Suggestions - Discovery, New Frontiers, Flagship Missions, What Are Your Ideas? Options

[PhilHorzempa]

Perhaps most of us will never be a PI on one of NASA's Discovery, New Frontiers
or Flagship missions. However, let's not have that stop us, the UMSF community
from suggesting, and describing, mission concepts that have been rattling around
in our brains for some time. I'll start the ball rolling.

My fantasy mission (Discovery or NF class?) would be the Jupiter Flyer 1. This
would be an unmanned airplane, named after the Wrights' first airplane, that
would fly through the atmosphere of Jupiter. Its exterior would be covered
with cameras, showing views in all directions as it glided through the atmosphere
looking for thermals.

I know that most talk of Jupiter probes concerns deep atmospheric probes,
such as the one on the Galileo mission. However, I want to see photos of
towering cumulo-nimbus clouds, not just streams of numbers on P, T and
composition.

That's it in a nutshell. Are there any more takers?


Another Phil

[Toma B]

I think it would be good idea to re-fly Galileo with small modifications like Cassini-like HGA...

[Bob Shaw]

Here's my wish list:

o Juno-class gas-giant/ice giant orbiters

o A series of gas-giant/ice-giant balloon probes

o Venus balloons

o A dedicated high speed interstellar precursor mission using solar sail and ion-drive technologies with possible outer planet and KBO flybys

o Lunar MER-class rovers

o Mars seismometry and weather network

Some are big, some are small, some are small multi-missions which might be treated as big... ...you get the idea!

Bob Shaw

[djellison]

Mars Network for me please I'd suggest 120kg landers ( so double the size/mass of Beagle ), approx 3-5 of them with a parental Orbiter designed to act as relay in a higher Mars orbit ( several thousand km ). BUT... .Mars is out of the scope of New Front, Flagship, and Discovery.


SO....

Discovery Class:
Contour 2

New Frontiers:
Venus Balloon that dips to and from the surface for sample collection, imaging, then going higher for relay and cool-off.

Flagship
Europa mission. Distant Jupiter orbit with high powered imager for mapping of all Gallileans, then multiple Europan flybys for very high resolution imaging, some form of radar/sounding instrument, and impacting microprobes.



Doug

[centsworth_II]

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned my fantasy mission: The long-duration balloon ship on Titan, though realistically I agree that Europa should not be preempted.

Lately I have been fantasizing what I would do if I had Bill-Gates-type wealth. First, I would be proud (in a humble way) to have a Centsworth Foundation doing exactly what the Gates foundation is doing. Then, I would use four or five billion of my remaining wealth and indulge myself.

I fantasize contacting NASA and telling them that I would donate 3 billion to fund a flagship Titan mission. Presumably this would be a balloon mission but my only stipulation is that the Titan mission be in addition to and not a replacement for another, government funded flagship mission.

I would give an additional 1 billion to uprade the DSN to support the Titan and other NASA missions.

[ljk4-1]

Small probes, perhaps in the size and appearance of soccer balls, released into
the rings of Saturn (or any other planet with similar debris around it) where they
can gently bounce off the particles, taking measurements and images as they
literally get knocked around. Perhaps even have the ability to attach themselves
onto any particularly interesting particles for longer analysis.

Some could even be sent into Saturn after their primary missions in the rings to
radio back data on the planet's upper atmosphere before burning up.


Not my original idea, but one I had mentioned earlier in this forum: Putting
instruments on the planetoid Icarus to study the Sun using the rock as a heat
and radiation shield when it gets closer than Mercury during its circuits of our star.
Of course the setup could also be used to study Icarus itself.


Sending drop probes into the geysers on Neptune's moon, Triton. That moon
by itself deserves a dedicated orbiter/lander mission.


Are the volcanoes of Io too hot for our current technology to have any probes
survive a plunge into them? Would a Deep Impact/Ranger style mission to get
close-up images of an Ioian volcano before their demise in the caldera be worth
it scientifically? The coolness factor is not a question here.

[Astrophil]

Visionary stuff, especially the Jupiter cloud mission (pretty! let's send it down the side of the Great Red Spot!) and the Io idea.

If one were looking to name the hypothetical Io mission, one could do worse than Empedocles - Greek philosopher, very interested in all matters cosmic, finished himself off by chucking himself into Mount Etna. although the volcano then spat out his sandal. (He's already got an asteroid named after him, but this mission seems perfect for him...)

[ngunn]

I'm with centsworth II - Titan must be on the agenda. I know there are political sensitivities as some consider any talk of a Titan mission harmful to the Europa project. I also note that OPAG has determined that any Titan mission should be Flagship class. Whilst agreeing that Titan deserves a flagship mission in due course (the sooneer the better!) I wonder if something smaller could be sent in the meantime. I'm thinking of a minimal sized high orbiter with simple cameras to monitor the global weather and other possible active processes over a really long period. The aim would not necessarily be to greatly advance understanding of the processes (a job for the flagship) but to keep a log of them continuously over at least a whole Titan year (or preferably two) so that future detailed observations over more limited timescales can be set in their longer temporal context. As this doesn't seem to fit with NASA's plans perhaps everybody else should get together to see if something can be managed . . .

This sort of mission could be duplicated comparatively cheaply and used for other bodies where secular changes over years and decades are expected, such as Chiron or eccentric KBOs at perihelion.

After that? We have to find out what the heck Sedna is. I'd go for a fast flyby with a series of impactors targeted on different-looking areas.

[chris]

Rovers and balloons on Titan, rover on Triton, already been mentioned. The MERs have spoiled me - I want to see pictures like I'm there, on the surface.

I'd suprised that no-one has mentioned really detailed investigation of the geysers on Enceladus. Quite how to do that. though, is tricky.

Chris

[centsworth_II]

Visionary stuff, especially the Jupiter cloud mission (pretty! let's send it down the side of the Great Red Spot!)

I'm afraid that Jupiter's clouds are the sorts of things that look much more impressive from 100,000km than from ten or even a thousand km. And from within? Maybe great for non-imaging experiments, but but how great a picture can you take from inside a cloud? One possible exception could be if a balloon could be manuvered into the eye of a gas giant storm.

The big attraction of Titan and Venus balloon missions (from a photographic standpoind) is that they can get BELOW the clouds, something not possible on the gas giants. Anyone looking for extrordinary images should stay away from gas giant balloons and stick to Titan and Venus. IMHO

[Guest_Myran_*]

My own 5 cents.

Discovery class of mission: Lunar polar lander.

New horizons class: Triton orbiter & penetrator.

Flagship missions: Europa orbiter & penetrator

2: One Io explorer remote sensing only but with the option of a small sample return of material collected from orbit.

[Guest_AlexBlackwell_*]

New horizons class: Triton orbiter & penetrator.

I'd really love to be on the TMC review panel for this New Frontiers proposal

[volcanopele]

Once elected president, I will ensure that the following flagship/flagship+ class missions are rammed through Congress:

1. The Io Volcanic Observer: This mission would conduct 45+ flybys of everyone's favorite moon, conducting remote sensing observations as well deploying a network of penetrators with seismographs to study the distribution of active faults in Io's crust. This mission would orbit Jupiter and flyby Io in order to increase the length of the mission and lower the cost of the mission. The surface would be mapped at 125 m/pixel with higher resolution (< 50 m/pixel) over a significant portion of the surface. this mission would be designed to last at least 2 years in order to study time-variable phenomena at Io and in the rest of the Jupiter system.
2. Titan Orbiter/Zepplin: This would be a Titan orbital mission designed to map the surface using a high-resolution, 2-micron camera. The surface would be mapped a resolution of 200 m/pixel. The mission would also include a radar-mapper and altimetry, to complete the radar mapping conducted by Cassini. A piggy-back zepplin would explore Titan from an altitude of 10 km. The blimp would allow for much higher resolution observations of the surface, and direct sampling and analysis of surface materials (through decendable gondola). The blimp mission would last 45 days; the orbiter 1 to 2 years.
3. Neptune Orbiter+Triton lander: Cassini-class mission at Neptune with a Triton rover. The rover would be designed to explore Triton south polar region and would investigate the nature of the plumes. Due to the time -difference, the rover would have to be capable of autonomous investigation. The orbiter would be used to first search for a landing site, then used to investigate Neptune, Triton, and its system of rings and small moons. An end of mission scenario of landing on Proteus possible.
4. The Asteroid version of CONTOUR: Like CONTOUR, this Discovery-class mission would flyby a series of asteroids, examining the chemical makeup and geologic histories. At least 10 asteroids would be encountered from a wide variety of types. Such a mission would greatly expand out knowledge of asteroids by greatly increasing the number explored upclose.

[Bob Shaw]

Once elected president, I will ensure that the following flagship/flagship+ class missions are rammed through Congress:

1. The Io Volcanic Observer: This mission would conduct 45+ flybys of everyone's favorite moon, conducting remote sensing observations as well deploying a network of penetrators with seismographs to study the distribution of active faults in Io's crust. This mission would orbit Jupiter and flyby Io in order to increase the length of the mission and lower the cost of the mission. The surface would be mapped at 125 m/pixel with higher resolution (< 50 m/pixel) over a significant portion of the surface. this mission would be designed to last at least 2 years in order to study time-variable phenomena at Io and in the rest of the Jupiter system.
2. Titan Orbiter/Zepplin: This would be a Titan orbital mission designed to map the surface using a high-resolution, 2-micron camera. The surface would be mapped a resolution of 200 m/pixel. The mission would also include a radar-mapper and altimetry, to complete the radar mapping conducted by Cassini. A piggy-back zepplin would explore Titan from an altitude of 10 km. The blimp would allow for much higher resolution observations of the surface, and direct sampling and analysis of surface materials (through decendable gondola). The blimp mission would last 45 days; the orbiter 1 to 2 years.
3. Neptune Orbiter+Triton lander: Cassini-class mission at Neptune with a Triton rover. The rover would be designed to explore Triton south polar region and would investigate the nature of the plumes. Due to the time -difference, the rover would have to be capable of autonomous investigation. The orbiter would be used to first search for a landing site, then used to investigate Neptune, Triton, and its system of rings and small moons. An end of mission scenario of landing on Proteus possible.
4. The Asteroid version of CONTOUR: Like CONTOUR, this Discovery-class mission would flyby a series of asteroids, examining the chemical makeup and geologic histories. At least 10 asteroids would be encountered from a wide variety of types. Such a mission would greatly expand out knowledge of asteroids by greatly increasing the number explored upclose.

Jason:

You'd been thinking about this for a while, eh?

Can I be Veep? I got a list too, see? Oh, damn, just remembered what happened to the last Veep with a satellite - he had to go into the movie business instead!

Bob Shaw

[Bart]

4. The Asteroid version of CONTOUR: Like CONTOUR, this Discovery-class mission would flyby a series of asteroids, examining the chemical makeup and geologic histories. At least 10 asteroids would be encountered from a wide variety of types. Such a mission would greatly expand out knowledge of asteroids by greatly increasing the number explored upclose.

Hear, hear! This has been a dream mission for me ever since I read about the 'Asteroid Belt Explorer' (ABE) in Greg Bear's Eon. I always thought a mission on an Earth-return trajectory with about a two year orbit would be an efficient way to start exploring the Main Belt.