Going To Mogollon..., ...and points South Options

[Holder of the Tw...]

Probably get just a little bit more science done too, even if it's only photographing exposed bedrock close up while in transit. And I'm all for "transit" at this point. The more, the better.

[Nirgal]

Question: does this mean that when the joint motor does fail and the arm can not be stowed anymore, there will be no more long drives for Opportunity? And can we conclude from this that the team has decided that a rover without IDD has less scientific value than a relatively static platform with IDD?

I'm wondering about this too. I certainly hope not. Even without the IDD arm the rover still has all the cameras except the MI, plus the mini-TES. The RAT is at or near the end of its useful life. The whole point of having a rover is to have mobility, so to be mobile should have priority, and the sooner the better.

I agree completely !
when one thinks about it: one single Rover that is capable of doing medium to long distance drives is kind of equivalent to *multiple* static space probes landed on different places of the planet
so in essence 1 Rover = several "Viking-type" static platforms
with this huge, inherent advantage of a Rover (compared to all former static probes) in mind I have been
asking myself why with the MER mission the "static operations" always seemed to have gained clear priority
over the roving (mobile) operations ... and with the new unstowed-drive policy, again, the priority seems clear: take the risk of jeopardazing the whole (mobility of the)rover in favour of the IDD ..
If the priority was on Roving/Mobility instead, the strategy could have been to keep the arm stowed completely for the safest driving possible and make use of the arm much more "parsimoniously" to save it for less frequent, (but potentially more interesting) further targets along the way ...

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

We're a couple of days away from spending 3 months in the same location.

[alan]

Question: does this mean that when the joint motor does fail and the arm can not be stowed anymore, there will be no more long drives for Opportunity? And can we conclude from this that the team has decided that a rover without IDD has less scientific value than a relatively static platform with IDD?
I agree completely !
when one thinks about it: one single Rover that is capable of doing medium to long distance drives is kind of equivalent to *multiple* static space probes landed on different places of the planet
so in essence 1 Rover = several "Viking-type" static platforms
with this huge, inherent advantage of a Rover (compared to all former static probes) in mind I have been
asking myself why with the MER mission the "static operations" always seemed to have gained clear priority
over the roving (mobile) operations ... and with the new unstowed-drive policy, again, the priority seems clear: take the risk of jeopardazing the whole (mobility of the)rover in favour of the IDD ..
If the priority was on Roving/Mobility instead, the strategy could have been to keep the arm stowed completely for the safest driving possible and make use of the arm much more "parsimoniously" to save it for less frequent, (but potentially more interesting) further targets along the way ...

I suppose for some on the science team a rover without the IDD is just a Mars Tourism Rover.

[tacitus]

I suppose for some on the science team a rover without the IDD is just a Mars Tourism Rover.

Well the main objective of the mission is to find evidence of water on Mars. Without the IDD that mission is severely hampered. It's a judgement call they are continually having to make but it seems to me that for now they are still putting the future use of the IDD ahead of zooming off to Victoria.

It's a tough spot to be in, but I suspect they will continue to baby the arm until they're done with Erebus. With a significant vertical rock face within easy reach, they want to make sure they still have the IDD available to examine it. After that, perhaps then they will make Victoria number one priority.

[Bill Harris]

It would be nice to have the IDD instruments, but with reconnaisance geology the primary thing one needs is boots and eyes (ie, a mobile Rover with functional Pancams); the handlens and scratchplate are useful but not essential. Oppy needs to stow the IDD and get to the next outcop...

--Bill

[ElkGroveDan]

It would be nice to have the IDD instruments, but with reconnaisance geology the primary thing one needs is boots and eyes (ie, a mobile Rover with functional Pancams); the handlens and scratchplate are useful but not essential. Oppy needs to stow the IDD and get to the next outcop...

--Bill

I agree with you Bill, but I should point out that without the IDD our science in Endurance would have consisted of a lot of pictures of pretty stripes along the cliffs. The rules of superposition are kind of useless on an alien world without a means to put it all in context. (Wouldn't it be nice if a future mission had an isotopic absolute dating instrument?) Although now that we have some details on Endurance's layers, I'm guessing that we will be able to visually correlate those same layers in Victoria. But of course, the hope is we will find some deeper, older layers we haven't looked at yet. If those layers are chock full of rotini beastie fossils, I'll sure want to have the MI working

I would say though that if the Pancam was the last functioning device on Oppy, it sure would be poetic fate for Steve Squyers.

[neb]

It would be nice to have the IDD instruments, but with reconnaisance geology the primary thing one needs is boots and eyes (ie, a mobile Rover with functional Pancams); the handlens and scratchplate are useful but not essential. Oppy needs to stow the IDD and get to the next outcop...

--Bill

Bill: I am in total agreement. They need to find a way to stow it and get moving again. I doubt we will find anything so totally different that we can't visually understand it. Ben

[Shaka]

Bill: I am in total agreement. They need to find a way to stow it and get moving again. I doubt we will find anything so totally different that we can't visually understand it. Ben

Ahhhh. I think I detect a gauntlet hurled to the dust! Visual vs. Analytical Geology. I love it!
I wonder how that debate might have fared in Gusev Crater - up until we arrived at Home Plate.
I wonder if Victoria will become the HP of Meridiani.

P.S. I hope we are all praying fervently for the recovery of Exploratorium. Where there's life there's hope.

[Toma B]

Question: does this mean that when the joint motor does fail and the arm can not be stowed anymore, there will be no more long drives for Opportunity? And can we conclude from this that the team has decided that a rover without IDD has less scientific value than a relatively static platform with IDD?

This question should be re-posted in "Jim Bell Q'n'a" topic...
I would like to hear answer to that...

[djellison]

If the IDD breaks, then do what can be done with where-ever it is, and then just start driving. If it breaks - so what ,it's expired anyway.

Doug

[hugh]

Well the main objective of the mission is to find evidence of water on Mars.

I suppose so, I just wonder if the fixation on water isn’t compromising other science objectives -like documenting as many types of surface feature as possible. There seems to be a bias operating in favour of studying subtle small-scale features (mostly water deposition evidence) and against studying large scale ones. Not trying to stir the pot but -is the purpose of this mission to look for support for the hypothesis that there was once standing water on Mars, or is it to characterize the surface of Mars as well as possible?

[djellison]

Not trying to stir the pot but -is the purpose of this mission to look for support for the hypothesis that there was once standing water on Mars, or is it to characterize the surface of Mars as well as possible?

Unquestionably the former.

Don't confuse scientific aspirations with engineering limitations. What the scientists would like to do is not always possible.

Doug

[jvandriel]

A panoramic view of Mogollon.

Taken on Sol 734 with the L2 pancam.

jvandriel

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Bill Harris]

They need to find a way to stow it and get moving again.

I can see the rationale for their current actions: the IDD may fail soon and become history, so they are trying to get most detailed information on the wonderful sedimentary structures while they can. But Jimminy Cricket, we've been at this site forever-and-a-day and we need to get to the next outcrop which might well be the Holy Grail of this region.

...is the purpose of this mission to look for support for the hypothesis that there was once standing water on Mars, or is it to characterize the surface of Mars as well as possible?

I'd say that they are (or should be) studying the Geology to find evidence of water.

--Bill