Simple question about panoramas, Why must they have ends? Options

[ngunn]

Viewing the latest wonderful Home Plate mosaics prompts a thought that has often occurred to me before. Why isn't it possible to join up the ends of a panorama to allow for continuous panning in either direction? On the face of it this would seem to be a relatively simple thing (hugely less complicated than a full virtual reality package) and highly desirable for 360 degree views, yet it's never done. Can somebody explain to me where the catch lies?

[djellison]

The software to do it. You'd need to make a quicktime VR or other panoramic technology platform product - all of which typically require a commercial product over and above a normal panorama stitching program.

The images themselves are able to do it (see the polar projections) - it's just the means to deliver a 'panable' format that is the stumbling block.

[ngunn]

Thanks Doug. I suppose the next best thing would be extending a flat pano to say 1.5 revolutions. Still I'm surprised that there isn't a cheap-and-cheerful solution that has become routine by now. As you say the data are all there to do it and I can't see why the software required would be other than extremely simple. ('All pixels move one space left except the leftmost which replaces the rightmost - repeat until finger is removed from arrow key' ) I know I'm being totally naive, and possibly UMSF-centred. Presumably there is insufficient interest in panoramas generally among the wider public for the big software companies to provide it as a standard facility.

[paxdan]

MMB is your friend

[stevesliva]

As you say the data are all there to do it and I can't see why the software required would be other than extremely simple. ('All pixels move one space left except the leftmost which replaces the rightmost - repeat until finger is removed from arrow key'

No doubt this could be done with Flash.

In fact...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=f...G=Google+Search

[ngunn]

No doubt this could be done with Flash.

Thanks for posting that link.

Those packages look very interesting and are impressive at what they do. However all the examples I've looked at via that link are doing the much more sophisticated job of perspectival re-projection, so that shapes within the image change as you pan round (and up and down). I'm not surprised the creators of such software expect some income from its use, nor that its main customers are developers and property merchants.

Now I'm a great fan of perspective views (including those posted here and on MMB) when that is what you want in a given situation. However I'd still like the ability simply to stitch the two ends of a 360 degree cylindrical panorama together so I don't hit the buffers when scanning around the horizon. That's such a simple idea I'm surprised it's not a free and generally available picture format. Maybe there is an easy way to do it - if anyone finds one please let me know!

[AndyG]

Hi ngunn,

Give me a link to a panorama you like. My Flash-fingers are flexing!

Andy

[ngunn]

It was James's latest Home Plate one that prompted me to start the thread:
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~jcanvin/mer/index.html#A1325

though in fact our system chokes on the full version so I was looking at half res.

The first time I felt consciously frustrated by panoramas having ends was was when the Husband Hill summit view came out, and it's been bugging me ever since.

[fredk]

My favourite of the qtvr-type panning viewers is FSPViewer. Simple and fast and uses ordinary jpegs rather than special formats.

I understand that that's not what you're after, though. It should be trivial to code an ordinary image viewer (eg Irfanview for windows) to apply "periodic boundary conditions" to identify the left and right ends of an image. No image transformations/distortions would need to be applied. Of course the image would need to be a full 360, (presumably cyllindrical?), for the ends to seamlessly join but that's not a big deal. Let us know if you find a viewer that does this!

[ngunn]

Thanks for your interest fredk. If none of the amazing image experts assembled here come up with a solution then I fear my chances are negligible! However just maybe someone reading this thread will think it a worthwhile project to create some sort of one-click 'panable' link along the lines of the special zoomable viewer provided for looking at the HiRise images. For example it would 'add value' to NASA's own published panoramas at a stroke, and if freely shared (like the images themselves) could also serve the enthusiast community.

[AndyG]

Hi ngunn,

I've stuck together the quarter res. image created by James into a simple Flash package. Left to go left, right to go right.

It's hosted here in an html page. Bewarned - it's over 900kb! Obviously 99% of that is the image, and it might fall over without a preloader on bad/slow connections. If it doesn't work, try downloading the source shockwave file from here (right click and save-link-as) and drop it into a browser - or run it on a standalone player.

I'm only duplicating the image twice in Flash, so there's a slight bump at the transition. A triplication (moving one image while off-stage) would be smoother. But the pan's ok, I think.

I've added 5 ten-degree markers at the page top, with a rough angle measured on the middle one (taking the right edge of Eldorado to be ~north). The seam is at about 189 degrees, really only visible in the sky, so it's a great job, James!

If you right click you get the default flash option to zoom in. I've spent a happy few minutes looking at the horizon as I spin in my spacesuit boots, by getting the ten degree markers the right distance apart at a reasonable viewing range. I think you are right in that continuous panoramas do bring a certain something to the views people are making...it frees up where you want to look at - it is more like being there.

Since I can see the potentials, I may well have to play with this further...

Regards,

Andy

[TheChemist]

Wonderful, thanks !
The being there factor is excellent. A 3D version would make this perfect

[ngunn]

AndyG that works perfectly and the result is brilliant! (Though I got a bit dizzy before I realised I could actually control it!) I hope this becomes standard for 360 degree views. The feeling of freedom it provides comes as a delight and a huge relief.

Thank you thank you thank you . . . .

[jamescanvin]

Nice work Andy!

Next time I'll make sure the gradient of the artificial sky is more vertical.

James

[ngunn]

Since I can see the potentials, I may well have to play with this further...

I'd be interested to know, now that you've done it for one image, how much work will you have to do on each further image you want to 'panify'? Can it be automated so that any image can be opened this way even by computer dummies like me?

Also, while you're 'playing' (to such excellent effect) - once you've got around to all the big MER 360s there are also some inward-looking 360s to consider: the map of Titan for example (or Iapetus, or Ganymede, or Venus, or . . .)