MSL landing sites Options

[vjkane]

With the expectation that MSL will eventually fly, Science published an article on the down selection of MSL sites at the recent workshop. Excerpts follow:

Culture Wars Over How to Find an Ancient Niche for Life on Mars
Richard A. Kerr
In deciding how to do that [maximize science], most attendees aligned themselves with one of two parties. Spectroscopists, who find martian minerals from orbit by their distinctive spectral colors, tended to favor sites that beam strong spectral signatures of rock altered by water. Geologists, by contrast, preferred sites whose geological forms speak most eloquently of past water pooling on the surface.

Leading spectroscopists had proposed two of the seven landing sites still in the running (Science, 9 November 2007, p. 908) because the sites simply screamed "water!" to them... Bibring advocated landing on the highlands above Mawrth Vallis, a site blazing with the spectral colors of water-related minerals... For similar reasons, John Mustard of Brown University and colleagues argued for landing in Nili Fossae, a great crack in the martian crust from which MSL could drive into a side canyon where many of the half-dozen aqueous minerals of the region outcrop.

[Geologists, however, weren't convinced.] In the case of Mawrth, was the source of the clays sediment that washed into a lake? Was it volcanic ash that fell from the sky? Was it crustal rock altered by hot springs?

...many geologists favored landing in 67-kilometer-wide Eberswalde Crater. "It's the best delta on Mars," meaning a river must have flowed into a lake in Eberswalde, dropping its load of sediment on entering the still water... Other favorites of geologists were Holden Crater, another likely crater lake with layered, clay-bearing deposits but no true delta, and Gale Crater, whose 5-kilometer-high mound of layered deposits boasts a variety of water-related minerals, although the origin of the mound is uncertain.

[Del Palmer]

JPL announces final 4 candidates:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-219

They are:

- Gale
- Eberswalde
- Holden
- Mawrth

[ElkGroveDan]

Is this really news? or did I miss something? I had a sense that those were the finalists anyway.

[mcaplinger]

Is this really news?

There were seven sites coming out of the third landing site workshop, and three of these were eliminated on 5 Nov, so I'd say that this counts as news.

http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landingsites/index.html

[BrianL]

JPL announces final 4 candidates:
- Gale
- Eberswalde
- Holden
- Mawrth

Apparently, final might be too strong a word. This from Ted Stryk's article in Emily's blog:

There will be a call for new sites utilizing new data; if any beat the four candidates significantly, they could be selected. Final site selection will be about six months before launch.

Boy, that would be like parachuting in a new contestant halfway through Survivor. Somebody has got to be bummed.

[Phil Stooke]

Not really! It only makes sense to take advantage of the deluge of new data, especially CRISM and HiRISE. Why stick to the old list if a really compelling new one turns up? It would have to be really good to get on the list.

Phil

[HughFromAlice]

Just a thought.....

In the light of the MSL mission statement 'Mars Science Laboratory is a rover that will assess whether Mars ever was, or is still today, an environment able to support microbial life. In other words, its mission is to determine the planet's "habitability." ' at http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/overview/ and 'a growing awareness of potential, widespread mud volcanism in the lowlands of Mars' which has the potential to bring to the surface a lot of interesting chemicals - even that associated with microbial life forms if such life is/were to have existed http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1034.pdf and 'the features could be mud volcanoes but may also be sedimentary remnants from retreating glaciers. However, either way, the presence of fine grained clays in the deposits would be ideal locations to look for organic molecules, "like amonia and proteins." ' http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2009/03...es-on-mars.html

And that a lot more could be discovered about this during the next few years before the final landing site decision will be taken...............

That a 'is still today' mud volcano type site could make an outside run in the final straight to challenge the late Amazonian phylosillicate sites. Worth watching!

[centsworth_II]

... a 'is still today' mud volcano type site could make an outside run in the final straight to challenge the late Amazonian phylosillicate sites. Worth watching!

It's a high stakes gamble: On one hand, investigating material ejected from below the surface may reveal evidence of current life. On the other hand, the amorphous dried mud ejecta may reveal no signs of current life and we would have lost the opportunity to investigate the rich history that would be revealed in layered phylosillicate sites. A history of an ancient, more Earth-like Mars.

[HughFromAlice]

It's a high stakes gamble:

You're right! It is and I respect your opinion! That's why it's an outside run and we'll need to know a lot more to tip the risk/reward balance in its favour before giving up on those millions and millions of years of layered history. But I think of the risk levels in the Apollo program - particularly Apollo 11 - and then also, what an utterly amazing prize if evidence of life were to be discovered!

If only HiRise could priority search and find a mud volcano or two near some significant phylosillicate deposits................unlikely, but...........

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

In 2000 Nasa choose to expand the envelop for MER 2003 Mission in 30% to have two roover before one previously decided.
Now the budget of MSL is over 2 Billions, so with maybe 700 millions more we could have second MSL to launch in 2013, so a back up MSL in case of failure of launch, or landing of the MSL 2011, or a second site to explore in Mars...so sad that nasa don't think about this possibility.
And now with the 2,5 billions that senate want to give to Nasa for have shuttle program continuing in 2011, we can have 3 more MSL, so the possibily to explore 4 sites with a launch in 2011, another in 2013 and two in 2016 (with planet Mars in a most favourable situation).
I know, i known... i'm dreaming .
PS: Sorry for my bad english.

[djellison]

I know, i known... i'm dreaming .

You are. There is simply not the money to do what you talk about. You also talk about the space shuttle - that is a banned subject on this forum.

[Cruzeiro do Sul]

You are. There is simply not the money to do what you talk about. You also talk about the space shuttle - that is a banned subject on this forum.

Sorry to citing the space shuttle, it was only to say how to landing in the 4 landing sites, where the money could came from.
More realisticly, i hope the other space agencies could launch their own mission to explore the other three sites that MSL will not go, begining by the Europoean Exo-Mars Mission.
One question: would it be possible for the Mid -Rover Mission, that it was one time estudied, be capable to go to theses sites?

[RonJones]

I know the sites of the potential mud volcano that were recently reported differ from the sites of the methane venting reported earlier, based on ground based observations by a team led by Michael Mumma of the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and as reported in New Scientist (as quoted below):

“We observed and mapped multiple plumes of methane on Mars, one of which released about 19,000 metric tonnes of methane,” team member Geronimo Villanueva of the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC, said in a statement.

“The plumes were emitted during the warmer seasons, spring and summer, perhaps because ice blocking cracks and fissures vaporised, allowing methane to seep into the Martian air,” he added.

One of the three regions is centred on a rift called Nili Fossae, which had until late last year been considered as a possible landing site for NASA’s one-tonne rover, the Mars Science Laboratory, which is set to launch in 2011.

The two other hotspots, each some 1000 kilometres away, have different geologies.

One centres on the southeastern region of the volcano Syrtis Major. The other is a flatter, cratered region called Terra Sabae.

However, a search for potential mud volcanos near the sites of the reported methane vents might produce interesting results and perhaps identify a potental landing site for a future mission (MSL or later).

[Nomadd22]

In 2000 Nasa choose to expand the envelop for MER 2003 Mission in 30% to have two roover before one previously decided.
Now the budget of MSL is over 2 Billions, so with maybe 700 millions more we could have second MSL to launch in 2013, so a back up MSL in case of failure of launch, or landing of the MSL 2011, or a second site to explore in Mars...so sad that nasa don't think about this possibility.
And now with the 2,5 billions that senate want to give to Nasa for have shuttle program continuing in 2011, we can have 3 more MSL, so the possibily to explore 4 sites with a launch in 2011, another in 2013 and two in 2016 (with planet Mars in a most favourable situation).
I know, i known... i'm dreaming .
PS: Sorry for my bad english.

Don't forget to budget for some really long extension cords. There's no more Plutonium 238 available for RTGs.

[gpurcell]

Don't forget to budget for some really long extension cords. There's no more Plutonium 238 available for RTGs.

They are restarting production, finally:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30621668/