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Posted by: tuvas Oct 23 2006, 05:14 AM

I assume most of you know about the http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/HiBlog/, but I thought I'd mention a few things, and ask if there's anything you'd like to see.

For an update, the process that HiRISE images are processed has been corrected. Come to find out, I didn't know the last steps very well, starting at step 12 things have changed somewhat, they are alot more accurate now.

Anyways, I hope you all enjoy it. I'll expect I'll post something about HiWeb when it enters beta testing, which should be sometime fairly soon (HiWeb is the program that is used for target identification, it will be opened to the general public as soon as it's been made secure.) Other than that, well, we'll just have to wait and see what goes on.

Posted by: djellison Oct 23 2006, 07:40 AM

One thing that made me go "eh?" is ", two for each of the 14 CCD"

I can understand one channel - the image data....is the other channel just housekeeping data or there more to it that that?

Doug

Posted by: tuvas Oct 23 2006, 04:22 PM

Actually, the two channels contain about half of the data from the CCD. Don't ask me why it's set up like that, but each contains half of the image. I've made the correction on the HiBlog to reflect that more accurately.

Posted by: MarkL Oct 23 2006, 05:10 PM

Thank you very kindly for putting HiBlog up. I first found out about it on this site, and have been checking it regularly since. The RSS link is especially useful for updates.

It is valuable and insightful to have this type of informal point of contact with the HiRise team. It is an incredible instrument and deserves as much exposure as possible so everyone with an interest can share in the experience. Please keep it going as I am sure many folks are keen to know what is going on. Here are some things I'd like you to discuss:
What's happening during conjunction at HiROC.
What targets are coming up?
When will the first stereo images be acquired and released, and at what resolution?
How will the public targeting process work?
How accurate have you found the instrument pointing subsystem to be? Seems bang on so far.
Are there any unusual pointings planned (eg. far off nadir, or downtrack)?
How has the CRISM team (and others) been using the HiRISE results?
How have you benefitted from the context and color imagers?
What type of image processing are you doing?

Thanks again for providing a terrific and interesting resource!

Posted by: tuvas Oct 23 2006, 05:37 PM

Let me just tell you a few. First of all, there is a post about what's happening during Conjunction, it's the one right below the post about how HiRISE images are released.

No information about future targets can be posted, sorry folks. All I can really say is that among the first targets will likely be most of the landers who were sucessful, which helps with calibration, and Phoenix canadate landing sites. I'm sure we'll get alot of other interesting things as well, stay tuned. We would really hate to get the public excited about something, and find that some kind of error caused it all to go away, forcing us to take another picture. Imagine if we had announced that we were taking a picture of Oportunity, only to find that there was a gap right where Oportunity was... It'd have been a bit ugly. So, the bottom line is, future picture locations can't be announced to the general public.

More information will be posted about HiWeb when it gets closer to it's release. HiWeb is the system by which the public will be able to request picture locations.

What do you mean, what type of image processing are we doing?

We've seemed to be within maybe 50 meters on the ground of our target, perhaps even closer, I haven't done the figures. But they do appear to be pretty much right on, I'm sure it's nothing more than that.

Posted by: MarkL Oct 24 2006, 01:52 PM

From my point of view, anything posted on HiBlog is like manna from heaven. Even for MER which has set a high bar for excellence in public outreach and access, details of the planning and activities going on on the inside are scarce, until we get a nugget in Steve's blog, or read the official sol reports once released months afterward.

I would like a bit more detail about present activities. Like what is the team talking about re: instrument performance, data volume, communication, commanding.

In terms of image processing, I was hoping again for more detail. For example, the colours in the Victoria image are incredible, but how were they derived from spacecraft data? It's obviously a bit of an art form to interpolate for the missing wavelengths, so some thoughts on that process would be interesting. There's plenty of time for this to develop in the blog though.

I can understand why you would not want to discuss future sites to be imaged. The element of surprise worked well to develop interest in the spectacular Victoria image. Any general remarks though are appreciated. I personally think it would be great if scientists and engineers on publicly funded missions were as open as possible with the public without worrying about small mess ups. Your blog takes us closer to that ideal.

In any event, the blog is a great complement to the mission and I hope you are able to continue it as long as the instrument is sending back data. Thanks again.

Posted by: Nix Oct 24 2006, 03:17 PM

I think we'll get enough information once the mission is really 'on its way' MarkL. The people behind the scenes probably have enough work as it is right now, guiding everything succesfully, and I can imagine there's little time left to devote to public info right now.

We've had a lot of data ALREADY from MRO, hats off to that.

Nico

Posted by: MarkL Oct 24 2006, 04:21 PM

Maybe you're right Nico, but I haven't heard that from Tuvas. I have though heard exactly the same thing repeated many times over many different missions. The HiRISE blog goes against that trend though. They have shown a real interest in putting more information out and making the mission very accessible to the public. So we should talk about what we'd like to see and know about. I'm sure they will still have the time to run the investigation smoothly.

Posted by: tuvas Oct 24 2006, 07:47 PM

Something I should probably tell you about the HiBlog is that virtually everyone who has posted (Except for the HICommander) is under the age of 30. We are all really quite busy, more stuff wil come, trust me on that one. The difference is those of us who are younger have grown to expect to get more from online sources, and thus we provide them. Still, we will try to post at least somewhat often to let you folks know what is going on, but now is a really busy time around here...

Posted by: Julius Oct 25 2006, 12:09 PM

I'm 35;are you suggesting I'm too old for this stuff!!?

Posted by: MarkL Oct 25 2006, 05:15 PM

Whatever you guys can manage to get on the HiBlog is well received. There's never enough time in the day to do stuff like this, but hopefully it helps to know that it really is appreciated.

Posted by: RichardLeis Oct 27 2006, 10:26 PM

Under 30? Actually, more than half of us posting on HiBlog are over 30. But thanks!

Posted by: RichardLeis Oct 27 2006, 10:42 PM

You don't even know how much that helps. :0) The link to this topic has been making the rounds here at HiROC this afternoon and we are all thrilled and delighted. At a meeting this morning our operations manager mentioned that he hopes we continue updating HiBlog because he can tell from forum he has come across (maybe this one?) that people are responding positively.

Posted by: tuvas Oct 27 2006, 11:00 PM

I guessed wrong then... Still, most of the posters are under 35, and almost all under 40... Right?

Posted by: djellison Oct 27 2006, 11:02 PM

I think that we're beginning to see a new generation and new genre of outreach for spaceflight that goes beyond the normal. Blogs, Podcasts, automated imagery pipelines. Some missions ( and fortunately an increasing number ) are embrasing this technology fully, sharing not just the headline results of a mission or an instrument - but going to the trouble of sharing the experience and the adventure of being a part of such a project.

As I mentioned in my glog week, HiRISE is billed as the peoples camera, and so far, on all fronts, the people approve. For going above and beyond the call of duty and taking enthusiasts, HiRISE gets my thanks, and the UMSF seal of approval....if there was such a thing

Doug
(PS - I think we had a "how old" or "who are you" or "what do you do" thread at some point....in the dark corner of the community chit chat forum somewhere - the 'sweet spot' is 25-40 basically. )

Posted by: ElkGroveDan Oct 27 2006, 11:08 PM

Not sure there's been a survey, but my thumbnail guess from the people I do know here, I'd say wrong again.

Posted by: odave Oct 27 2006, 11:15 PM

That would be http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=881&view=findpost&p=8698

Posted by: tuvas Oct 27 2006, 11:21 PM

Sorry, I was refering to the HiBloggers, not this form... Of course, I've realized it now, most of the people here are under 40, and the older ones all have super important jobs, so... They are just plain busy... I might mention that I'm the youngest of the HiBloggers, the only undergraduate that I know of, and the youngest in age as well...

Posted by: RichardLeis Oct 27 2006, 11:42 PM

I'm pretty sure most of us are under 120...

Ya, I think most of the HiBloggers are under 40.

Posted by: RichardLeis Oct 27 2006, 11:50 PM

These are opportunities that simply did not exist even 5 years ago. I attended a Geology event a few months ago in which the scientists joked about reaching out to the public via blogs. If only they would! True, blogs can often be inane (chocolate cake, anyone?) but they can also be used for on-the-fly and timely distribution of information. They can also be used to tell different stories than just technical ones.

I think the interest here at HiRISE in wikis, blogs, podcasts, and other recent technologies began with younger team members, but as the usefulness of these tools were demonstrated, much of the rest of the team has adapted well. And the interest may have been based more on individual passion rather than age.

Just like everyone else, we at HiRISE are being affected by unprecedented rapid progress in technology, from our cutting-edge high resolution camera to our office productivity and public outreach tools.

Posted by: djellison Oct 28 2006, 08:23 AM

I've noticed a fair few registrations from lpl.arizona.edu - it's nice to have people prepared to 'spread the knowledge', it's a credit to a mission or an instrument team. HiRISE is going to produce so much, hopefully for so long, that it'll need a lot of eye to catch all the interesting features...hopefully this bunch of reprobates will be a part of that.

Doug

Posted by: helvick Oct 28 2006, 08:35 AM

Why thank you, Sir. Reprobate #220 ready to report for duty if ever required. ;-)

Posted by: tuvas Oct 28 2006, 04:08 PM

Hmm, I wonder how many of them are from HiRISE... There's only about 20-30 of us here at HiROC (Roughly, although the number is increasing it seems...), there is alot of people for other missions though. Phoenix obviously has alot, Cassini, well, there are tons, there's a few with the rovers. I'm sure there are others as well, in addition to quite a few who work with terrestrial observations of planetary bodies, including astroids planets, and comets. I'm sure there are others as well;-) LPL really does do alot for space systems;-)

Posted by: tuvas Oct 30 2006, 11:08 PM

There's an update on the HiBlog, it takes about the HOGG (Don't forget the the), and HIPHOP, among others. I think all of the HiBloggers have their picture up except for me... Oh well.

Posted by: volcanopele Oct 30 2006, 11:46 PM

LOL!! I was right about who HiCommander is.

Posted by: tuvas Oct 31 2006, 12:03 AM

I had always thought it was him, then I just asked him (As we are both software guys, well, there isn't that many of us...)

For your entertainment, here's some other fun names from HiRISE. HiCat, HiDog, HiEST, and HiStud. Maybe I'll explain them later.

Posted by: RichardLeis Oct 31 2006, 04:45 AM

Let us not speculate who is who. Everyone has a different comfort level when it comes to Internet participation. The goal is to educate and entertain with details about what we do at HiRISE.

Posted by: tuvas Dec 8 2006, 06:15 PM

Well, I just posted something else on the HiBlog, a rough status report of what everyone's doing. These days at HiROC are very crazy, but very exciting. It's hard to beleive it's only been a month that we've been in PSP, it feels like an eternity, but in a good kind of way.

Posted by: MarkL Dec 9 2006, 05:22 AM

Thanks as always. The blog is a great source of insight into the human side of what sometimes seems completely mechanical engineering. I hope you are getting lots of readers.

Posted by: djellison Dec 12 2006, 02:27 AM

Another great article - this on HiStitch....

Tell you want I would like to read in the HiBlog - cold hard figures on the size of the downlink for some of these images as a total data product...and how that's best expressed in terms of the length of downlink time needed.

Also - one thing that would be VERY cool - a total image counter....how many images have been taken in total.....and...did you get anything interesting from the ride-along during Deimos calib

I must say - blogs and 'casts of various sorts really do bring this stuff to life for the enthused viewer/reader - kudos to the team for doing it.

Doug

Posted by: tuvas Dec 12 2006, 05:25 AM

If we had a total image counter, then everyone'd know just how many images we haven't released... Although it's a fair bit more than have been released, I'll keep the exact number to myself (Also because it changes every few hours...)

The raw data output for a typical image is in the 1G range, depending on the compression scheme used, and the size of the image. Maybe I'll talk with the uplink team and make sure it's okay, but give some rough figures for the total data output per week, or at least an estimate.

As for interesting stuff in the Deimos cal, well, one might guess if there was anything interesting to post, that it'd have been done already.

Posted by: Mark Rejhon Dec 21 2006, 06:47 PM

Another regular HiBlog reader here.
(That blog needs to be more well known! The regular NASA site is a little dry on MRO updates.)

I am looking forward to JFIF download support. There are often times I want to download just a tiny part of many of these beautiful gigapixel images. It's the first time I've seen JPEG's (non-JPEG2000) easily break a current high end system and forces us to adopt JPEG2000.

I don't think anybody working with the Mars rovers imagined that they would survive long enough to have MRO actually help plan their activities!

I also look forward to photos of crash landed space probes too - Polar Lander, Beagle 2 - I'm sure these are not high priorities right now, but I imagine you've already got these on your HiRISE targetting wishlist :-) I understand their locations may be uncertain (but I do recall semi-conclusive candidate images were taken, with resolution too low to be conclusive, those could simply be retargetted with MRO to confirm...)

EDIT:
- I'd love to see bandwidth statistics. Are you managing to reach multi-megabit speeds with the big dish? How did the team adjust bandwidth towards the end of solar conjunction; what download speeds are you able to achieve right now?

- Also, if you are familiar with the error correcting codecs of MRO, I have additional questions:
... Have MRO engaged Turbo Code (one of the advanced error correction methods available to MRO transmissions, according to specifications) transmissions yet, and how well do they perform?
... Why is the specifications of Turbo Code transmissions lower than the downlink's maximum speed spec (I think I read some figure such as 1.5 megabits per second a couple months ago, correct?
... If these are classified information, I understand, but I always have an interest in networking technologies. To the best of my knowledge, it is the first time that a multimegabit broadband connection to Mars is being successfully established...

Posted by: tuvas Dec 21 2006, 07:15 PM

Thanks for the comments. It's JPIP by the way, not JFIF. HiRISE is re-defining the term "Very Large Image", we've managed to crash numerous hard drives, find RAM problems, countless plugins or programs for viewing JP2 images, network problems, and I don't even know what else, all just here at HiROC. We've gotten these problems mostly taken care of (Except for the problems beyond our control), and things will be better with HiView, but still, it's been quite a ride!

As for finding other spacecraft, well, we will eventually get to taking pictures to try and find MPL and Beagle. Give it some time, and we'll get there...

Posted by: tuvas Jan 25 2007, 03:46 PM

The HiAddict, renamed by GuyMac as HiFan, has been posted to the HiBlog, and there's even a mention of UMSF there.

Posted by: djellison Jan 25 2007, 04:25 PM

HiFive for the kudos

Doug

Posted by: tuvas Feb 20 2007, 01:57 PM

There's a couple of new things up on the HiBlog, one of them being the statistics of the number of images taken. It's actually quite interesting, I highly recommend it.

Posted by: tuvas Apr 10 2007, 03:37 PM

The HiBlog now features two "HiJinks", or April Fools Day jokes done by HiRISE people, including "The Other Face on Mars". Check it out!