ExoMars Options

[Paolo]

This is interesting. If the 2016 orbiter is transferred to a Proton, it could fly a few Mars 96-like landers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15767184

[tolis]

Not a bad idea, if ever there was one. This way, the landers have a good chance of actually
getting to Mars. A russian version of Beagle 2.

Tolis.

[Paolo]

just wondering: the payload of the TGO is stated to be up to 135 kg (http://exploration.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=46475), that of Mars Express was not much less at 116 kg (http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=31022), so why can't they fly a small-medium mission like Mars Express or Odyssey or Global Surveyor instead of flying a heavy one on the Proton?
I understand this would probably require dropping the lander, though...

[djellison]

I understand this would probably require dropping the lander, though...

And assuming they don't - then they need the heavier LV. ( plus, the 2016 window isn't as good as the 2003 one was )

[stevesliva]

( plus, the 2016 window isn't as good as the 2003 one was )

Could not help but LOL at this. And then sigh heavily.

[centsworth_II]

How good will the 2029 window be?

[tolis]

According to this BBC news article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16906740

the US may be pulling out of ExoMars altogether.

[Paolo]

I don't want (and I can't) go into politics and policies, but I think we must really enjoy every single bit of data from MSL and MAVEN, because I fear we will have to wait many many years before the next Mars probe

[tolis]

Well, the situation is perhaps not quite abysmal yet..

If Spirit/Opportunity are indicators of future performance,
Curiosity may be with us until 2020 or later.

Also, with the resources at hand, Europe could certainly fly
*a* mission to Mars in 2016 or 2018 if it wanted to,
for example an orbiter-only mission with perhaps a static lander
along for the ride if Russia could contribute the launch vehicle.

We shall see..

[Eluchil]

Well if the MER's are any indication we have a good chance of enjoying MSL data for quite a while. While I agree that this news, if confirmed, is devastating there is still a reasonable possibility that ESA or NASA can get some type of Mars probe together before the end of the decade. India's ISRO also has a Mars probe in the works and China has mentioned plans to follow up on Yinghuo-1.

If NASA does abandon its commitment to ESA, it does mean the renewed delay and redesign of ExoMars. But it is still to be hoped that the experience European engineers have gained working on its design and construction will ultimately be put to use on a successful Mars mission.

[Paolo]

NASA got on board of ExoMars because ESA alone could not pay the 1 billion euro bill of the original rover mission. Without NASA, there will be no rover mission.
I remain convinced that the highest priority now is a trace gas orbiter, and that could be flown on a cheap mission like MGS or Mars Express.
I think we need to stop here before the admins get angry...

Good idea...[Mod]

[Stuart H]

And assuming they don't - then they need the heavier LV. ( plus, the 2016 window isn't as good as the 2003 one was )

In addition to the 2016 T2 transfer being poor, it arrives during the Global Dust Storm Season (GDSS), so either you
a) wait in orbit for the dust storm to abate, which requires extra fuel or you
design the Lander to survive ie. much thicker aeroshell, stronger structure to manage the greater buffeting etc. all of which reduces the useful payload on the surface.
This is the Italian EDM design approach.

But the question I keep asking ESA is: Why develop a new technology which you will never use for a larger robotic (or manned) lander anyway ?

Stuart Hurst

[Paolo]

ExoMars may not be dead after all Europe still keen on Mars missions
EDL demonstrator to be turned into a longer-lived lander thanks to Russian RTGs and a derivative to land the 2018 rover (this looks like a bad idea to me... if something went wrong in 2016 it would be too late to modify the 2018 lander)

[machi]

Some new informations about ExoMars from ESA's documents.

Two Russian instruments are now planned for orbiter (some instrument for chemistry of atmosphere, neutron detector + dosimeter) and EDM can be powered now by Russian RTG (so much longer life is possible).
New instruments are planned for EDM - camera, LIDAR, neutron spectrometer, fotometric sensors and atmospheric dust detector.

Rover mission in year 2018 is still not clearly specified, but 2018 date is still preferred.

[SFJCody]

As a long lived static lander a seismometer might be a nice addition.