM

Mhoward and others, fantastic work! And imagine, we are now realizing that there are billions of other planets in the Universe, each with their own sights!

Posted by: Nirgal Oct 11 2006, 10:59 AM

QUOTE (dilo @ Oct 11 2006, 12:11 AM) *
A different version, with a polar-like projection of the Michael's stitch (something like a super-fish eye view...)


blink.gif blink.gif OMG, another all-time-best of candidate MER mood image !

What a great collaboration of a "on-the-fly"-Team"of four:
Micheal (superb original stitch) Tayfun (perfect blending out of the missing
sky parts), Ant103 (beautiful initial colorization) and Marco (mood and breathtaking lens geometry)

Awsome work !

Posted by: ngunn Oct 11 2006, 11:32 AM

QUOTE (Nirgal @ Oct 11 2006, 11:59 AM) *
blink.gif blink.gif OMG, another all-time-best of candidate MER mood image !

What a great collaboration of a "on-the-fly"-Team"of four:
Micheal (superb original stitch) Tayfun (perfect blending out of the missing
sky parts), Ant103 (beautiful initial colorization) and Marco (mood and breathtaking lens geometry)

Awsome work !


I'd like to second that wholeheartedly - thanks to all. I hope this will start a trend and we will begin to see more integrated sky-and-ground images here. I'm sure the data is out there to do it. For geology the ground may be almost sufficient, but for 'being there' we need skies. I say 'almost' for geology because in fact the distribution of light and colour over the whole sky is directly important for interpreting what we see in shadowed areas of the surface. On Earth we expect shadows to be bluer than areas in direct sunlight while on Mars the reverse is probably the case, so we need to adjust our mind-sets accordingly and images like this are very helpful.

Posted by: climber Oct 11 2006, 06:54 PM

It's just a try, OK ?
I'm not good at all to do it properly but, since the begining I like the idea of the rovers sitting under the stars.
Feel free to do it the right way (BTW, originals are not MY pictures wink.gif )


Posted by: imipak Oct 11 2006, 07:07 PM

> Feel free to do it the right way
>

Even my atrocious inability to control graphics programs can manage that...



wink.gif laugh.gif


(edit: sorry climber, it IS a good idea as anyone who has had the (increasingly unusual sad.gif ) privilege to see real dark skies knows... I didn't mean to be rude as I might have appeared smile.gif

Posted by: Shaka Oct 11 2006, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (climber @ Oct 11 2006, 08:54 AM) *
It's just a try, OK ?

And a very good idea it is, Climb! But I feel that the Blueberry Fields should be darker and 'bluer' than in this version, and the stars a bit more diffuse along the horizon to fully convey a sense of night..

Posted by: climber Oct 11 2006, 08:55 PM

QUOTE (imipak @ Oct 11 2006, 09:07 PM) *
(edit: sorry climber, it IS a good idea as anyone who has had the (increasingly unusual sad.gif ) privilege to see real dark skies knows... I didn't mean to be rude as I might have appeared smile.gif

imipak, don't worry, we have the same sense of humour!
I love your "work" biggrin.gif

Posted by: Astro0 Oct 12 2006, 10:38 PM

Here's my take on the Meridiani cloud image.


Desktop image: 333k
Enjoy
Astro0

Posted by: glennwsmith Oct 13 2006, 02:52 AM

Astro0, your sky/ground image is gorgeous as well.

Which brings me to an interesting question -- and forgive (and enlighten) me if this has been covered in another thread:

It is fascinating to me how the Martian atmosphere -- which is, what, only 1/100th as dense as earth's ? -- can be so effective in creating the diffusion and softening and atmospheric perspective which we associate with the earth, as opposed to the incredibly harsh images from the surface of the moon. Someone care to enlighten me on this topic, or point me to the relevant thread?

Posted by: fredk Oct 13 2006, 03:12 AM

The brightness (and pinkish colour) of the Martian sky is due mostly to the dust in the atmosphere. If there were no dust, the sky would be very dark blue, as you'd expect for such a thin atmosphere.

We actually see the Martian sky brightness and colour vary with the seasons, as there's more dust at certain times of the year (summer, I think).

Posted by: ngunn Oct 13 2006, 11:36 AM

QUOTE (Astro0 @ Oct 12 2006, 11:38 PM) *
Here's my take on the Meridiani cloud image.


Astro0 I like that version VERY much - almost exactly as I was seeing it in my head except that I had the colouration somewhat less intense and more greyish (and even I with very primitive means can tweak that).
I feel like I'm learning to breathe the Martian air now.

Posted by: general Oct 13 2006, 11:50 AM

QUOTE (jvandriel @ Oct 9 2006, 01:46 PM) *
I know there is a little program for finding the right Sol but i can't find it.

jvandriel


http://personal.strath.ac.uk/a.goddard/timestamp.swf

Posted by: jvandriel Oct 13 2006, 05:21 PM

Thanks general,

that is the one I was looking for.

jvandriel

Posted by: Tman Oct 13 2006, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (fredk @ Oct 13 2006, 05:12 AM) *
The brightness (and pinkish colour) of the Martian sky is due mostly to the dust in the atmosphere. If there were no dust, the sky would be very dark blue, as you'd expect for such a thin atmosphere.

Awesome pics here!

But something is still misty to me. Shouldn't it be so that on Mars the horizon sight appears in deeper shade of red than around the zenith that gets less reddish/pinkish/... and yet darker (and even a little blue) because of mainly less dust and also less atmosphere in the line of sight?

Posted by: ngunn Oct 13 2006, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (Tman @ Oct 13 2006, 08:40 PM) *
Awesome pics here!

But something is still misty to me. Shouldn't it be so that on Mars the horizon sight appears in deeper shade of red than around the zenith that gets less reddish/pinkish/... and yet darker (and even a little blue) because of mainly less dust and also less atmosphere in the line of sight?


My impression from the evidence I've seen and read so far is:- Close to the horizon pinkish/yellowish, think (caucasian) flesh tones. At zenith darker version of same colour, perhaps a tiny bit less yellow and more indigo but only a tiny bit, seldom if ever enough dust clearance to be midnight blue as it would be without dust. Clouds pearly silver. Some noctilucent clouds too.

Posted by: dilo Oct 13 2006, 09:57 PM

Wow, Astro0!
cool.gif

Posted by: dilo Oct 14 2006, 06:24 PM

I missed to process also Sol949 Michael's projection (now with some desaturation toward zenith...):


 

Posted by: dilo Oct 17 2006, 05:57 AM

QUOTE (mhoward @ Oct 9 2006, 05:04 PM) *
Wow! This gets better and better. Nice job, Ant. Somebody alert APOD!

And someone did:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061017.html
Even though biggest part of the work was made by the 3 guys in the credit list, I contributed to the final version they published with improved colorization.
I asked to add my name in the credit list, hoping isn't too late... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Ant103 Oct 17 2006, 08:28 AM

Wow! Incredible!
I'm agree with Dilo, he had contribute to this picture smile.gif

Posted by: Reckless Oct 17 2006, 08:37 AM

Dilo your picture (post 40) makes it look like Venus got very close to Mars ohmy.gif
Roy F

Posted by: Tesheiner Oct 17 2006, 08:37 AM

Congrats, you did it again! biggrin.gif cool.gif

Posted by: ugordan Oct 17 2006, 08:37 AM

Congrats to all involved for making APOD once again!
Sadly, this reminds me again of the difference in "approval" of publishing raw data products between MER and Cassini, but let's not spoil this moment.
Awesome image indeed!

Posted by: ngunn Oct 17 2006, 08:53 AM

QUOTE (ugordan @ Oct 17 2006, 09:37 AM) *
Congrats to all involved for making APOD once again!
Awesome image indeed!


Yes, well done and well deserved!
Question for anyone in the know: How many UMSF-mediated images have made APOD?

Posted by: ustrax Oct 17 2006, 08:55 AM

One more drooling fan joining the congratulations! biggrin.gif
This image just had to go somewhere... smile.gif

Posted by: djellison Oct 17 2006, 08:59 AM

Two from the fab-four (Husband Hill and Duck Bay), not sure about any other UMSF 'team work' images though

Doug

Posted by: Astro0 Oct 17 2006, 01:26 PM

Well done on the 'clouds' image hitting APOD.

For the so-called 'Fab Four' on UMSF, I think APOD could well mean: 'AMAZING PRODUCTS OF DEDICATION'.

Astro0

Posted by: mhoward Oct 17 2006, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (dilo @ Oct 17 2006, 05:57 AM) *
And someone did:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061017.html
Even though biggest part of the work was made by the 3 guys in the credit list, I contributed to the final version they published with improved colorization.
I asked to add my name in the credit list, hoping isn't too late... rolleyes.gif


I submitted it, and probably there was some confusion since I ended up submitting both versions. However it looks like your name has been added to the credits now, Marco, so job well done. :-)

I submitted it before Astro0 did his great version, by the way.

Posted by: dilo Oct 17 2006, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (Astro0 @ Oct 17 2006, 01:26 PM) *
Well done on the 'clouds' image hitting APOD.

For the so-called 'Fab Four' on UMSF, I think APOD could well mean: 'AMAZING PRODUCTS OF DEDICATION'.

Astro0


Thanks, Astro0. I think too your filled version deserves APOD publication....

Posted by: mhoward Oct 17 2006, 03:18 PM

By the way, they (APOD) did a great job with the links... one of the links is to the Rub al Khali mosaic. The colors in the two images compare favorably, I think:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061017.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050822.html

Posted by: glennwsmith Oct 18 2006, 05:41 AM

It didn't quite register with me what all this "APOD" stuff was about until I made my nightly pilgrimage to Astronomy Picture of the Day -- and then I had to come back to UMSF and add my congrats! Well done, guys.

Posted by: zoost Oct 18 2006, 07:09 AM

Hi everybody. This is my first post here, after lurking for a long while. I will not be posting here very much as I do not have any science background, and are not able to contribute much.

But I do have a question that google doesn't seem to answer. Is it clear what these clouds consist off? And if or how the substance off these clouds condense and "rain"?

Posted by: edstrick Oct 18 2006, 09:44 AM

All information indicates these clouds are cirrus-type water ice clouds. Atmosphere temperatures are generally too high for CO2 dry-ice clouds, and the atmosphereic water vapor levels when these clouds are present are high enough (though very low) that clouds are expected to for.

CO2 clouds probably form during the polar night and were observed by the topography-profiling laser on Mars Global Surveyor.

Viking Orbiters repeatedly saw an unusual cloud at very high altitude in a topographically fixed location they concluded was also probably CO2 ice. The cloud had very sharp, high contrast features indicating fast formation and sublimation and was at an altitude where temperatures marginally allowed CO2 ice. The topographic location was mid southern latitude where vertical oscillations of a "jet stream" was thought to be induced by big topographic features like the Hellas basin.

Posted by: Gray Oct 18 2006, 01:09 PM

Zoost,
Just to elaborate a bit on edstrick's answer. Cirrus clouds are composed of tiny ice crystals. When the crystals start to fall they vaporize very rapidly in the dry martian atmosphere. They would never reach the surface, at least in the low and mid latitudes. Things might be somewhat different at the poles, but someone who knows more about the subject than I would have to explain that.

Posted by: efron_01 Oct 25 2006, 12:39 PM

I did read somewhere that it could snow around the poles of mars. Which would be a GREAT thing to see (one day, with a future lander) or perhaps MRO can show the snow clouds seen from above one winter.

Posted by: climber Oct 25 2006, 05:42 PM

I try often to relate what we see on Mars to what we see on Earth.
Here is what I've seen 2 days ago from my home :



I feel the "stitch" add for a more Martian-like picture.
Enjoy smile.gif

Posted by: MarkL Oct 25 2006, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (efron_01 @ Oct 25 2006, 12:39 PM) *
I did read somewhere that it could snow around the poles of mars. Which would be a GREAT thing to see (one day, with a future lander) or perhaps MRO can show the snow clouds seen from above one winter.

Snow in the form we (And Calvin of cartoon strip fame) know and love is highly improbable on Mars. There's a small likelihood though that microscopic ice crystals could precipitate out of the atmosphere, but they have a long long way to fall. Falling ice crystals would also be quite volatile in the low pressure of the Martian atmosphere and I doubt they'd stand a chance of actually making it to the ground. Still, I'd love to read anything suggesting it might be possible.

Posted by: elakdawalla Oct 25 2006, 07:35 PM

I was trying to look around for some references that would explain whether the "snow" that's mentioned for Mars actually fell from the sky or just precipitated in place (making it more what I'd call "frost" though it would be deeper). I always thought it precipitated in place but there are lots of researchers using the word "snow" so now I'm really confused. Anybody have any insight?

--Emily

Posted by: climber Oct 25 2006, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Oct 25 2006, 09:35 PM) *
I was trying to look around for some references that would explain whether the "snow" that's mentioned for Mars actually fell from the sky or just precipitated in place (making it more what I'd call "frost" though it would be deeper). I always thought it precipitated in place but there are lots of researchers using the word "snow" so now I'm really confused. Anybody have any insight?
--Emily

I'm not trying to help on this, but I imagine that "your" frost, Emily, could be blown by the wind and become to look like "real" snow for a short period of time.
Welcome back to brain (snow) storm UMSF biggrin.gif

Posted by: djellison Oct 25 2006, 07:50 PM

The MCS guys would be the first port of call I would have thought - I'm not sure what they're measuring, how they measure it and what they already know about it- but I've heard mention of them looking for snow like things in the polar regions at night.

Doug

Posted by: Myran Oct 25 2006, 08:02 PM

QUOTE
elakdawalla wrote: I always thought it precipitated in place but there are lots of researchers using the word "snow" so now I'm really confused. Anybody have any insight?


Well I dont have any real insight, but I have always thought that the 'snow' imagined by Viking actually was hoarfrost.

Posted by: ngunn Oct 25 2006, 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Myran @ Oct 25 2006, 09:02 PM) *
Well I dont have any real insight, but I have always thought that the 'snow' imagined by Viking actually was hoarfrost.


Hoarfrost implies saturated air at the surface. Clouds imply saturated air at altitude. Opponents of 'snow' seem to be saying there must always be an unsaturated layer in between where descending ice particles would sublime. I don't see why.

Posted by: djellison Oct 25 2006, 10:04 PM

Yes - that assumption presumes that any ice particle that forms will automatically sublimate in unsaturated air, yet if it's cold enough, it will not.

Doug

Posted by: MarkL Oct 26 2006, 03:23 PM

Here's a link that provides one viewpoint.

http://www-mgcm.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/HTML/FAQS/rain.html

Posted by: MichaelT Oct 26 2006, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 25 2006, 09:59 PM) *
Hoarfrost implies saturated air at the surface. Clouds imply saturated air at altitude. Opponents of 'snow' seem to be saying there must always be an unsaturated layer in between where descending ice particles would sublime. I don't see why.


If the current vapor pressure was equal to the saturation vapor pressure throughout the atmosphere you'd have very thick clouds (somthing like nimbostratus on Earth, at least you'd have more clouds than are observed at lower altitudes). And there aren't any, that is what we see. Thus, the water vapor pressure is lower than the saturation vapor pressure below the martian clouds. Therefore, any ice crystals that fall down would sublime long before they'd reach the surface.

On Earth there are situations where falling precipitation (snow) does not reach the surface, too, because the air layer below is very dry. As the falling snow evaporates/sublimes, the underlying air gets enriched with water vapor until the saturation vapor pressure is reached. So, consecutively, the snow can reach lower altitudes until the whole airmass below the clouds is very moist and the snow reaches the surface. That only works well if the dewpoint is below 0°C between the clouds and the surface (otherwise the air mass does not get cooled below 0°C and the snow melts). That just happened in Denver, CO. Yesterday they had 17°C, but the dewpoint was very low (<0°C) below the clouds. And today you have snow in Denver and temperatures around 0°C. That resulted from the process described above.
Such a process could not occur on Mars under current atmospheric conditions as you need *a lot of snow* = thick clouds to moisten the whole layer of air below the snow producing clouds. There simply isn't enough water vapor.

Michael

Posted by: elakdawalla Oct 26 2006, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (MarkL @ Oct 26 2006, 08:23 AM) *
Here's a link that provides one viewpoint.

http://www-mgcm.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/HTML/FAQS/rain.html

Thanks for this link -- just in time for me to cannibalize it for my Planetary Radio Q and A biggrin.gif

--Emily

Posted by: ngunn Oct 26 2006, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (MichaelT @ Oct 26 2006, 05:00 PM) *
If the current vapor pressure was equal to the saturation vapor pressure throughout the atmosphere you'd have very thick clouds (somthing like nimbostratus on Earth, at least you'd have more clouds than are observed at lower altitudes). And there aren't any, that is what we see. Thus, the water vapor pressure is lower than the saturation vapor pressure below the martian clouds. Therefore, any ice crystals that fall down would sublime long before they'd reach the surface.


Sure, that's what we see in the daytime. But in the middle of a polar winter night?

Posted by: MichaelT Oct 26 2006, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 26 2006, 04:37 PM) *
Sure, that's what we see in the daytime. But in the middle of a polar winter night?


Yes, that is certainly true.

I remember now that I read a publication by some french scientists who modelled clouds induced by orography over the north polar regions (observed through MOLA?). These clouds were made of dry ice particles (CO2). I think they wrote something about possible small amounts of precipitation from these clouds, but CO2-ice crystals, not water. Can't find that publication any more, unfortunately.

Michael

Posted by: Myran Oct 27 2006, 02:00 PM

From the link provided by MarkL I borrowed the folloing quote: "But theoretical calculations seem to suggest that generally such snow would not tend to reach the surface."

And I tend to agree, look at http://members.cox.net/tucoan/pics/s-viking2-22i103.jpg and I think you will agree with me that this look quite more like frost than a result of actual snowfall. The white frost/snow dont cover the entire scene as after a snowfall.

Yet on thehttp://members.cox.net/tucoan/pics/index.htm are found the word 'snow' are used again. So the word seems to have been repeated quite often t describe whats seen on those images.

As a sidenote, on that page we see that the martian sky might display colours quite different from the rusty red that seem to dominate the ones made by the excellent image manipulators of this forum.

Posted by: djellison Oct 27 2006, 02:06 PM

That's a very early morning image, with the sun off to the right, and the image has been stretched quite a bit to get the detail of the ground to show well, so the sky has been saturated.

Some superb results from the PDS released Viking camera data - http://www.astrosurf.com/nunes/explor/explor_vik.htm

Particularly - http://www.astrosurf.com/nunes/explor/viking/22i103calstrech.jpg

Doug

Posted by: Gsnorgathon Oct 27 2006, 03:16 PM

http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/clouds&snow.html

Posted by: ustrax Oct 27 2006, 03:26 PM

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/07/31_peroxide.shtml

Posted by: vikingmars Oct 27 2006, 08:14 PM

smile.gif Here is a serie of 2 VL2 images showing the gradual condensation of water frost on Mars and then its full cover on the surface. The 1st image was taken in summer. The 4th image was taken early spring and shows its sublimation.
Enjoy !

 

Posted by: 4th rock from the sun Oct 28 2006, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 27 2006, 03:06 PM) *
Some superb results from the PDS released Viking camera data - http://www.astrosurf.com/nunes/explor/explor_vik.htm


Doug


Hi,

I processed those images, based on the gain settings on the Viking cameras and the color filter wavelenghts.

The MER images here: http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/ provide a good idea of the general brightness and color tone of Mars. They are, as best as I know, the only proper calibrated Martian images, because they were based on a large number of filters, that cover all the visible spectrum (MER images generated by using the 6 filters with gamma correction).

The important thing is that, after applying my processing protocol, all Viking images look consistent with the MER and Pathfinder results. Even sunsets and sunrises.

One thing that I couldn't correct was the camera gradient in the upper part if the image. So the sky still looks as if it darkens a lot above the horizon...

Posted by: tedstryk Oct 28 2006, 03:58 PM

I believe there is some kind of obstruction that causes the darkening. Another problem with Viking color, which I am sure you have encountered, is that since the images were 8-bit selectively cut down to 6-bit for transmission, there are a lot of washed-out skies.

Posted by: 4th rock from the sun Oct 28 2006, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (vikingmars @ Oct 27 2006, 09:14 PM) *
smile.gif Here is a serie of 2 VL2 images showing the gradual condensation of water frost on Mars and then its full cover on the surface.



Yes, very nice processing and an interesting set of data. When I was playing with the Viking data, I think that there were few panoramas that showed the distribution of the frost around the site. One interesting thing would be to create some vertical projections of those and chart the evolution of the frost patches. I don't know if that was done at the time, but I think it would be an interesting project, provided that there are enough images.

Posted by: 4th rock from the sun Oct 28 2006, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (tedstryk @ Oct 28 2006, 04:58 PM) *
... since the images were 8-bit selectively cut down to 6-bit for transmission, there are a lot of washed-out skies.


Yes... that's apparent when I corrected the images for gain. See this one for example: http://www.astrosurf.com/nunes/explor/explor_vik.htm

I didn't try to change the original look of the data much, but in some cases I Just filled the sky with a uniform "general Mars Sky color".

Posted by: tedstryk Oct 28 2006, 08:49 PM

That is what I was referring to...I have done the same. But my work has always been focused more on super-resolution...which is why I was thrilled when you draped your color data over some of my black and white images.

Posted by: 4th rock from the sun Oct 28 2006, 09:13 PM

http://www.astrosurf.com/nunes/explor/viking/21i093_cal.jpg
Sorry, I wanted to include a direct link to this image.

Posted by: tedstryk Oct 28 2006, 11:11 PM

When I worked with that image, I didn't even try to mosaic it wit that very overexposed set. http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=245119004&context=set-72157594283865874&size=o, I did some color cloning near the left side of the image to get rid of color noise caused by "salt and pepper" in the raw data.

Posted by: edstrick Oct 29 2006, 09:11 AM

The Viking Lander cameras had a clear-glass dust-shield that vignetted the extreme top of the field of view (I think 40 deg above the horizon) The vignetting was different for each color channel (not filter.. the cameras used physically separate photodiodes for each color band. 3 vis, 3 infrared channels, 1 broadband, 1 high opacity sun channel, and 4 focus-steps for high resolution imaging. The vignetting proved somewhat useful as it let Viking image closer to the sun in the sky for atmosphere scattering properties that would have been otherwise possible.

During the extended mission, they jettisoned one or two of the dust shields but saw little effect: not much accumulated dust.

Posted by: efron_01 Oct 29 2006, 12:58 PM

Thanks all for the answers..

Snow or no snow.. White Mars is as MAGICAL as is Earth in with a white (snow/ice) cover

Posted by: dilo Jan 13 2007, 12:01 PM

First results from the new smart software...
This is animation from 10 NavCam frames from Sol956, published only today:


(I flattened a little the frames in order to make clouds more visible in the bright/dark areas).
Clouds seems to generate near the center. ohmy.gif

Posted by: Bob Shaw Jan 13 2007, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (dilo @ Jan 13 2007, 12:01 PM) *
First results from the new smart software...
This is animation from 10 NavCam frames from Sol956, published only today:

(I flattened a little the frames in order to make clouds more visible in the bright/dark areas).
Clouds seems to generate near the center. ohmy.gif



Gorgeous!

Now, about that colourised version...


Bob Shaw

Posted by: MarsIsImportant Jan 13 2007, 06:29 PM

That is absolutely cool!

Now we need animation from a dust devil too. Capturing a landslide (as long as the rover is not involved) would be neat also--but would the images be made fast enough under that circumstance?. What is the time lapse for these images?

Posted by: Deimos Jan 13 2007, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Jan 13 2007, 06:29 PM) *
What is the time lapse for these images?


About 30 sec/per image. See http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~lemmon/mer_dd.html.

Posted by: jvandriel Jan 27 2007, 09:14 PM

Here is the colourised version of the clouds animation.

Taken on Sol 956.

jvandriel

 

Posted by: fredk Jan 30 2007, 05:55 PM

Some details on the sol 956 sequence in http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20070129a.html It turns out it wasn't captured using the new software.

Posted by: djellison Feb 7 2007, 11:36 AM

mad.gif and biggrin.gif - nice to see it on such a well known website - BUT....
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070206_st_mars_clouds.html

Not giving proper credit AT ALL. Not my place to correct them, but I hope the people who actually made that image get in touch wite Space.com and get them to correct that. Even if it were a NASA released image - the credit would be NASA/JPL or NASA/JPL/Cornell

Not good work there by Ker Than.

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Feb 7 2007, 11:41 AM

QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 7 2007, 11:36 AM) *
Not giving proper credit AT ALL.


Man...That's so disrespectful... mad.gif

EDITED: On the "cover" the credits is NASA and GRL...
What does GRL stands for?

EDITED...again: GRL = Geophysical Research Letters?

Posted by: djellison Feb 7 2007, 11:50 AM

This is how is SHOULD be credited...
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061017.html

Doug

Posted by: ustrax Feb 7 2007, 11:53 AM

Did you already give that information to space.com?
If you didn't...

Posted by: mhoward Feb 7 2007, 12:02 PM

I shot off a quick email to space.com. I don't particularly care about the attribution myself, but they might want to get it right. APOD did it properly, so I sent them that link.

P.S. I don't plan to pursue it further, so if anybody else wants to, go ahead.

Posted by: Ant103 Feb 7 2007, 03:49 PM

huh.gif Space.com must gathering all the information about the contributors of the image before publish it.
I'm agree with Michael, [edit]"it's disrespectfull" ©Micheal Howard. tongue.gif
I will email the author too.

Posted by: ustrax Feb 7 2007, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (Ant103 @ Feb 7 2007, 03:49 PM) *
I'm agree with Michael, it's disrespectfull.


Hey! See if you give the http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3324&view=findpost&p=82891 to that statement! mad.gif
tongue.gif

Posted by: djellison Feb 7 2007, 06:22 PM

They've changed it - and still got it wrong.

Posted by: mhoward Feb 7 2007, 07:06 PM

Close enough, I guess.

You missed the point, Ant: I never called it 'disrepectful', ustrax did.

Posted by: efron_01 Sep 22 2008, 10:16 PM

QUOTE (efron_01 @ Oct 25 2006, 02:39 PM) *
I did read somewhere that it could snow around the poles of mars. Which would be a GREAT thing to see (one day, with a future lander) or perhaps MRO can show the snow clouds seen from above one winter.


Wow.. 2 years later . I forgot about... but re-found this site... to reply to myself biggrin.gif
and now.. I know that my wish came true.. great clouds have been seen ... (by Phoenix) recently over the Pole
I am an extremely happy man...

So glad that I can experience this all..


Posted by: efron_01 Sep 22 2008, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (jvandriel @ Jan 27 2007, 11:14 PM) *
Here is the colourised version of the clouds animation.

Taken on Sol 956.

jvandriel


Stunning !!

Posted by: Citymarks Dec 13 2010, 07:00 PM

It has been a while for Oppy without storms and clouds ? When they usually start ? In Earth month :: may // june ?

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)