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Rovers - He Or She?
Tman
post Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM
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I'm still confused about the gender of Spirit and Oppy! What the consent about? If Spirit female (so I think) then make it sense to keep quiet about her age and make she younger biggrin.gif

No kidding! I would like to know which personal pronoun (she, her or he, his etc.) I have to use by Spirit's and Oppy's gender definitely? smile.gif


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mike
post Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM
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They're both genderless. Until we create machines that can enjoy sexual intercourse, they must be genderless.
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Deimos
post Jun 21 2005, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE (mike @ Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM)
They're both genderless.  Until we create machines that can enjoy sexual intercourse, they must be genderless.
*


Hardly. "Gender" is originally and primarily (though certainly not exlusively) a grammatical term. In American, British, and I believe more general western European tradition, vessels of exploration are feminine. When the Russians go back to Mars, there may be masculine rovers. For now, each rover is surely"her".

Steady as she goes ...
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dvandorn
post Jun 21 2005, 07:02 PM
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Exactly -- just try telling the French that something must be able to have sex in order to have a gender-specific pronoun. In the Romance languages in general (and French in particular), every single noun in the launguage is assigned either male or female gender -- for instance, a pencil is male, a table is female, etc. The entire structure of the Romance languages depends upon each and every noun having either a male or female "identity." There is no such thing as a genderless pronoun in French.

And you're right, I think only the Russians (at least of the European societies) refer to a ship as "he."

Americans (and, to a lesser extent, the British) have embraced scientific rationalism to the extent that they've tried to distance the English language from such non-rational concepts as a female chair or a male shovel, and I'm sure that more Americans refer to Spirit or Opportunity as "it" than they do "him" or "her"... but there is still enough irrationality to our language that we can safely use feminine pronouns for the rovers.

-the other Doug


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Phillip
post Jun 21 2005, 07:23 PM
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Well, as a French-American, I must point out that it is the rational and logical Germans that went one step further with gender pronouns, using not two but three -- feminine, masculine and neuter. So irrationality is not the culprit.

And as to the statement "There is no such thing as a genderless pronoun in French," may I humbly offer the pronoun "vous" (you, polite or you plural). wink.gif

But I concur in your conclusion that American tradition calls for our dear rovers to be "she."

Phillip
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mike
post Jun 21 2005, 07:36 PM
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Say that the rovers are male or female if you like, but you're wrong. They have no gender. They have no genitalia, people. Shovels aren't male or female either. Bacteria aren't male or female, and they're even capable of self-reproduction. The rovers are neither male or female (an object can be both genders at once, if you really want).
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Posts in this topic
- Tman   Rovers - He Or She?   Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM
- - Nix   Are they not both gals? Nico   Jun 21 2005, 07:43 AM
|- - dvandorn   Technically, of course, they're asexual, and t...   Jun 21 2005, 07:56 AM
- - djellison   Both girls imho Doug   Jun 21 2005, 08:29 AM
- - wyogold   QUOTE (Tman @ Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM)No kiddin...   Jun 21 2005, 09:11 AM
|- - RedSky   QUOTE (wyogold @ Jun 21 2005, 04:11 AM)somebo...   Jun 21 2005, 10:05 PM
- - Tman   If I check between, when looking intimately, I wou...   Jun 21 2005, 09:31 AM
- - mike   They're both genderless. Until we create mach...   Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (mike @ Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM)They...   Jun 21 2005, 06:11 PM
|- - dvandorn   Exactly -- just try telling the French that someth...   Jun 21 2005, 07:02 PM
|- - Phillip   Well, as a French-American, I must point out that ...   Jun 21 2005, 07:23 PM
||- - mike   Say that the rovers are male or female if you like...   Jun 21 2005, 07:36 PM
||- - dvandorn   Yes, English got the concept of neuter pronouns fr...   Jun 21 2005, 07:55 PM
||- - mike   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005, 11:55 AM)Oppy,...   Jun 21 2005, 09:16 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005, 08:02 PM)And y...   Jun 22 2005, 05:58 AM
|- - Borek   QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 22 2005, 05:58 AM)Just w...   Jun 24 2005, 10:56 AM
- - djellison   Moving a few posts   Jun 21 2005, 10:00 PM
- - hendric   Mike, Oh come on, anything that 1. Stops talk...   Jun 22 2005, 02:42 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn)But in a very real sense, these pl...   Jun 22 2005, 05:57 AM
- - djellison   Yup - Vessels of exploration are always female D...   Jun 22 2005, 07:18 AM
- - edstrick   Would it then be: Ms Opportunity and Ms Spirit? ...   Jun 22 2005, 07:31 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 22 2005, 07:31 AM)Would...   Jun 22 2005, 08:33 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005 @ 08:02 PM)Ame...   Jun 22 2005, 08:48 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 22 2005, 01:48 A...   Jun 22 2005, 05:33 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 22 2005, 06:33 PM)...ge...   Jun 22 2005, 08:54 PM
|- - JRehling   There is a wide variety in terms of how compr...   Jun 22 2005, 09:39 PM
|- - helvick   Nice response. The specific "choice" o...   Jun 22 2005, 10:16 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 22 2005, 03:16 PM)For th...   Jun 22 2005, 10:28 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 22 2005, 11:28 PM)Doug ...   Jun 22 2005, 10:36 PM
- - djellison   Hands up - I actually got complaints about this st...   Jun 22 2005, 09:07 AM
- - edstrick   Trigaux said "..... Some among the greatest s...   Jun 22 2005, 09:24 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 22 2005, 09:24 AM)Decad...   Jun 22 2005, 05:19 PM
- - dvandorn   I'm sorry, I guess I haven't stated my poi...   Jun 23 2005, 04:55 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 23 2005, 04:55 AM)As a ...   Jun 23 2005, 07:01 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 22 2005, 09:55 PM)I...   Jun 23 2005, 09:20 AM
- - dvandorn   Very nice analysis, JRehling. I really enjoy the ...   Jun 24 2005, 03:53 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 24 2005, 08:53 AM)Very ...   Jun 24 2005, 05:30 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 24 2005, 12:30 PM)The b...   Jun 24 2005, 06:46 PM
- - tty   Be glad you don't have to learn Swedish. The u...   Jun 24 2005, 08:31 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   what I think is that languages are historical buil...   Jun 25 2005, 06:49 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 24 2005, 11:49 P...   Jun 25 2005, 07:30 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 25 2005, 02:30 PM)...Of...   Jun 25 2005, 09:02 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 25 2005, 02:02 PM)The I...   Jun 25 2005, 10:15 PM
- - Pavel   I don't know about Eskimo, but English has lot...   Jul 4 2005, 11:40 PM


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