TiME Options

[centsworth_II]

...I expect the images we get back would be pretty underwhelming...

The descent images should be fantastic! Imagine seeing the shoreline in detail as the probe lands! Also, I'm thinking that eventually the floating probe may be blown onto shore. Hopefully the camera will have remained clear enough to get a good look. That's one thing I worry about, windblown and splashed stuff coating the optics.

[tfisher]

Does anyone know what liquid methane/ethane is like at Titan surface temperatures? Is the picture we should have in mind like rubbing alcohol, or gasoline, or motor oil? Maple syrup? Molasses?

[Juramike]

Does anyone know what liquid methane/ethane is like at Titan surface temperatures? Is the picture we should have in mind like rubbing alcohol, or gasoline, or motor oil? Maple syrup? Molasses?

Gasoline. Not as viscous as water, even at those temperatures. And definitely not as "clingy" as water on glass. Any splashes of liquid on the lenses should creep right off. Not sure about any residual materials, however. But that's one of the reasons TiME is such an exciting mission: just what other things are in those lakes, anyway?

[djellison]

Moreover - TiME will be quite a warm thing - so heat will drive off and evaporate any splashes - residual residue isn't out of the question. The camera should be fairly high above the surface anyway, so it unlikely to get a splashing - especially given how smooth we know the lakes to be. Something over 500 watts of heat are involved in the 130 watts of electricity generated by the ASRG

[nprev]

When exactly can we expect the final mission selection? The press release just says that there will be another review next year, no month given.

[ngunn]

Imagine seeing the shoreline in detail as the probe lands

I was under the impression that it would aim to splash down a long way from land, probably too far for the shoreline to be visible during descent. Also I seem to remember it being said that it would all happen in darkness or at most twilight. Am I misremembering? Of course any image at all would be nice but I'd still back the mission even if there were no images, just great chemistry.

[centsworth_II]

I was under the impression that it would aim to splash down a long way from land... it would all happen in darkness or at most twilight. ...

"Earth & the Sun are above the horizon for the 3 month mission lifetime, during which TiME collects and transmits data on the lake and atmosphere." http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/pages/ima...Stofan-TIME.pdf

Of course even at noon it's twilight on Titan, especially at the pole, I imagine. But I expect the imaging system should be designed to get good pictures throughout the entire mission.

As far as distance from the shore, the Huygens panoramas cover quite a distance. I don't know how much better the Time descent images may be or how high the probe may be and still capture shots of the shoreline.

[nprev]

Thanks for those slides, Cents.

I'd actually call this mission a validation of the ASRG in three environments: space, alien atmosphere, and cryo hydrocarbon fluid exposure. Apparently, the ASRG provides enough power for DTE, which is a wow. Considering the fact that there's a Jupiter flyby in the trajectory, what are the odds of a teeny little ridealong cam, perhaps provided by another program...?

(Disclaimer: If such a cam would add too much complexity to systems integration, then fuggedaboudit. Prime mission is too exciting & important to screw around with.)

[rlorenz]

Gasoline. Not as viscous as water, even at those temperatures.

Actually, Mike, can be a little more viscous than water if it is ethane-rich.
Maybe even double the viscosity of water if Cordier's model composition
with several per cent propane and butane dissolved in is anywhere close.
see http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rlorenz/viscositywaves.pdf

[DFinfrock]

Thanks for those slides, Cents.

Thanks seconded Centsworth!
I had no idea the destination lake on Titan was bigger than Lake Superior on Earth. What a mission.

[tedstryk]

Time seems like quite a timely proposal. Congratulations!

[Juramike]

[The lake mixture] can be a little more viscous than water if it is ethane-rich.

Wow! The estimated viscosity of ethane compared to methane is completely counterintuitive. I wonder what the reason is? I'da thought that it was only intermolecular interactions via dispersion forces, and that one saturated C-H electron cloud would look like another. Off the top of my head, at those low temperatures I'd also guess that the two CH3 groups would be gauche to each other (hindered rotation), negating any hyperconjugation and thus increased polarization of the molecular orbitals.

(Note that N2 is not viscous - likely due to intermolecular lone pair repulsion).

Is it a size thing?

[djellison]

a timely proposal.

Get out.

[SFJCody]

Time seems like quite a timely proposal. Congratulations!

TiME should be an aerobot rather than a boat. After all, TiME flies!


I could go on, I've got a million of these...

[nprev]

I see that the UMSF bad pun tradition is alive & well.

I suggest that if the secondary target is selected, TiME should be renamed "Nautical Exploration With Sonar/Wideband Evaluation [of] Exochemistry [at] Kraken".

I'll get my hat.