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Launch vehicle, Atlas V
Redstone
post Jun 3 2006, 01:19 PM
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NASA has decided to use the Atlas V, with 4 strap-on solid rocket boosters to launch MSL. This is the same rocket that launched MRO (no solids) and New Horizons (5 solids).

Cost: $194.7 million, less than half the price of the Titan IV which would have been needed a few years ago.

Rocky Mountain News article

NASA press release
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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post Jun 4 2006, 06:20 PM
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Let's look at some numbers. Here are some figures for vacuum and sea-level specific impulse, which measures engine efficiency (and thrust in metric tonnes). The F-1 was the biggest engine ever built, but it was based on an old-fashion gas-generator cycle:

F-1 (Saturn V) - 304 265 (790 tons)
YF-20B (Long March) - 289 259 (83 tons)

Staged compustion is the current state of the art, and this gives you significantly more thrust per kilogram of fuel. The Proton managed 316 sec. even using less efficient fuels (N2O4 + Dimethylhydrozine). At the time of the F-1, only the Russians had mastered staged combustion design:

RD-253 (Proton) - 316 285 (178 tons)
NK-15 (N-1) - 318 297 (157 tons)
RD-180 (Atlas V) - 338 311 (423 tons)
RD-701 (MAKS) - 415 330 (408 tons)

Today we see the benefits of both staged combustion and liquid hydrogen. The SSME was the groundbreaking technology here, the starting point for all the other cryogenic staged-combustion engines. In the RD-0120, the Russians made some improvements to the SSME which NASA has been studying. It is a simpler design, and is able to achieve combustion stability without complex anti-oscillation dampening chambers. The RS 68 is also a fine engine, designed to be cheap simple and disposable.

RS 68 (Delta IV) - 420 365 (338 tons)
Vulcain (Ariane) - 434 318 (110 tons)
SSME (Shuttle) - 453 363 (232 tons)
RD-0120 (Buran) - 455 359 (200 tons)

For orbital vehicles, it is better to look at the LEO payload, because that depends on the thrust of all the stages and how their sizes have been balanced against one another.

Super-heavy:
Saturn V: 118 tons
N-1: 95 tons (if it had worked)
Energiya: 88 tons

Heavy:
Shuttle: 27.5 tons
Delta 4-H: 25.8 tons
Proton: 21.0 tons
Atlas V: 20 tons (551 config.)
Titan 4: 17.8 tons
Ariane V: 16.0 tons
Atlas V: 12.5 (401 config.)

Long March 2E: 9.2 tons
Soyuz: 7.4 tons
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ugordan
post Jun 4 2006, 06:46 PM
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You're forgetting the engine RD-180 was derived from -- the RD-170 from the Energia strap-on boosters. With twice the thrust of an RD-180, it beats even the mighty F-1 at 800 tons of thrust. Its variant (RD-171) is being used on the Zenit rocket.
IIRC, the F-1 were actually closer to 700 tons of thrust than 800.


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Posts in this topic
- Redstone   Launch vehicle   Jun 3 2006, 01:19 PM
- - dvandorn   This just points out another truth behind the fund...   Jun 3 2006, 03:44 PM
- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Redstone @ Jun 3 2006, 09:19 AM) N...   Jun 3 2006, 06:23 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The Discovery missions are all supposed to use Del...   Jun 4 2006, 01:42 AM
- - RNeuhaus   I would like to learn about the what are limit of ...   Jun 4 2006, 02:13 AM
- - Jim from NSF.com   The "other items" of the launch service ...   Jun 4 2006, 02:55 AM
- - PhilCo126   A reminder to point out that the Atlas V is not th...   Jun 4 2006, 09:34 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (PhilCo126 @ Jun 4 2006, 10:34 AM) ...   Jun 4 2006, 11:28 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (PhilCo126 @ Jun 4 2006, 10:34 AM) ...   Jun 4 2006, 05:37 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (PhilCo126 @ Jun 4 2006, 04:34 AM) ...   Jun 4 2006, 08:48 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 4 2006, 09:48 PM) p...   Jun 4 2006, 09:15 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 4 2006, 02:15 PM) Th...   Jun 4 2006, 11:46 PM
- - DonPMitchell   Let's look at some numbers. Here are some fig...   Jun 4 2006, 06:20 PM
|- - ugordan   You're forgetting the engine RD-180 was derive...   Jun 4 2006, 06:46 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 4 2006, 11:46 AM) Yo...   Jun 4 2006, 07:04 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 4 2006, 08:04 P...   Jun 4 2006, 07:12 PM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 4 2006, 12:12 PM) D...   Jun 4 2006, 07:23 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 4 2006, 03:12 PM) D...   Jun 5 2006, 07:20 AM
- - djellison   In a brief 'still on holiday' pop-head-aro...   Jun 5 2006, 07:41 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 5 2006, 08:41 AM) ...   Jun 5 2006, 08:28 AM
- - DonPMitchell   Thrusts I gave are vacuum thrusts, just for compar...   Jun 5 2006, 08:48 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 5 2006, 09:48 A...   Jun 5 2006, 09:00 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 5 2006, 02:00 AM) A ...   Jun 5 2006, 10:27 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 5 2006, 11:27 A...   Jun 5 2006, 10:47 AM
||- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 5 2006, 03:47 AM) Th...   Jun 5 2006, 11:36 AM
||- - Bob Shaw   Don: I think Mark Wade is normally excellent, but...   Jun 5 2006, 01:03 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 5 2006, 02:03 PM) I...   Jun 5 2006, 01:32 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 5 2006, 02:32 PM) Th...   Jun 5 2006, 08:45 PM
||- - ugordan   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 5 2006, 09:45 PM) S...   Jun 5 2006, 08:53 PM
|||- - Bob Shaw   Gordan: Yup, I see what you mean - I still though...   Jun 5 2006, 09:07 PM
|||- - ugordan   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 5 2006, 10:07 PM) t...   Jun 5 2006, 09:19 PM
|||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 5 2006, 10:19 PM) Wh...   Jun 5 2006, 09:34 PM
|||- - Bob Shaw   Looks like I disremembered the landing sequence to...   Jun 5 2006, 10:16 PM
|||- - ugordan   Bob: In the leftmost image you sent, the drawing ...   Jun 6 2006, 01:28 PM
|||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jun 6 2006, 02:28 PM) Bo...   Jun 6 2006, 02:37 PM
|||- - ugordan   Yep, look at the other cartoon you sent showing th...   Jun 6 2006, 02:44 PM
|||- - Bob Shaw   Gordan: So, the question remains: did it actually...   Jun 6 2006, 02:53 PM
||- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jun 5 2006, 01:45 PM) G...   Jun 5 2006, 10:57 PM
|- - Toma B   QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 5 2006, 12:27 P...   Jun 5 2006, 11:03 AM
- - PhilCo126   Don was right on the unit ( 10 & 9.8 kilogram-...   Jun 5 2006, 04:08 PM
- - Spirit   Hi everybody, I am new to the forum. Here is my f...   Jun 6 2006, 06:15 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (Spirit @ Jun 6 2006, 02:15 PM) Hi ...   Jun 6 2006, 06:31 PM
- - DonPMitchell   Here is a rather fanciful site dedicated to the En...   Jun 6 2006, 07:24 PM


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