MESSENGER takes a family portrait of the solar system |
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MESSENGER takes a family portrait of the solar system |
 Feb 18 2011, 03:53 PM
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#1
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 The Poet Dude  Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60  |
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Feb 18 2011, 04:38 PM
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#2
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 Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
What happened to Mars?
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Feb 18 2011, 04:43 PM
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#3
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 30-January 05 Member No.: 162 |
Extreme right edge.
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Feb 18 2011, 04:43 PM
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#4
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Too small? Too near the Sun? Good question!
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Feb 18 2011, 05:39 PM
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#5
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
What is odd is that they make clear that Uranus and Neptune are in the frames but invisible, while the absence of Mars isn't even acknowledged (Mercury too).
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Feb 18 2011, 05:42 PM
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#6
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Mars is in it...
Full size version from that link from Stu http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/517613m...system_full.jpg Better link is probably Messengers own page http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/scienc...mp;image_id=399 |
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Feb 18 2011, 05:51 PM
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#7
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
QUOTE (tedstryk @ Feb 18 2011, 12:39 PM)  ....the absence of Mars isn't even acknowledged (Mercury too). Poor Saturn. No one noticed that Saturn is not in the "mini" version 
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Feb 18 2011, 06:11 PM
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#8
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Interplanetary Dumpster Diver Group: Admin Posts: 4404 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
Ah, much better.
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Feb 18 2011, 06:13 PM
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#9
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 Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 4763 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Glendale, AZ Member No.: 197 |
What abut Pl....
never mind. -------------------- If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
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Feb 18 2011, 06:38 PM
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#10
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2086 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Very pretty!
It's like the reverse of Voyager 1's last look, except before the main mission begins instead of the end. They probably won't get another chance once in orbit, so best to do it now. |
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Feb 18 2011, 06:42 PM
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#11
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 23-October 04 From: Greensboro, NC USA Member No.: 103 |
Also nice to see the Milky Way and dust lanes to the left of Mars.
-------------------- Jonathan Ward
Manning the LCC at http://www.apollolaunchcontrol.com |
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Feb 18 2011, 06:52 PM
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#12
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 754 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 1700 |
My god -- it's full of stars!
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Feb 18 2011, 06:52 PM
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#13
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 Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Very cool!!!
I'm putting together a poster containing both family portraits. Here's a first draft without any caption yet (working on writing that now). Anybody have any comments or suggestions for improving it?
Attached thumbnail(s)
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 18 2011, 06:55 PM
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#14
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 Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Sweet idea, Emily! Looks good, but it's a bit of a problem to get all that data in one coherent instantly-obvious form...obviously!
 I'll look at it again.EDIT: To a casual not-familiar observer, it's hard to determine which set is from Messenger & which is from Voyager. Is there room to put the orbital sketches adjacent to their respective sets, perhaps at opposite corners diagonally? -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 18 2011, 07:03 PM
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#15
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 555 Joined: 27-September 10 Member No.: 5458 |
Heres the link to the actual full resolution version (non-annotated): http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/images/family_portrait_wac.png (warning:22mb)
Quite an awesome picture. -------------------- |
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Feb 18 2011, 07:33 PM
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#16
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Is this better?
Attached thumbnail(s)
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 18 2011, 07:40 PM
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#17
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Stick a fork in it; it's done!
Perfect, Emily!
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 18 2011, 09:51 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 555 Joined: 27-September 10 Member No.: 5458 |
That's a great comparison Emily; really puts both in perspective very nicely.
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Feb 18 2011, 10:33 PM
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#19
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
Pretty cool mosaic and they get extra points from me for catching the Milky Way.
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Feb 18 2011, 10:46 PM
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#20
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
What a great idea! But the orbit of Neptune looks a bit out of kilter in the lower diagram. Shouldn't it be fairly circular and concentric with the others?
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Feb 18 2011, 10:49 PM
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#21
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3648 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
Nothing wrong with that. Voyager 1 didn't look at the solar system from an infinite distance so this perspective effect is normal. Unlike the MESSENGER graphic which shows the solar system from "above". It's the upper diagram that's technically meaningless.
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Feb 18 2011, 10:50 PM
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#22
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
It's because of the perspective; it widens toward the viewer. Here's the view from the Solar System Simulator.
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Feb 18 2011, 11:05 PM
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#23
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
OK, thanks.
 The (small) inclinations and eccentricities of the orbits must be conspiring with the perspective too. Simplistically I'd expect Saturn-Uranus-Neptune to be approximately evenly spaced on any radius but that's clearly not the case from this viewpoint, even allowing for the perspective. |
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Feb 18 2011, 11:17 PM
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#24
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
The educational value of the poster is becoming rapidly evident from the discussion!
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 18 2011, 11:42 PM
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#25
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
Yes. Clearly I must spend more time on the simulator before I'm allowed on the away team.
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Feb 19 2011, 12:57 AM
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#26
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
I'm with ya, Nigel!
 Heck, the only way I know where I am at any given time is through sensing an acceleration of 9.8 m/sec on the soles of my cheap dolomite feet...EDIT: Not to be a smartass, and I apologize if it came off that way at all. This poster stimulates discussion, and thus is inherently educational.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 19 2011, 03:37 AM
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#27
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1281 Joined: 18-December 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 124 |
That is very awesome Emily! I was just wishing someone would make that....
-------------------- Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!" Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test |
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Feb 19 2011, 03:50 AM
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#28
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
I actually never dreamed I'd see something similar in my lifetime.
We are quite lucky, you know... ...there will be many, many others after us to see such things, and in more detail, but we are the first.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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