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Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 4 2022, 03:11 AM

I am starting a new thread for this mission which should fly this year.

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 4 2022, 09:28 AM

Any rough idea about the date (month)?

Thorsten

Posted by: mcaplinger Feb 4 2022, 06:21 PM

QUOTE (Thorsten Denk @ Feb 4 2022, 01:28 AM)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 28 2022, 03:37 AM

https://twitter.com/Columbia1938/status/1494818072376614927

This tweet suggests a summer 2022 launch date for IM-1, about a 3 or 4 month delay. I can't vouch for the veracity of the tweet, but other commentators say near the end of the year, so this is more encouraging.

Phil

Posted by: mcaplinger Mar 28 2022, 05:14 PM

As of 3/25/2022, https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ says 3Q 2022 and https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=IM-1-NOVA says "mid to late 2022".

Posted by: Phil Stooke May 10 2022, 04:33 PM

IM-1 likely near the end of the year now (Q4 according to a chart at the Lunar Surface Science Workshop now underway).

News from that LSSW meeting, only 30 minutes old as I type: Lunar Flashlight, a cubesat designed to survey volatiles in shadows at the south pole, was to fly on Artemis-1 but is now - this is the news - manifested as a secondary payload on the IM-1 Falcon 9. Stated by Barbara Cohen at the meeting.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jun 3 2022, 09:54 PM

Set to launch on 22 December (this year...) according to NASA:

https://www.nasa.gov/launchschedule/

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 11 2022, 02:52 AM

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/leag2022/pdf/5027.pdf

This link goes to an abstract for the upcoming LEAG annual meeting. The abstract is a summary of the CLPS program so far.

For me the most intriguing thing is a brief reference to the Intuitive Machines IM-1 mission (launch late 2022) which says that it will land in Mare Crisium.

The last statement from Intuitive Machines themselves is that the landing site is on the Aristarchus Plateau. There was an LPSC abstract on mapping the landing site. Their orbital debris (ODAR) report said they would land between Mare Serenitatis and Mare Crisium. I took that to be a simple mixup between east and west longitudes with the real target still at Aristarchus. But now this puzzling statement!

So, is the landing site the Aristarchus Plateau, or Mare Serenitatis (which was stated by Intuitive at LEAG a couple of years ago) or somewhere between Serenitatis and Crisium, or in Crisium itself? Does 'between Serenitatis and Crisium' mean somewhere in the middle, or does it mean that the choice is between Serenitatis and Crisium?

It's like trying to follow Chang'e 4. Maybe we will get clarification at the meeting. I will report on it.

Phil

Posted by: antipode Jul 11 2022, 05:19 AM

Perhaps a bit O/T but from that paper Phil posted we get this:

TO CP12 (PRISM1B): Two PRISM payload suites
are included in the delivery to Schrödinger Basin on the
lunar farside in 2025. Instruments include long-lived
seismometers [8], a heat flow drill with a
magnetotelluric sounder investigating the subsurface.
TO CS3 (Science): This science delivery is
planning to land at the farside mid-latitudes in 2025.
Low-frequency radio astronomy with standalone
operations through the night will be performed

Whats the plan for data relay for these farside missions?

another Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 12 2022, 07:17 AM

Several possibilities are being discussed. Commercial relay services are being considered separate from CLPS, and also relay services provided by the CLPS mission, by release of a relay satellite into orbit before landing or as a rideshare. Relay via the Gateway is also possible.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 12 2022, 07:25 AM

See more here:

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/Exploration/Path_set_for_commercial_communications_around_the_Moon

https://www.sstl.co.uk/what-we-do/lunar-mission-services

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 22 2022, 06:58 AM

Here is the announcement of the Schrodinger mission:

https://www.draper.com/press-release/nasa-awards-draper-73-million-deliver-suite-payloads-moon-2025

It says the mission will deploy two small relay satellites in lunar orbit.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 22 2022, 07:08 AM

And back to IM-1, here is Jeff Foust retweeting (from Thomas Zurbuchen) its expected launch date as January 2023:


https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1550220907607629831


so upcoming lunar launches (no earlier than dates) as currently stated:

Artemis 1 end of August/early September carrying several lunar and other cubesats*

ispace Hakuto-R to Atlas crater c. November 2022

Astrobotic PM-1 to Lacus Mortis c. December 2022 (they are still giving this likely date, others might expect a slip)

Intuitive Machines IM-1 to Aristarchus Plateau (probably, despite some confusion in various statements) c. January 2023


* I assume talk of Artemis 1 and future Artemis missions will be outside our scope here on UMSF, but the small cubesat missions should be OK. One will attempt a landing, the Japanese OMOTENASHI mission. It is only a tech demo but will still be interesting to watch.


Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Aug 19 2022, 03:28 AM

https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1560343096533176324

A tweet from Marcia Smith at the Planetary Science Division Town Hall, with a graphic of CLPS missions. Once again IM-1 is said to be landing at Mare Crisium. Not a squeak out of Intuitive, though - and I have asked them via their somewhat ineffective website. Come on, IM, you can do better than this.

Phil

Posted by: mcaplinger Aug 19 2022, 01:42 PM

OT but given Masten's recent bankruptcy I'm surprised to see them still listed.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Aug 19 2022, 05:47 PM

Yes, surprising. Strictly speaking the mission is not cancelled but its chance of proceeding is very small, as far as I can see.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 15 2022, 02:44 AM

Ghe Intuitive Machines website:

https://www.intuitivemachines.com/

has just undergone a redesign, making it much more useful in advance of its first mission. There is a list of payloads:

https://www.intuitivemachines.com/_files/ugd/7c27f7_149bfeccc38c4e409dd6634a345969ab.pdf

and clearly it is being set up to support the upcoming flight. No word still on landing sites, but I am thinking they are probably keeping several in play until the launch, so a delay of a day or two in launch allows them to shift to the west to maintain an early morning landing. If that is the case it makes sense to start in the west (Crisium) so later landings can go to Serenitatis or Aristarchus Plateau as needed. Basically the same strategy as the first Apollo landings used.

Phil

Posted by: Olympusmonsuk Sep 15 2022, 09:22 AM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 15 2022, 03:44 AM)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 15 2022, 04:36 PM

It's a very important meal. You can't just grab a sandwich from Pret.

Phil


(Oh, OK, I'll fix it)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Sep 16 2022, 05:21 PM

Aha - now we have real news.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/in-a-bid-to-expand-its-moon-business-intuitive-machines-will-go-public/

Apart from the funding aspect of that article, at the end there is a statement that NASA has requested a south polar landing instead of a near-equatorial one. Re-planning the trajectory and so on has caused a delay to March 2023 for launch.

Elsewhere there was a comment that a 4th IM mission will be purely commercial, not a CLPS mission. 'Commercial' in this sense should be taken to include the possibility of a flight on behalf of another nation's space agency as well as purely business-oriented partners. (No, I don't have any special knowledge of the situation, but I am so used to seeing comments that no commercial clients have deep enough pockets that I wanted to point out that possibility. UAE is already flying a rover on a Japanese mission and looking at a similar arrangement with China, and Canada wants to fly a lunar mission, so there are candidates already known and could easily be more).

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke May 27 2023, 01:59 AM

Intuitive update. At the Lunar Surface Science Workshop yesterday, Jack Burns gave a presentation on ROLSES, an instrument on IM-1. It identified the landing site quite precisely, just east of the very degraded crater Malapert A. The coordinates are 80.31 S, 1.24 E. Flight now expected in the later part of the 3rd quarter of this year (c. September).

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Jul 7 2023, 08:12 PM

This is the landing site for IM-1 as currently understood. It looks like the lander has been boxed up for transport to KSC.

Phil

Posted by: mcaplinger Oct 28 2023, 12:03 AM

Mission slipped to mid-January: https://spaceflightnow.com/2023/10/27/intuitive-machines-targets-launch-to-the-moon-in-mid-january/

Posted by: Phil Stooke Nov 9 2023, 07:32 PM

If there are no more delays (a big IF, certainly) Astrobotic's lander will launch before IM-1, currently aiming for 24 December. If Intuitive Machines launches on 12 January the landings would actually happen close together, round about the 19th of January, and SLIM is also set to land at the same time.

It is possible that we will see three landing attempts in a single week. If we assume every landing happens about 2 days after sunrise (so descent imaging is not too complicated by shadows) they would occur in the order of increasing west longitude, i.e. SLIM, then Intuitive, then Astrobotic. Dates might be roughly January 18, 20 and 23 (Thursday, Saturday, Tuesday).

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Dec 5 2023, 10:27 AM

Astrobotic seems to be Jan 25.
https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/1729942846130606349

Thorsten

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 5 2023, 05:54 PM

Yes, they are landing 4 days after sunrise and aiming for a 10 day mission, so my working assumption of landing 2 days after sunrise put me 2 days out.

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Dec 6 2023, 10:08 AM

It will be interesting to see if the other dates hold.
If so, there would still be three landings within one week (seven days)!
Thorsten

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 20 2023, 12:02 AM

The landings look different now! SLIM in January still, but with Astrobotic and Intuitive both delayed a month, they could both land in the same week, around 20-23 February.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Dec 23 2023, 07:22 AM

The Intuitive Machines IM-1 lander has been named Odysseus.

https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1738205371481595985

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 3 2024, 10:40 AM

Final preparations underway for launch of first Intuitive Machines lunar lander (by Jeff Foust)
https://spacenews.com/final-preparations-underway-for-launch-of-first-intuitive-machines-lunar-lander/

There is not yet an official specific date for the launch, only "a three-day launch period for the mission in mid-February".
It might be NET Feb14.
Landing attempt on the Moon, if launched this month, will be Feb22.

Thorsten

Posted by: Decepticon Feb 4 2024, 02:57 AM

Does this lander contain the drill as originally proposed?

I do not see this instrument listed in recent posts.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 5 2024, 12:17 AM

The Trident drill is on IM-2 later in the year.

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 12 2024, 07:30 PM

Btw, the launch will be Wednesday Feb 14, at 05:57 UTC.
For the Americans, this is the night Tue to Wed, 12:57 AM EST.
In less than 1½ days!

Thorsten

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 14 2024, 04:42 AM

Delayed now, to the 15th.

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 14 2024, 08:42 AM

Yes, and 8 minutes later.
Feb 15 at 06:05 UTC now.

Thorsten

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 14 2024, 10:13 PM

Frustrating to me... Intuitive Machines has not released a definitive map of their landing site (welcome to the world of commercial lunar exploration... Astrobotic didn't either). This screenshot from Quickmap shows three locations defined by coordinates, from an LSSW presentation, a PSAC presentation and the LROC website, and also a box showing the location of an LRO image at:

https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1321


Remember that the image background on Quickmap can contain registration errors. But that's not enough to account for all this variation. The LRO site is much smoother than the points further south.

Phil

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 15 2024, 06:15 AM

Launch has occurred and IM-1 is currently in a parking orbit before TLI burn.

Edit: Separation from Falcon 9. Gorgeous views.

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 15 2024, 08:37 AM

Is there any information if they have successfully established radio contact with the lander and that everything is nominal?

Thorsten

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 15 2024, 08:57 AM

At the end of the NASA stream, yes there was a callout of data packets coming in. Some clapping too.

Posted by: Ron Hobbs Feb 15 2024, 03:04 PM

"IM-1 mission Nova-C class lunar lander has launched on SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket and successfully commissioned in space by establishing a stable attitude, solar charging, and radio communications contact with the Company’s mission operations center in Houston."

Intiuitive Machines Update

Posted by: cIclops Feb 15 2024, 06:49 PM

data link screenshot: https://twitter.com/amsatdl/status/1758175702724030899

live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pPBCIpVGsM

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 15 2024, 07:50 PM

Is the landing time already publicly known?
The date is in one week, Feb22.
But what hour?

Thorsten

Posted by: kenny Feb 15 2024, 09:13 PM

I have also been wondering that... I want to put an alert in my diary.
As has already been noted, this private mission is less forthcoming than NASA or some other governmental missions.

Posted by: kenny Feb 15 2024, 10:41 PM

SpaceflightNow is stating the landing will be late on Feb. 22.... hardly very precise, but at least provides some definition around the landing time....

" The mission, dubbed IM-1, lifted off at 1:05 a.m. EST (0605 UTC) at Launch Complex 39A. It kicks off a roughly eight-day journey to the Moon, culminating in a landing late in the day on Feb. 22."


https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/02/13/live-coverage-spacex-intuitive-machines-to-launch-falcon-9-rocket-on-moon-bound-mission/

The critical first engine firing (commissioning burn) is coming up in an hour so at about midnight Feb. 15 UTC. (19:00 ET).

"Once the lander completes the engine commissioning, there are up to three trajectory correction maneuvers that are short firings of just a second or two. That’s followed by the lunar orbit insertion (LOI) burn, which lasts about seven minutes.

The lander will then fly in a circular, low lunar orbit (LLO) of 100 kilometers above the Moon’s surface for about 24 hours, which is followed by the descent orbit insertion (DOI), which comes about 75 minutes ahead of landing. "

Posted by: kymani76 Feb 15 2024, 11:13 PM

The LROC DTM and rectified orthophotos of the Malapert A landing site are available from https://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_rdr/NAC_DTM_MALAPERTA01.

Posted by: nogal Feb 16 2024, 01:09 AM

Intuitive Machines just issued a 4-page PDF file with a Vehicle Health Update.

Link: https://www.intuitivemachines.com/_files/ugd/7c27f7_6f08ded687bb4950bff004e566d8e2f0.pdf

They are preparing for the engine commissioning manoeuvre.
Fernando

Posted by: kenny Feb 16 2024, 08:11 PM

Update on IM-1

The engine commissioning burn due last night was delayed.
It seems it has not yet happened.

https://www.intuitivemachines.com/_files/ugd/7c27f7_0c7c9c1dddb0422694b16e6ec4c28242.pdf

The IM-1 mission Nova-C class lunar lander continues to be in excellent health, in a stable
orientation and remains on schedule for a lunar landing opportunity on the afternoon of
February 22. The original mission structure allocated a Commission Maneuver (CM) and three
trajectory correction maneuvers to position for Lunar Orbit Insertion. This approach provided
flexibility in the mission’s engine burn schedule to allow for learning as we operate the lander
in the vacuum of space. Adjusting for this learning process is why the team chose to delay the
burn on February 15.
Communication delays and outages are expected when executing lunar missions, which we
accounted for in our mission planning. While preparing for the CM burn last night, flight controllers
experienced intermittent uplink and downlink data communications between Nova-C and the
ground stations, potentially impacting our ability to collect the critical information required to
support the CM burn and follow-on performance analysis.
As we prepared for the first-ever in-space ignition of a liquid methane and liquid oxygen engine,
we reviewed our Earth-based test data against the data we’ve accumulated in space. The inspace performance demonstrated that it takes longer to chill the liquid oxygen feed line than
the Earth-based testing. After understanding the in-space liquid oxygen feedline requirements,
we adjusted and uploaded the CM burn preparation timeline and increased the onboard event
sequence timer.
Again, the IM-1 mission Nova-C class lunar lander is in excellent health, and we expect to continue
to provide mission updates at least once a day.

Posted by: kymani76 Feb 17 2024, 01:06 AM

Posted by: kymani76 Feb 17 2024, 01:36 AM

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 17 2024, 03:38 AM

https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1758677812217545020

That burn has been done successfully now.

Phil

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 17 2024, 10:05 AM

https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1758677819310104891

"...lunar landing opportunity on the afternoon of February 22."

I suppose that this is US time, so for Europe it should be in the (late) evening.
With the Moon well over the horizon.

I love to see the Moon during a Lunar landing,
just the imagination that this happens AT THIS MOMENT RIGHT THERE!

Thorsten

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 17 2024, 10:15 PM

First pics -- wow! (from their https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1)

Posted by: nogal Feb 17 2024, 11:48 PM

As Phil noted, the burn went well and the "engine firing included a full thrust mainstage engine burn and throttle down-profile necessary to land on the Moon" (see entry on this page https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1 .
The third image from Hungry4info's post shows most of Australia. I wonder what the Earth-Moon trajectory looks like in 3D...
Fernando

​

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 19 2024, 10:17 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyG5WtD8Gjk

Posted by: AJAW Feb 19 2024, 10:48 PM

QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Feb 17 2024, 11:15 PM)

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 19 2024, 11:14 PM

If I'm thinking of the object you are, it's the upper stage of the rocket that launched it.

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 20 2024, 09:46 AM

Yes, in the first image a few minutes after separation, it's very obvious!
https://www.intuitivemachines.com/_files/ugd/7c27f7_ef85f351ed5f44f19e312b145fb671b8.pdf

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 20 2024, 11:24 AM

Lunar Landing is planned for Thursday Feb 22 at 22:49 UTC.
Lunar Orbit Insertion one day before. Hour I don't know.

Thorsten

Posted by: nogal Feb 21 2024, 12:31 AM

All seems to continue to go well for the IM-1 mission. The 1st and 2nd TCMs were so successful that the 3rd TCM is not needed and was cancelled.

See https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1

Today is Lunar Orbit Insertion, at about 100km altitude. Odysseus is supposed to make about 12 2-hour orbits before attempting landing.
From this orbit it will descend to 10km, which takes about an hour, followed by powered descent. So I'm guessing that LOI will be around 21:00 UTC today.

The details above, along with a wealth of other information, are in the PRESS KIT (https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1?lightbox=dataItem-ls22wsqq)

Fernando
PS - I hope the sky is clear!

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 21 2024, 08:11 AM

According to Jonathan McDowell, the first perilune is today at 14:40 UTC.
https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1760180109925929154

"IM-1 is now inside the lunar gravitational sphere of influence and heading towards a 100 km perilune at 1440 UTC"
"I estimate the lunar orbit insertion burn needs a delta-V of 600 m/s"

I suppose that LOI will be done at perilune (?)

Thorsten

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 21 2024, 03:26 PM

LOI successful!
https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1760323743270756500
Thorsten

Posted by: nogal Feb 21 2024, 03:43 PM

So, Jonathan McDowell was right and I'm very happy that another difficult step is behind Odysseus!
Now, to keep the landing time, either more orbits are needed or the orbital period is much longer than the 2 hours I understood from the Press kit.Given that the 92 km circular orbit is a bit lower than the one originally mentioned, perhaps the former?
Fernando

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 21 2024, 10:19 PM

https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1760426223073734704

Pic from orbit!

Phil

Posted by: nogal Feb 22 2024, 01:01 AM

Update to the landing time. An earlier opportunity at 22:30 UTC



Fernando

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 22 2024, 05:35 PM

Updated landing time again. https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1760703551766933872
15:24 CST

Note that this is an hour earlier than all the earlier expected landing times, for everyone planning their day around this. Perhaps they're coming down an orbit early. Not sure.

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 22 2024, 07:45 PM

Updated landing time again. https://twitter.com/Int_Machines/status/1760748848991903878
17:24 CST

Note that this is an hour later than the original expected landing times, for everyone planning their day around this.

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 22 2024, 10:05 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg2ffigGcYM

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 22 2024, 10:48 PM

Apparently the lander's laser altimeter isn't working. They're involving some other NASA assets (I didn't quite follow how exactly) to compensate.

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 22 2024, 10:50 PM

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/langley/nasas-laser-navigation-tech-enables-commercial-lunar-exploration/ (apparently not a demo now!) They really want to land now rather than troubleshoot.

Posted by: nogal Feb 22 2024, 11:08 PM

Just minutes from PDI. About 10km altirude and 1100km downrange...

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 22 2024, 11:19 PM

PDI has started and is going well. NDL is working!
(Thanks, Explorer1, for helping clarify the situation)

Posted by: nogal Feb 22 2024, 11:21 PM

PDI ended, now in terminal descent.. 2 mins to touchdown

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 22 2024, 11:30 PM

It's been on the ground for a few minutes now but no contact.

Posted by: B Bernatchez Feb 22 2024, 11:38 PM

On the lunar surface!

Posted by: Pavel Feb 22 2024, 11:39 PM

They are getting faint signal.

Posted by: nogal Feb 22 2024, 11:44 PM

Broadcast has ended. Last coments pointed to a successful landing, so congratulations to all the teams.
Now, lets wait for those "3rd person view" images!

Posted by: marsbug Feb 22 2024, 11:50 PM

Per multiple fairly reliable interested social media accounts (including AMSAT -DL who are actively tracking the signal themselves) and following updates over on NASASpaceflight : A weak signal has been received from the lander on the surface. There was an 8 degree roll excursion towards the end of the EDL. Palms up I am only guessing, but wonder if the roll in question was one to get the lander in the right orientation for landing - in which case the antenna's pointing might be off, perhaps accounting for the weak signal (this is Scott Manley's suggestion).
Not perfect perhaps, but promising.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 12:17 AM

https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html currently has the big Madrid antenna engaged with "LND1" = "Lunar Node 1" at the moon, which https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/marshall/nasa-to-demonstrate-autonomous-navigation-system-on-moon/. (Not showing any signal right now, for the avoidance of doubt.)

There's also a https://status.ghy6.goonhilly.org/ for the GHY-6/Merlin antenna at Goonhilly (Cornwall, UK) which is involved (possibly the primary antenna?) for the IM-1 mission, and was mentioned on the webcast.

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 23 2024, 01:39 AM

Update!

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 23 2024, 03:58 AM

I am really looking forward to these images! And confirmation of the exact landing point.

Phil

Posted by: xflare Feb 23 2024, 08:44 AM

from reading twittr this morning, some are having some doubts over how successfuly IM-1 landed.

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 23 2024, 10:51 AM

The antenna simply might point into the wrong direction.
https://twitter.com/coastal8049/status/1760926397168546247

Thorsten

Posted by: Quetzalcoatl Feb 23 2024, 11:45 AM

Bonjour,

Really !!!

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/a-little-us-company-makes-history-by-landing-on-the-moon-but-questions-remain/

Posted by: Huguet Feb 23 2024, 12:05 PM

Can China help with the Queqiao-1 or with the Queqiao-2 satellites? If Antenna direction is the problem.

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 23 2024, 01:25 PM

Politics aside, they must be very incompatible systems. There's no equivalent to MRO for relaying at the moon (LRO can only make photos).

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 23 2024, 01:37 PM

And Queqiao-1 is on L2, behind the Moon.
The antenna, if it points wrong, might be a few 10s degrees off, not 180°.
Not to mention that Queqiao-1 would be below the horizon for IM-1.

Thorsten

Posted by: Huguet Feb 23 2024, 02:10 PM

QUOTE (Thorsten Denk @ Feb 23 2024, 10:37 AM)

And Queqiao-1 is on L2, behind the Moon.
The antenna, if it points wrong, might be a few 10s degrees off, not 180°.
Not to mention that Queqiao-1 would be below the horizon for IM-1.

Thorsten

Posted by: MichaelJWP Feb 23 2024, 02:36 PM

Appears a little more hopeful today in this latest tweet:

"Lunar Surface Day One Update (23FEB2024 0818 CST)
Odysseus is alive and well. Flight controllers are communicating and commanding the vehicle to download science data. The lander has good telemetry and solar charging.
We continue to learn more about the vehicle’s specific information (Lat/Lon), overall health, and attitude (orientation). Intuitive Machines CEO Steve Altemus will participate in a press conference later today to discuss this historic moment. Press conference information will be coordinated with NASA and published shortly."

https://x.com/Int_Machines/status/1761032731729739804?s=20

Though no photos yet ...

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 23 2024, 02:40 PM

They for sure will keep the photos for the press conference.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 06:14 PM

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-intuitive-machines-to-discuss-historic-moon-mission-today/, said press conference is scheduled for 2200 UTC (5pm EST).

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 23 2024, 07:31 PM

QUOTE (Huguet @ Feb 23 2024, 09:10 AM)

Posted by: Thorsten Denk Feb 23 2024, 07:57 PM

And even if it were, it would be a "moving target".
If finding the Earth alrady is difficult, what then about a fast moving satellite?

Btw, Press Conference at 22:00 UTC.

And the EagleCam is alive, but it was deliberately NOT (yet) deployed.

Thorsten

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 23 2024, 08:12 PM

DSN Now shows Lunar Node 1 from Madrid (data rate of 0 however).

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 08:31 PM

And the https://status.ghy6.goonhilly.org/ currently shows its S-band receiver "IN LOCK" to IM1, which I didn't catch it doing yesterday.
(Earlier today it was talking to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aditya-L1)

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 23 2024, 10:12 PM

Looks like landing sideways is a trend for landers in 2024...good thing there's solar panels on multiple sides!
How do they know it's a rock keeping it propped up, with no photos?

Posted by: MahFL Feb 23 2024, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Feb 23 2024, 10:12 PM)

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 10:19 PM

I think the story ?Steve told was that there was 2mph residual lateral velocity (and 6mph downward), and they think it tripped on a rock.
The previous story that it was upright was based on seeing tank telemetry saying gravity was in the X direction; but that telemetry has been determined to be stale; now the tank is telling them gravity is on the Z axis. (E&OE)

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 10:23 PM

They've only showed one new pic, from 10km up. Still trying to get surface pics down.
Hoping to get an image from LROC this weekend.

I think they just said the notion of using the NASA lidar to help landing was somewhat anticipated, not completely improvised.

Posted by: MahFL Feb 23 2024, 10:36 PM

Vertical landing speed was 6 times planned, and the 0 lateral planned speed ended up being 2mph, hence it fell over.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 10:37 PM

QUOTE (Thorsten Denk @ Feb 23 2024, 07:57 PM)

And the EagleCam is alive, but it was deliberately NOT (yet) deployed.

Posted by: MahFL Feb 23 2024, 10:40 PM

OMG they forgot to remove the manual "before flight" safeties on the lasers.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 10:41 PM

Oof, the reason the laser rangefinder didn't work was that a safety switch (it's not eye-safe) wasn't disabled, and couldn't be disabled remotely by their software. They first discovered this while in lunar orbit (which was more elliptical than they'd planned; not sure if they'd have tried it if the orbit was nominal. [edit:] Irene Klotz asked: and no, they wouldn't have otherwise tried it before powered descent; would probably not have found out until 5 min before landing 😬)
[edit] Clarified later that it was a physical switch with no software override, not just that the software they had didn't know how to do it.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (JTN @ Feb 23 2024, 10:23 PM)

Posted by: PaulM Feb 23 2024, 11:40 PM

It was interesting to hear that both the IM-1 and the SLIM lander currently operating on the Moon working but are lying on their sides. I guess that the way to mitigate against the same problem happening in future landers is to fit a small solar panel on every surface of a lander to provide solar power no matter what the orientation is.

Posted by: JTN Feb 23 2024, 11:43 PM

Other bits and pieces I noted from the presser:

• They're still trying to sort out comms -- the lander is still in its cycle of trying different antennas, restarting the radio etc, because it doesn't have a stable heartbeat from Earth; they're still trying to get it out of that mode. They described a 'beat frequency' where they almost get there but then the configuration is switched under them. Steve/Tim thought maybe the engineers had that licked as the presser started. (In response to a question from Eric Berger about data rates, which all this changing around means there isn't a good answer to)
• They expect to get 'most of' the mission data down once comms are stabilised. (in response to Jeff Foust)
• However, they hope that the antenna pair pointing at the lunar surface, unusable for comms, will yield lemonade in the form of data about multipath interference, a concern with comms from the south pole.
• They've now turned a lot of flight instrumentation off for power management purposes, but what the IMU said before that makes them think the top end is resting on a rock or something, it can't be completely tipped over. Also solar power reconstruction agrees. [Hopefully EagleCam will answer this definitively]
• Sun impinging on solar arrays, charging batteries OK, currently 100% charged.
• Their software based on "NASA's core flight software"; very grateful to inherit its well-engineered abilities to reload and reinitialise.
• One of the early desperate ideas after the lack-of-laser was discovered was to do the descent with simulated data(!)
• Working out a procedure to upload the software patch for laser contingency (which involved rebooting GN&C) without losing control was fiddly; their FlatSat testing showed that e.g. the RCS thrusters could act on noise during the reboot and do bad things.
• A roll manoeuvre near landing was planned -- they required a specific landed orientation for thermal reasons (one half painted white, the other black) and comms reasons (antenna orientation -- fixed antennas for mass reasons). (Also, having antennas at the top would have been great with a nominal landing, but was a pain in flight, requiring reorientation for comms with Earth.)
• Some of the stations in their "lunar data network" (comprising Goonhilly, etc) turned out not to have enough transmit power to keep carrier lock at lunar distances.
• Maximum 9 days until sunset with any configuration of the solar panels. Maybe an extra day or so's life off battery. Electronics not expected to survive lunar night (but solar arrays should), but they plan to listen at next sunrise, just in case.

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 23 2024, 11:49 PM

A very informative (and dramatic!) press conference, all without any photos. Now we wait for images.

Hopefully the Nova-C, with its drill, goes fine, so it doesn't just drill vacuum...

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 24 2024, 04:10 AM

"Looks like landing sideways is a trend for landers in 2024...good thing there's solar panels on multiple sides! How do they know it's a rock keeping it propped up, with no photos? "

The legs stick out at the bottom so if it was just resting on a flat surface and the legs were intact the body would be tilted down, with its intended top on the ground. But they have a measure of the gravity vector and also information on the position of the residual fuel in the tanks, which apparently tells them the body is horizontal. The model they showed had its head up on a rock, but he also said it might be that the legs are in a depression. Either could give a horizontal body. He said something about a leg hitting the rock and toppling over. When i think about the geometry of that it seems to work better if the legs hit the side of a crater and it falls over on the rim with the legs still in the crater. But all speculation until we get some pics.

Phil

Posted by: MichaelJWP Feb 24 2024, 10:49 AM

Interesting press conference, though I heard there was a 2m/s lateral velocity that was meant to be nulled, I didn't pick up an explanation as to why it wasn't, did anyone?
It would seem that this is even more important if you design a lander with the apparent C of G higher than the landing leg attachments (unlike Surveyor with it's wide stance)

Posted by: Paolo Feb 24 2024, 11:59 AM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 24 2024, 05:10 AM)

Posted by: AJAW Feb 24 2024, 12:17 PM

QUOTE (MichaelJWP @ Feb 24 2024, 11:49 AM)

Posted by: StargazeInWonder Feb 24 2024, 05:41 PM

With these new AI video tools, it should be easy to make a simulated blooper reel of failed planetary landings. A lunar lander tipping over; Venera trying to probe the surface right where its lens cap popped off; a Soviet Mars lander touching down perfectly, then being covered by its parachute; the Galileo probe missing the clouds that cover 99% of Jupiter, the Genesis return capsule smacking into the desert. We've definitely established that Murphy's Law applies everywhere in the universe.

Posted by: Pando Feb 24 2024, 07:36 PM

They should design these things with landing legs like a tetrahedron so that it doesn't matter what orientation the craft ultimately ends up at after it lands. All instrumentation would be on a gimbal in the center that keeps itself oriented.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 24 2024, 08:18 PM

"a Soviet Mars lander touching down perfectly, then being covered by its parachute;"

If the HiRISE identification is correct, that parachute hypothesis is not true.

https://www.uahirise.org/ESP_031036_1345



Phil

Posted by: HSchirmer Feb 24 2024, 09:33 PM

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 25 2024, 07:44 AM

https://iloa.org/ilo-x-instruments-are-on-the-moon-surface-teams-hope-for-milky-way-galaxy-and-lunar-images/

The astronomy instrument has some news and a thumbnail image from the cruise.

Phil

Posted by: ollopa Feb 26 2024, 11:39 AM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 25 2024, 07:44 AM)

Posted by: centsworth_II Feb 26 2024, 03:25 PM

"Prior to landing, we believe one or both of our instruments may have also taken an image of the Moon"

The Moon image they refer to is "prior to landing," but given the orientation, I wonder if they may get a look at the horizon.

Posted by: Marz Feb 26 2024, 03:51 PM

"Images from NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Camera team confirmed Odysseus completed its landing at 80.13°S and 1.44°E at a 2579 m elevation."

https://7c27f7d6-4a0b-4269-aee9-80e85c3db26a.usrfiles.com/ugd/7c27f7_357496b3ba404948ba24ad63081b5d23.pdf

It looks like it may have landed on the edge of a very small crater? The last 2 images from the above pdf I presume are from LRO. Also, the comm window is limited; perhaps only 24 more hours left before contact is lost. From the press conference, it would be considered fortunate for IM1 to survive the lunar night.

Posted by: JTN Feb 26 2024, 04:12 PM

(that rather opaque PDF URL being linked from https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1; as well as the LROC image, it includes a rather washed-out image from the surface, and another from approach)

https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1360, confirming that's the source of the orbit image, and with blink comparison etc.
Includes "Odysseus came to rest at https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/projections?extent=1.0337246,-80.1753373,1.8343734,-80.0795866&id=lroc&showGraticule=true&showTerrain=true&queryOpts=N4XyA&trailType=0&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEBmZcAsjYIHYFcAbAyAbwF8BdC0yioA&proj=27&time=2024-02-24T13:57:56.389Z, 2579 m elevation, within a degraded one-kilometer diameter crater where the local terrain is sloped at a sporty 12°."

(I've been watching the https://status.ghy6.goonhilly.org/ on and off. When the S-band status suggests it's transmitting to IM-1, the S-band "downlink receiver" status has been sometimes "in lock" but often not, whereas when the antenna's talking to Aditya-L1 it seems steadily "in lock". Dunno whether much can be read into that, such as whether they got IM-1 out of the cycling-between-antennas-etc mode. I guess AMSAT-DL might have been paying closer attention, but I don't have easy access to Twitter/X to check what they might have said.)

Posted by: john_s Feb 26 2024, 05:44 PM

The LROC blink image also shows a new bright patch next to the lander- arrowed here. Could that indicate a bounce?

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 26 2024, 06:49 PM

Could be, John.

Here is the location of the site in an image I posted earlier, showing different targets mentioned before landing.

Phil

Posted by: ollopa Feb 26 2024, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (john_s @ Feb 26 2024, 05:44 PM)

The LROC blink image also shows a new bright patch next to the lander- arrowed here. Could that indicate a bounce?




John

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 26 2024, 08:19 PM

Great observation. I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out.

Phil

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 27 2024, 01:23 AM

https://twitter.com/ILOA_Hawaii/status/1762203591962767780

ILO has images on the ground, hi-res apparently, and will be shared soon.

Phil

Posted by: mcaplinger Feb 27 2024, 03:37 AM

FWIW, DSS-56 Madrid is receiving data at 50 kbps from Lunar Node 1 right now.

Posted by: JTN Feb 27 2024, 11:54 AM

Various of the outlets reporting on IM's prognosis of going dark today suggest EagleCam won't get a chance to deploy (dunno if based on an actual source).
E.g., https://spacenews.com/intuitive-machines-expects-early-end-to-im-1-lunar-lander-mission/, which links to https://news.erau.edu/headlines/eaglecam-updates-embry-riddle-device-lands-on-moon (last updated Sunday), which has some details of how it will/would deploy:

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 27 2024, 01:46 PM

QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Feb 26 2024, 10:37 PM)

Posted by: JTN Feb 27 2024, 04:29 PM

Update from https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1 dated <2h ago:

Posted by: mcaplinger Feb 27 2024, 10:02 PM

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/it-turns-out-that-odysseus-landed-on-the-moon-without-any-altimetry-data/ has some interesting items. Apparently more images will be released tomorrow.

As for whether this was a success -- I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes about the Scott expedition:

Posted by: JTN Feb 27 2024, 10:20 PM

The article mentions a press conference tomorrow. https://investors.intuitivemachines.com/news-releases/news-release-details/nasa-intuitive-machines-discuss-moon-mission-science-successes confirms that will be at 2pm ET (19:00 UTC).

Posted by: JTN Feb 28 2024, 06:54 PM

https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1 from a little over four hours ago. Not much info beyond "Odysseus continues to generate solar power on the Moon" and implication it was still talking.

Yesterday I set up logging for GHY-6 (aka 'DSS-59', apparently) https://status.ghy6.goonhilly.org/ (should have thought of it earlier). Haven't fully digested logs yet, but so far I can see that in last night's IM-1 session, GHY-6 was transmitting on S-band between 0300 and 0710 GMT (possibly not continuously, haven't checked), and at no point did the GHY-6's S-band receiver show as being 'in lock'.
(Yesterday's Eric Berger article talked about them using IM-1's 'powerful Quasonix transmitter' for the first time; dunno if/how that would affect the reported status.)

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 28 2024, 07:11 PM

Wow, now that's a broken leg!

Posted by: Huguet Feb 28 2024, 07:14 PM

More upright that they initially thought...
Tilted 45o?

Posted by: Explorer1 Feb 28 2024, 08:15 PM

Eaglecam was ejected, but no images yet....

Posted by: JTN Feb 28 2024, 09:42 PM

Bits and pieces I took away from the press conference not already mentioned:

• The reason the patched-in NDL altimetry data was not used during landing was that they forgot to hardcode an accompanying 'data valid' bit to 1, to match the production laser's behaviour, so the nav algorithm just ignored the new data so they landed on opnav/IMU alone. Didn't realise they had landed without lidar until day 3 after landing, when they started getting telemetry data down. (In response to Jeff Foust, Irene Klotz)
• Fair amount more detail on postmortem of the laser safety cutoff business, differences between engineering and flight units, etc. (Which I didn't catch will enough to summarise, except to note that there was a range safety requirement not to have an active laser before launch, as well as general eye safety.) Class IV laser.
• On landing, they saw a 'spike' [pressure I assume] in the engine combustion chamber, implying that the engine bell was contacting the surface. (It was sat upright with the engine firing for 'a period of time' after.)
• Trajectory was described as fastest transfer from earth to lunar orbit since 1972 (if I heard that right; in response to question from WSJ).
• There's a US flag mounted on the lander described as 'certified flight hardware' from the 1970 Apollo programme, on the Moon 'like it should have been 53 years ago'. [Implying it's from Apollo 18 or something? Bearing rule 1.6 in mind.]
• They've got all (or at least most?) available data on the ground. ~350 megabytes of science and engineering data. The 8h/day that Parkes' 64m receive-only antenna can operate is their high data pass, when most of it comes down. Antennas facing away from earth; no use of HGA after landing.
• Tim Crain gave verbal description correlating features on the new landed image where horizon is visible to features on LROC image (in response to question from Eric Berger).
• They've 'collected a ton of multipath data', including on how multipath effects change as the lunar surface cools.
• EagleCam powered up and ejected this morning; they think it landed ~4m away; but 'either in the camera, or WiFi to lander, something not working correctly'. Vague talk of flying another one on a future mission.
• SCALPSS (plume cameras) not active during landing (due to: 'hardware failure in serial port', and also lack of trigger [similar to EagleCam maybe?]), so provided no data on plumes, but they got instrument working this morning; plus they think images from other cameras will provide useful insights on plume anyway.
• On ROLSES (a radio instrument), excess heat during cruise caused a frangibolt to pop out an antenna earlier than planned; they got some bonus science from this. Rest of antennas deployed on surface as planned, and returning useful data.
• They think LRO's LOLA should be able to make use of the retroreflector. [I don't know where this is on the vehicle, hence how the unplanned orientation will affect it]
• Sue Lederer confirmed that NASA science data will go in PDS.
• "Projected end this evening" "within about 5 hours from now" [implying roughly midnight UTC]. They'll deliberately shut it down to some extent ('we'll tuck Odie in'), in such a way as to allow it to wake up if possible next lunar day. The one solar panel facing upward is favourably positioned to catch lunar sunrise.
• Talking about changing future missions to have more cameras and antennas, in response to experience with this one.

Posted by: JTN Feb 28 2024, 09:55 PM

Three new images were shown during the press conference.
The two that Huguet already posted are now up in https://www.intuitivemachines.com/_files/ugd/7c27f7_90794d5877434b46a9ba1dffea3307aa.pdf.
Here's my screencap of the third (which I think is just the un-re-projected version of one of the others, but additionally shows the horizon, I think).

Posted by: Gavin Eadie Feb 28 2024, 11:42 PM

It's quite difficult to undistort the fisheye image but think I see damage on at least three landing gear assemblies. "A" .. maybe OK; "B" .. completely detached; "C" .. just torn thermal blanket?; "D" .. if this is a pad, that strut is badly out of place. I need to go back to the Press Kit to determine if the "tilted image" (also released today) is viewing the same panel as this one is -- if so, "A" is certainly damaged and "C" is enough off the regolith for the pad to throw a shadow. Also, if "B" is completely detached, it came from the far side of IM-1, implying that the direction of motion is upward in the photo. A lot of guesses, I know ..

Posted by: Gavin Eadie Feb 28 2024, 11:50 PM

.. a comparison of in-flight and post-landing structure.

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 29 2024, 12:42 AM

Here is an updated moon map showing landings and impacts. I am classifying IM-1, SLIM and Luna 23 as successful landings (as I would Mars 3 and Beagle 2, based on what we know now). on the basis that they were able to operate to some degree after reaching the surface. If you are in bits on the surface it was not a successful landing. If you can transmit anything or start to deploy solar panels (Beagle 2) it was a successful landing. The question of whether or not it was a successful mission is a different matter and not one I am concerned with here. I am of course clarifying this because of the endless chatter about this topic in other places.

Phil

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 29 2024, 03:06 AM

A couple images from ILOA. in one you can see the surface and a detached leg on it. I also share a photo I found (can't recall where) showing the damaged legs from a before/after perspective. It helps make sense of the leg situation at landing.

Posted by: Bill Harris Feb 29 2024, 03:41 AM

"It's quite difficult to undistort the fisheye image but..."
Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop both have functions that can normalize a fisheye lens.
I've not tried it yet, but I'll report back.

Posted by: Hungry4info Feb 29 2024, 04:31 AM

Simeon Schmauß already has done this and produced astounding results!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/semeion/53558691348/

Attached is a section of the image, looking toward the crater, with bits of regolith sent flying by the engine plume.

Posted by: djellison Feb 29 2024, 04:36 AM

Here's what I was able to get out of it.

Posted by: Gavin Eadie Feb 29 2024, 05:46 AM

If you do unspeakable enhancement of the IOLA image you can see a landing pad and the suggestion of a strut a little distance from IM-1 ..

Posted by: Gavin Eadie Feb 29 2024, 06:04 AM

QUOTE (Gavin Eadie @ Feb 29 2024, 12:46 AM)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Feb 29 2024, 07:51 AM

And my version.

Phil

Posted by: neo56 Feb 29 2024, 01:44 PM

Here is my take in making a panorama out of the fisheye view at contact (click on the picture to browse the 360° panorama):

https://flic.kr/p/2pATyQv

It gives pretty nice results with the other ILO-X WFOV pictures:

https://flic.kr/p/2pATibD

https://flic.kr/p/2pAMk9r

https://flic.kr/p/2pAMoLw

Posted by: Gavin Eadie Feb 29 2024, 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Feb 29 2024, 02:51 AM)

And my version.

Phil

Posted by: JTN Feb 29 2024, 04:03 PM

"​Lunar Surface Day Seven Update" from https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1 (dated 0920 CST = 1520 UTC):

Posted by: Tom Dahl Mar 1 2024, 12:18 AM

QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Feb 28 2024, 10:06 PM)

Posted by: JTN Mar 1 2024, 01:51 AM

One more image posted at the https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1, including an (overexposed) crescent Earth. (https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7c27f7_9c4b6f176abc4642a21aecda5a3e9624~mv2.png)
(Also an implication that it has finally gone dark.)

Posted by: neo56 Mar 1 2024, 08:39 AM

QUOTE (JTN @ Feb 29 2024, 05:03 PM)

Posted by: Olympusmonsuk Mar 1 2024, 04:27 PM

I have identified a few of the features in the last Intuitive Machines last image release, on an LRO image of the IM-1 Odysseus landing site.[attachment=54697:IM_1_features_1.jpg]
Zoom in on the LRO image to see the small identified feature numbers.

Posted by: JTN Mar 1 2024, 05:45 PM

https://investors.intuitivemachines.com/news-releases/news-release-details/intuitive-machines-historic-im-1-mission-success-american (dated yesterday EST); not much new beyond confirming IM-1 "entered standby mode on February 29, 2024".

(But there's another GHY-6 pass scheduled for tonight. Odd.)

Posted by: Phil Stooke Mar 18 2024, 08:24 PM

The Sun has risen at the IM-1 site. Maybe there will be an attempt to revive it.

Meanwhile, this is a very tentative experimental map of its landing site. Unfortunately, none of the descent images we have looked in the right direction to view the surface on which it landed, the the base is a grossly over-enlarged LRO image.

This is subject to change as we learn more.

Phil

Posted by: JTN Mar 28 2024, 09:26 PM

There's an update dated March 23rd on https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1. They listened, but didn't hear anything.