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Plutoids: a new class of objects beyond Neptune, Astronomy, politics or damage control
Classification of Pluto
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dmuller
post Jun 12 2008, 09:44 AM
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Article on the BBC website: 'Non-planet' Pluto gets new class
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7449735.stm
QUOTE
Now an IAU committee, meeting in Oslo, has suggested that small, nearly spherical objects orbiting beyond Neptune should carry the "plutoid" tag.

It also goes on to say that not everybody is too excited about it:
QUOTE
"It's just some people in a smoke-filled room who dreamed it up," he told the Associated Press. "Plutoids or haemorrhoids, whatever they call it. This is irrelevant."



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tanjent
post Jun 16 2008, 05:18 PM
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I don't understand why this topic provokes so much emotion.

The more different space objects we identify and interact with,
the more details we will want to take into account when we try to categorize them.
And for the above mentioned continuum reasons, none of the categorizations will ever be a perfect fit.
But this shouldn't matter to the people here on this site who are already well aware of the
imperfections of whatever classification system is in force. When those imperfections become too
constraining, the system will be modified again, but it is only ever going to be an heuristic convenience.

It seems we are all up in arms about how OTHER people will be confused - children, politicians,
the man and woman on the street. How will the imperfections of the labeling scheme warp their
understanding of the underlying science? The incentive to learn more probably comes from the
subject matter itself. Some of those other people will push on to learn more and others won't. This
seems quite normal and not especially deplorable, since many of those who continue to rely on an
oversimplified and somewhat inaccurate view of outer space will obtain a deeper understanding of some
other area in which they become the experts who are best in touch with the underlying reality. I don't
worry that interested children are going to be stopped in their tracks by Pluto's demotion.

Disclaiming any serious knowledge of linguistics, I am still not too surprised that languages evolve.
All the heated debate is entertaining and certainly not harmful, and the fact that some organized group of experts is
trying to direct the process probably inspires a "Who do they think they are?" response, but ultimately the
constructs that survive will be those we find convenient to use. And after a while they won't seem so convenient
any more and something else will come along. "Plutoid" will do for now, but certainly not forever.
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JRehling
post Jun 18 2008, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (tanjent @ Jun 16 2008, 10:18 AM) *
I don't understand why this topic provokes so much emotion.

The more different space objects we identify and interact with,
the more details we will want to take into account when we try to categorize them.
And for the above mentioned continuum reasons, none of the categorizations will ever be a perfect fit.


However, calling this application of nomenclature "not a perfect fit" is like calling Mariner 1 "not a total success."

The great contribution of the IAU's effort to name these various classes of body is that one day it will be remembered as a failure in nomenclature the way that cold fusion is remembered as a failure in application of the scientific method.

"Never let scientists name your product."

The interesting thing is that star nomenclature has proceeded fairly smoothly. Supernova, white dwarf, neutron star, pulsar, black hole -- all of these terms were examples where the scientists basically got it right on the first try. But even before 2006's controversy, we had "plutinos", "KBOs", and "TNOs". Now we have "dwarf planet", "plutoid", and two controversial attempts at "planet". I think part of the answer is that people didn't previously have any concept of any of those star types until scientists theorized or discovered them. The terms described new things; they didn't replace terms.

But we've had fully six terms for denoting Pluto (not counting "Pluto" and "minor planet") with one of those terms given two new definitions. Any way you slice or dice it, you can tell when a good job is being done and when a poor job is being done, and seven categories for Pluto is not a good job being done. It's horrendous.
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Posts in this topic
- dmuller   Plutoids: a new class of objects beyond Neptune   Jun 12 2008, 09:44 AM
- - akuo   While classified as a plutoid, Pluto is still a dw...   Jun 12 2008, 09:51 AM
|- - David   Plutoid, wow. That must have taken a lot of thoug...   Jun 12 2008, 12:36 PM
- - hendric   Jovoids? *ba-dump dump ching*   Jun 12 2008, 01:49 PM
- - ngunn   Ganymoids?   Jun 12 2008, 02:11 PM
- - hendric   Galleoids? Does that make ring particles saturnoi...   Jun 12 2008, 02:18 PM
|- - Greg Hullender   QUOTE (hendric @ Jun 12 2008, 07:18 AM) G...   Jun 13 2008, 03:29 AM
|- - mchan   The ones there are classed as hemorrhoids.   Jun 13 2008, 04:22 AM
- - climber   If they rotate in 24h40 minutes, they'll be So...   Jun 12 2008, 03:14 PM
- - Decepticon   LOL   Jun 12 2008, 07:13 PM
- - laurele   They actually are considering calling Ceres a ...   Jun 12 2008, 09:55 PM
- - volcanopele   I propose Ioids, terrestrial bodies with silicate ...   Jun 12 2008, 10:44 PM
- - hendric   Duh, we're missing the most obvious one: Eart...   Jun 13 2008, 02:22 AM
- - Stephen   A space.com article on the issues gives a few quot...   Jun 13 2008, 04:26 AM
- - nprev   Oh, God....here we go again. ...time to get out ...   Jun 13 2008, 04:54 AM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 13 2008, 05:54 AM) The...   Jun 13 2008, 06:36 AM
||- - pumpkinpie   QUOTE (Stu @ Jun 13 2008, 01:36 AM) And t...   Jun 13 2008, 06:23 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 13 2008, 02:54 PM) Oh,...   Jun 13 2008, 07:12 AM
|- - tedstryk   Would asteroids in the Hermian region (near the or...   Jun 13 2008, 12:55 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jun 13 2008, 04:55 AM) ...   Jun 13 2008, 05:48 PM
- - Stu   No "soapbox" Stephen, just concern, frus...   Jun 13 2008, 07:54 AM
- - dvandorn   I don't know, Stu -- there was a delightful Py...   Jun 13 2008, 08:16 AM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 13 2008, 09:16 AM) ...   Jun 13 2008, 08:28 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (Stu @ Jun 13 2008, 06:28 PM) To mo...   Jun 13 2008, 11:02 AM
- - dvandorn   Oh, and Advil is an American brand name for ibupro...   Jun 13 2008, 08:18 AM
- - nprev   Stu, I see your point. Did not mean to be dismissi...   Jun 13 2008, 11:20 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 13 2008, 12:20 PM) des...   Jun 13 2008, 12:34 PM
|- - TheChemist   QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 13 2008, 02:20 PM) I d...   Jun 13 2008, 01:04 PM
- - tasp   Instead of "Plutoid", how about using th...   Jun 13 2008, 03:29 PM
- - alan   Forum Guidelines QUOTE 1.9 Other banned subjects ...   Jun 13 2008, 04:26 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (alan @ Jun 13 2008, 12:26 PM) ...i...   Jun 13 2008, 04:31 PM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (alan @ Jun 13 2008, 05:26 PM) Lets...   Jun 13 2008, 10:10 PM
- - hendric   Stu, Here's an idea on how to explain it. F...   Jun 13 2008, 05:39 PM
- - laurele   "Is this a joke?" It depends on what th...   Jun 13 2008, 06:03 PM
- - ElkGroveDan   As Alan noted above, we need to get away from this...   Jun 13 2008, 07:06 PM
- - SpaceListener   I like tto Stephen proposal with the word thingy.B...   Jun 13 2008, 07:30 PM
- - Greg Hullender   Say, did I tell you guys I'm taking Linguistic...   Jun 13 2008, 10:59 PM
- - imipak   Everything's an object. And they expose publi...   Jun 13 2008, 11:25 PM
- - David   I have long since ceased to care whether Pluto is ...   Jun 14 2008, 05:10 AM
- - nprev   Hell with it; Tasp is right. We marklars have spen...   Jun 14 2008, 06:08 AM
- - Stu   Just to put things in perspective... Found a refe...   Jun 14 2008, 06:17 AM
- - dvandorn   Stuart! You *cannot* seriously tell me you...   Jun 14 2008, 06:25 AM
- - nprev   ...Stu, that's from a now-defunct US cartoon s...   Jun 14 2008, 06:28 AM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 14 2008, 07:28 AM) Thi...   Jun 14 2008, 06:35 AM
- - Stu   Ah... "Animaniacs"... yes, heard of thos...   Jun 14 2008, 06:30 AM
- - J.J.   Can't add much other than to say that I totall...   Jun 14 2008, 01:45 PM
- - Betelgeuze   I like the term 'dwarf planet', what I don...   Jun 15 2008, 12:13 PM
- - Greg Hullender   Nearly all English words are a bit fuzzy -- even s...   Jun 15 2008, 02:02 PM
- - tanjent   I don't understand why this topic provokes so ...   Jun 16 2008, 05:18 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (tanjent @ Jun 16 2008, 10:18 AM) I...   Jun 18 2008, 06:53 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 19 2008, 04:53 AM) ...   Jun 19 2008, 08:23 AM
|- - Greg Hullender   QUOTE (Stephen @ Jun 19 2008, 01:23 AM) ....   Jun 19 2008, 02:44 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 19 2008, 07:4...   Jun 19 2008, 05:28 PM
|- - Greg Hullender   Sigh. People are getting too serious again; it...   Jun 19 2008, 10:32 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 19 2008, 10:3...   Jun 20 2008, 01:35 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Note that there was a small fuss when they renamed...   Jun 17 2008, 03:50 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 16 2008, 10:5...   Jun 17 2008, 04:24 AM
- - Stu   Not another comment on the basic debate, I'm d...   Jun 17 2008, 07:33 AM
- - alan   I noticed this in the IAU's press release QUOT...   Jun 19 2008, 05:13 AM
- - peter59   In my opinion, IAU should only officially sanction...   Jun 19 2008, 08:13 AM
- - laurele   "Since this is another "argument from li...   Jun 19 2008, 05:02 PM
- - dvandorn   Honestly, if you're hung up on making differen...   Jun 19 2008, 06:35 PM
- - tedstryk   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 19 2008, 06:35 PM) ...   Jun 20 2008, 01:40 AM


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