Pathfinder site, for comparison with HIRISE Options

[Nix]

Twin Peaks, Backshell & Parachute, MPF itself -100% crop. (~80% jpeg)

http://www.awalkonmars.com/PSP_001890_1995..._crop100per.jpg

Nico

edit: I just noticed Emily had already provided a somewhat larger crop on the previous page in this thread.

edit2: just for fun, another try at a stereo, based on James' and Doug's efforts.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[ElkGroveDan]

Best thing I could find to overlay it one of these...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA00752.jpg

Good one Doug. I tossed it into Adobe ImageReady for a smoother back and forth.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[tim53]

Well - First bounce, Lander and Backshell tend to form a fairly large triangle of several hundred metres on a side. If there were a little red graph of Pathfinder bounces in the way we saw one for MERA and B, then one could overlay - but I dont' recall anything like that.

The lander bounced in to it's final resting place from the east. Rob thinks the first bounce was to the southeast of the landing site, and has suggested that the "Malin Object" we saw from the ground is airbag cover that came of during an early bounce.

After landing, I located all the bounce marks I could see out from the lander to the east. I've looked for these in the HiRISE image, and can't see them. They would be dark spots, more like Spirit's than Oppy's. They must be gone.

I'm fairly convinced there's two obs as well James - I really don't think that's a projection issue - it's a different picture.

Doug

Nope, there is only one image of the site to date. The earlier attempt was "lost in translation" such that the only coverage that came from the DSN is to the east and west of the lander. Not over the lander.

I think what you're seeing is a combination of jpeg artifacts and processing/projections done to the two versions of the image you're referring to. When I look at the anaglyph posted above, for example, I don't see sensible relief in the surrounding area, which ought to show up in stereo at this scale.

-Tim.

[tuvas]

That's what I thought at first, but they are very different and it looks for all the world like the jp2 is taken from directly above and the jpg from somewhat side on, making the two ramps not appear antiparallel. I'm gonna take some convincing that those aren't two separate images from different angles!

One question: When can we expect colour?

James

I can assure you there aren't two images that were received, the first attempt, as tim stated, was lost with problems with DSN. We received only a few channels, and none of them was with the lander included.

As for color, well, that will come with the next image to finish the stereo, which AFAIK, hasn't yet been assigned. The lander was in RED6, which you're probably aware just missed the color strip.

[Chmee]

Pure speculation: Is the "airbag reflection" @ 9 o'clock immediately next to the lander actually the rover? Conversely, at 3 o'clock there's a light spot within the shadow of the lander which might also be Sojourner. (Disclaimer: I can't visualize the landing bag geometry, so this may well be completely off-base).

(Posted completely in the time-honored tradition of scientific skepticism... )

I have to agree. Sojourner is not obvious in pictures I have seen. The best candidate I can see is the bright patch immediately next to MPL. I know that others have stated it may be the airbag, but it seems far to reflective and large for the small amount of airbag exposed. Wasn't Sojourner programmed to approach MPL if it lost communications? Perhaps it is "snuggled" next to MPL waiting for a signal that never came?

[djellison]

No - there really is a big bit of airbag material - with exposed foil etc - just there.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/ops/81220_full.jpg
See the glare it produces.

See the foil here..
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/ops/81957_full.jpg

Sojourner is never going to be obvious - it's barely at the resolving power of HiRISE and is going to be a very similar colour to the terrain...much like Spirit is today
http://pancam.astro.cornell.edu/pancam_ins..._1_True_RAD.jpg

What we DO see with the HiRISE images is some rocks that appear where we expect them to - and then one about Sojourner that is where we don't expect one, in a place where it's entirely possible Sojourner could have driven to.

The sequence was never onboard to actually circle the lander ( as I used to think ) but infact to return to the lander but simulatanious remain outside a keep-out zone. She would probably (given enough time ) have tried to go around the lander anti-clockwise as a result of that. However - she wouldn't have got too close to the lander as the lasers would/should have stopped that happening.

There's no OBVIOUS sign of Sojourner - but that object that does look out of place - and in a spot that is easy to imagine Sojourner getting to - it's the only real candidate if the old girl stayed 'local'

Doug

[Decepticon]

I'm confused, can someone point to the last known position of the little rover?

[djellison]

If you look at this one..

http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/2007/d...iRISE_annot.jpg

Sojourner was backed up to the rock called Chimp - centered on about -1X, -10Y on that graph.

Doug

[dvandorn]

IIRC, the analysis of the Ares Vallis site and the rocks found in the vicinity of the lander were found to be consistent with transportation and deposition of large rocks via catastrophic flood events. At larger scales, the Ares Vallis region certainly looks to have been the site of catastrophic outflow flooding, though it must have happened a long time ago.

However, it interests me a great deal how MRO reveals that the rocks in the "Rock Garden" seem to be defined be the rim of one of the many, many linearally-alined elongated depressions that make up the terrain in the area. And that a majority of large rocks visible in the MRO image are alined along the rims of these depressions.

If many to most of the rocks in the area were washed there via catastrophic floods, why should they appear preferentially along rim crests? From above, a majority of these "rock gardens" seem to have been the rims of the original depressions, which have since been eroded away to leave blocks of the materials that made up the rims.

Unless the *entire* surface we see here was laid down by catastrophic floods, down to a depth of several meters, then it seems to me that the rims of depressions in the ground ought to be made of the materials that pre-dated the floods. Which means that the surface that was flooded was already made up of rocks with a seemingly wide variety of types and formations.

So, by the process of elimination, we seem to have two different possibilities: either the entire surface at Ares Vallis (and, by extension, at other catastrophic outflow channels on Mars) is made up of rocks and fines deposited there by the flooding event(s), or the original terrain that was scoured down to what we see today was already composed of all different types of rocks, from frothy and andesitic lavas to sedimentary and conglomerate rocks.

Interesting...

-the other Doug

[tedstryk]

If you look at this one..

Sojourner was backed up to the rock called Chimp - centered on about -1X, -10Y on that graph.

Doug

Yep. Here is the last end-of-day view (planet day 80), as well as the last view from Sojourner on planet day 81. Planet day 83 would be the last regular day of the MPF mission, and Sojourner had just finished up its APXS study of Chimp, but had not yet moved.

[Phil Stooke]

Replying to dvandorn,

Another possibility is that the old water-deposited stuff (from events more like giant mudflows than rivers, and some espouse a glacial origin as well) has subsequently been peppered with many small impacts, and the blocks are really just ejecta. I never believed the identification of imbrication in these rocks. So I think Rock Garden is a small blocky crater rim.

Phil

[Guest_jumpjack_*]

Sojourner is never going to be obvious - it's barely at the resolving power of HiRISE and is going to be a very similar colour to the terrain...much like Spirit is today
http://pancam.astro.cornell.edu/pancam_ins..._1_True_RAD.jpg

there are several things I can't understand:
- why aren't Spirit and Opportunity experiencing same dusty-doom of MPF? (or vice-versa) Isn't MPF landing site not windy at all?
- are currently Spirit panels in such a condition of the linked image???
- If NASA knew dust would at last stopped solar panels from working, why didn't they design movable solar panels, which can be folded in the original position and the unfolded again? This wuould have easily removed dust from panels surface!

And, where can I find an annotated image of MPF landing site?

[Guest_jumpjack_*]

I found a Sojourner route map:
http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/roverview/table.html

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Guest_jumpjack_*]

And here it is a full annotated panorama (from same site above).

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[tedstryk]

Pathfinder was killed by battery failure. They tried to get it to run directly off the solar panels (rather than from the solar panels to the battery), so that it could at least work during the day, but it didn't work. When Viking 2 died, it was similar - in this case, the RTG was still putting out power, but the battery failed. Power went from the RTG to the battery to the spacecraft, and attempts to run directly off the RTG failed. If you look at pathfinder's pictures of the solar panels taken just before it failed, they still look clean. BTW, that pan has some labels, although some features, like mini-matterhorn, located at the rightmost part of the pan, next to the edge of the airbag, are not listed.